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Using FPTP hasn’t prevented narratives on stolen elections…
2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux
- Thread starter Remius
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Yes, a few people have done that, and it dies quickly... Not really what I was getting at.
The system is simple, easy to manage, and easy to understand. Another part is that we a an independent body that oversees the elections, and has one set of rules for all ridings.
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I saw in a paper, a few years ago, in a reputable journal, which suggested that in Canada (federally and provincially):
I know there are other systems but none are as clear and simple as FPTP.
I, personally, like the French system of run off elections but I recognize that turnouts are often low and so on ... but at least the elected members can say 'I got 50%+1 of the votes cast.'
- FPTP rewards the party which which receives the greatest support - often producing majority government with vote counts in the high 30% range;
- FPTP gives the second place party seats that are, roughly, proportional to its vote count; and
- FPTP 'punishes' parties who finish below the top two.
I know there are other systems but none are as clear and simple as FPTP.
I, personally, like the French system of run off elections but I recognize that turnouts are often low and so on ... but at least the elected members can say 'I got 50%+1 of the votes cast.'
Oldgateboatdriver
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But in France, you elect the executive separately from the legislators.
In Canada, in theory, we elect in each riding a Member of Parliament who represents the riding by (1) supporting or not the appointed government (we do not elect the government) and (2) agreeing or not on our behalf to any law the government would wish to see enacted.
Thus, since we have no say on who forms the government (a crown prerogative to appoint anyone it wants), a FPTP form of election for who acts on behalf of the riding can be quite sufficient, as long as they - properly -act to represent the whole riding while in office.
I don't think that our Westminster Parliamentary system of governance would work well if we elected the executive separately as it would negate the power of Parliament to withdraw its confidence to the executive between set elections.
In Canada, in theory, we elect in each riding a Member of Parliament who represents the riding by (1) supporting or not the appointed government (we do not elect the government) and (2) agreeing or not on our behalf to any law the government would wish to see enacted.
Thus, since we have no say on who forms the government (a crown prerogative to appoint anyone it wants), a FPTP form of election for who acts on behalf of the riding can be quite sufficient, as long as they - properly -act to represent the whole riding while in office.
I don't think that our Westminster Parliamentary system of governance would work well if we elected the executive separately as it would negate the power of Parliament to withdraw its confidence to the executive between set elections.
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You're quite right. The origins of our modern Westminster System of responsible (as opposed to representative) governments lie in the 13th century when Simon de Montfort called a new style parliament after the 2nd Barons' War. Progress has been slow, at times, but it has been steady. I regard responsible government as a priceless part of our heritage.
FJAG
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That, IMHO, is what divides us from the Americans.
I know how they got to the dog's breakfast that their election system is ... but, damn! You couldn't have a democracy more prone to manipulation if you set out to design one from the ground up. This next round is going to make January 6th look like a picnic. And the USSC isn't going to be the honest broker one would hope for.
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05 Nov will be spicy. They went hard on the “state checks and balances vs the federal govt” but didn’t realize the 2nd/3rd order effects.That, IMHO, is what divides us from the Americans.
I know how they got to the dog's breakfast that their election system is ... but, damn! You couldn't have a democracy more prone to manipulation if you set out to design one from the ground up. This next round is going to make January 6th look like a picnic. And the USSC isn't going to be the honest broker one would hope for.
Yup. This time around we’re gonna see rogue election officials at county and state level refusing to certify results they don’t like, and things of that nature. Lots of fast legal action and writs of Mandamus to try to compel follow through. Many states have legal mechanisms in place for this, but some don’t. And, especially if Trump loses, a lot of people thinking (and being sold that) this is his/their ‘last chance’. It will be different from last time in how it manifests, but probably still pretty bad.
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And to drag this back to Canada, I’m sure we’ll all be watching for the fallout. Again, thankfully we have a national electoral commission so some of the shenanigans should be averted, but yeah…
Crap, sorry. I missed which thread we were on again.
OldSolduer
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Oh yeah - my late friend is probably having a good chuckle at this can o worms. He detested Trump, but was not an admirer of the current administration.
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CPC is in the lead so I can see why they would want an election sooner. I don’t see where the NDP would get a benefit from leaving the “coalition” though.
Since they’re pushing though, I wonder how confident the CPC is on their chances if they wait until next year…
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Especially with far less money in the bank than either Teams Blue or Red.
Easier to count on what you know now versus hope for later. A lot can happen in a year.
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You don't see the benefit? Right now they're tied to a giant red anchor. If they start talking tough to the Liberals on affordability issues and eventually pull the plug on the agreement, they may be able to position themselves as the CPC alternative and push the LPC to 3rd place.
If they ride this till fall 2025, they risk getting dragged to the depths, especially when all those 2% fixed rate mortgages come up for renewal at 5 or 6% next summer right before the election.
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Except right now they are tanking, looking to lose about a quarter of their seats if the election were held today (according to 338). My understanding is that they are also having a great deal of difficulty in fundraising. Have no money to campaign, and lose 25% of your caucus? Might be better to wait and hope that the horse learns how to sing.
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I don't have any sympathy for their position. That giant red anchor was attached to a beautiful yacht 5 years ago, now it's part of the Titanic.
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Sympathy or not, their calculus is “hold on for another year” or “lose everything now”.
As @brihard said, a lot can happen in a year.
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