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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Supposed to be - BUT Paul Martin said in the election campaign when Harper trashed him at the ballot box:

"The minority will not be dictated to by the majority"

Paul Martin said this. I recall it quite well.
If only someone would promise electoral reform in this country…and follow through… 😉
 
If only someone would promise electoral reform in this country…and follow through… 😉
Everyone complains about the first past the post system but once they are elected and form the government....they change their minds very quickly.
 
Everyone complains about the first past the post system but once they are elected and form the government....they change their minds very quickly.
2015 held such promise…maybe in 2025 Team It’s 2015 will win and finally follow through? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Everyone complains about the first past the post system but once they are elected and form the government....they change their minds very quickly.
And whenever change has been put to referendum, its been voted down.
 
Many years ago, I was an exchange student in Germany and there was a state election.

The next day, I asked my friend whether the CDU or SPD won the local seat.

Him: “They both won.”

Me: 🤨
 
Maybe. Or that confirmation bias makes people believe (or not believe) what the experts are saying.

To be clear - there is rarely a 100% consensus between experts, but there is usually some consensus. Also, on scientific matters, experts can amend their views based on new evidence - FAFO is literally the scientific method.

I trust 'experts' I know. I have finished carpenter friend, when I need help in carpentry I trust his expertise. I have a friend who is a doctor, I trust his expertise.
 
The problem with experts is usually they are really knowledgeable about one particular subject yet can miss the big picture.

Things don’t work in a vacuum with only one issue to resolve, there are side effects. This is where most experts lose credibility as they start talking outside their lanes or insist that because something is the best for their niche that it will automatically be good for everything else.

Politicians are supposed to be able to balance the advice from experts and provide the best option going forward with the reality on the ground.
 
Everyone complains about the first past the post system but once they are elected and form the government....they change their minds very quickly.
Based on previous models out there (prop rep, for example), let the first party willing to essentially never have a majority in parliament again give it a go! :)
 
I trust 'experts' I know. I have finished carpenter friend, when I need help in carpentry I trust his expertise. I have a friend who is a doctor, I trust his expertise.
Absolutely. Being an expert in X doesn’t make your opinions on Y any more valid.

But the issue is people dismissing an expert in that field because they don’t match with their preconceived beliefs.
 
It’s possible to have a majority govt in a non-FPTP system. Australia has a Labor majority as of the 2022 election.
Curious - any idea how often that happens, at least in AUS? Most proportional representation governments I know a bit about end up having to juggle coalitions of all colours almost all the time.
 
Absolutely. Being an expert in X doesn’t make your opinions on Y any more valid.

But the issue is people dismissing an expert in that field because they don’t match with their preconceived beliefs.

It’s also an issue when people and experts assume that their field is larger than it is.

A doctor is not an expert on the ratio of public to private that should be included in a national health system. Their opinion is likely more informed than a teachers but only in specific areas of the overall choice.

Most experts aren’t necessarily “experts” when it comes to deciding on public policy trade offs. They can help inform on the trade offs but they will likely tend to be biased toward a certain decision in opposition to the decision and biases of another equal expert in a different field that also has a stake.

War is too important to leave to the generals is a statement that also applies to public policy, it’s too important to leave to the experts.
 
Have we held a referendum on electoral reform?
Not nationally, but according to Wikipedia, it's happened once in Ontario in 2007 ...
... BC in 2005 ...
... as well as PEI in 2005 ...
... 2016 ...
... and 2019 ...

All of these came back with FPTP results
 
All of these came back with FPTP reresults
It's almost as if people prefer the simplicity and effectiveness of FPTP when it actually comes down to it.

As much as I don't always like the results of elections, I appreciate that the system is extremely simple to understand. It prevents narratives about "stolen" elections.
 
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