Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society

[Kat Stevens]

  Philosophers song


              Immanual Kant was a real pissant
                Who was very rarely stable

              Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
                Who could think you under the table

              David Hume could out consume
                Schopenhauer and Hegel

              And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
                Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel

                There's nothing Nietzche couldn't teach ya
                  'Bout the raising of the wrist
                Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed


              John Stuart Mill, of his own free will
                On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill

              Plato they say, could stick it away
                Half a crate of whiskey every day

              Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
                Hobbes was fond of his dram

              And Rene' Descartes was a drunken fart
                "I drink, therefore I am"

                Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed
                  A lovely little thinker
                But a bugger when he's pissed

My gift to you all....

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[Glorified Ape]

>The relativists are content to impose their morality where it's commonly accepted and the absolutists want to push it where it isn't.

Some relativists insist everyone else should be a relativist, and some absolutists believe in free will (ie. the good is absolute, but you may choose it or not).

Indeed, though I was speaking in generalities. I'm not sure any thinking relativist would take an absolutist position towards his relativism.

>Neither is right or wrong in their morality

By definition, to be moral is to be right (good) so absolutism is axiomatic.   Hence moral relativism is an absurdity.   A relativist can only be amoral.

I meant in absolute terms. By either's perception of "right" and "wrong", they're both moral. The kicker is that neither's perception of "right" and "wrong" is justifiably legitimate in any universal way.

A relativist can be moral - he can possess opinions and feelings about what's right and wrong, he just can't believe they're superior to anyone else's or attempt to impose them as such. The true relativist's morality is that which he finds most appealing to himself. It's essentially the old "I'll do what I do and you do what you do, and I won't bug you" scenario.

It's like any preference - A true relativist can enjoy mustard, be content with mustard, and put mustard on everything he eats but he can't tell you that you should like mustard or think less of you for not eating it.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

  Philosophers song

Now it will never go away!  Aaaaaaahhhhhh!    :crybaby:

 

[Kat Stevens]

Then my work here is done.... ;D

Kat

 

[Brad Sallows]

>A relativist can be moral - he can possess opinions and feelings about what's right and wrong, he just can't believe they're superior to anyone else's or attempt to impose them as such.

You are confusing tolerance for immorality with the judgement of what is moral/immoral itself; tolerance is merely one moral attribute.  The measurement of what is moral and what is not must be invariant; that which is wrong, is wrong for all people at all times.  Relativism requires that all things are permissible at all times, from which would have to follow the conclusion that nothing is moral.  But that contradicts the notion of morality in the first place.

 

[Springroll]

What is the army's stance on religion?

Is it that Protestant and Catholic are the only religions officially recognized by the CF?

 

[Slim]

What is the army's stance on religion?

Is it that Protestant and Catholic are the only religions officially recognized by the CF?

I believe that its P RC and "other"

Try and e-mail Trinity for that info

Slim

 

[Infanteer]

Short answer, no; they are not the only recognized religions - there is an Imam in the Forces.

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/religions/engraph/religions_toc_e.asp?flag=No

Other than that, these threads have a historical tendency of going over the top, so I'm locking it now.

 

[Trinity]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/religions/engraph/religions_toc_e.asp

All religions recognized by the CF

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What, no scientology? 

 

[Trinity]

What, no scientology? 

[/in my best Tom Cruise voice]

YOU DON'T KNOW the history of SCIENTOLOGY, I DO! 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

lol

 

[axeman]

any way so there i was for the laying of the ashes for SGT. SMOKIE SMITH .V.C. Etc and during the ceremony i was told we could remove head dress during the eulagy and slipping away of his remains . well this was a first  i was Asked to do something if we felt like it .. Only one person did not , he haveing less then a few years in at his time . Well after sll smkie did i think it is the least we can do to remove head dress and bow our heads ..

 

[NavComm]

If this has already been said here, I apologize that I have not read the entire 17 pages....

But just to add my limited knowledge (and it was the reference to Smokey Smith's funeral that caught my eye because I was part of the berthing party when the Ottawa left with and returned without his ashes)....

Anyways, while at bmq in Borden the padre came to talk to us. She was very lively and at first I found her a bit hard to take because after being yelled at and ordered about for weeks and then to have this really upbeat, happy person there was almost too much for my very much by now dulled senses.....Well she was fabulous. She explained to us about how the CF embraces all religions and anyone who's religion wasn't offered on base could talk to her and she would do her best to have them speak with a spiritual leader of their choice if they so desired.

I'm not a religious person, but for those that are, it's there and she was a powerful presence representing all that's good in the CF. She even addressed those of us who aren't church goers and left the door open for anyone who just needed a safe place to talk about how difficult bmq is or anything else...anyway for us the accommodation was definately there

 

[Seamus449]

I felt the same way even though I'm an NRE, our padre was a great guy and even though not everyone in the room was christian or even religious we all felt like he'd be a good person to go and talk to if we messed up really bad some day and needed some positive reinforcement, because it feels a lot better to get assured by someone with some bars rather than someone in your room thats the same rank as you.

 

[reccecrewman]

Ahhhhhhh............ Nothing like a religious debate to get blood boiling.  No matter what, there's going to be people mad or offended by what you have to say about it.  Stay away from the topic, it's a minefield best left alone.  Believe what you believe and don't get into a debate about it. My 2 cents

 

[George Wallace]

We currently have a heated discussion going on "Sharia Law in Canada" and are debating its Socio and Economic ramifications on Canadian Culture.   Aside from the rising popularity of Islam in North America, we are seeing a small segment of our Society moving away from the major religions, be they Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist or Hindi. Why are we finding people now being interested in other religions that are rather small and unheard of in modern society?   I have met people who were Satanists, Wicca, and Druid.   There are other sects out there that became popular in the '70s, such as the Hari Chrisna Sects and Moonies.   Are these all a sign of loss of faith in the established religions or and a search for something else?   How are they affecting our Culture?

 

[Kat Stevens]

Great question George.  I became dissatisfied with the lack of answers provided by the "Big Three" many years ago.  I fooled about with a few of the "fringe" elements; Scientology (erk!), zen Buddhism (lacked the patience), etc.  My current interest leans toward a hybrid of Zoroastrianism and Cabala.  Interesting stuff, so far.  I'll keep you posted, if you like...

esoterically yours, Kat

 

[paracowboy]

I have met people who were Satanists, Wicca, and Druid.  

I think what you mean to say here is, "I have met people who have professed to be Satanists, Wicca, and Druid." The latter two religions disappeared for centuries, leaving no trace of their tenets, philosophies, or ceremonies. They had a "revival" in recent times, propagated by people who had no clue what they were getting into, and made things up on the spot. Usually, as is the case with most religions, in order to fool the gullible into giving them money, sex, and authority.
As for Satanism, look into Lavey (sp). He, at least, was very blatant in saying that is exactly why he started with it. Money, sex, drugs, and power. I can respect his honesty.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The modern Druid phenomenon is amusing, considering Seutonius virtually eradicated them on the Isle of Mona in about AD 72.   Nothing of their teachings survived the past 2000 years. But, sheeple are sheeple...

Correction:  61 AD, same year as Boudicca's revolt