Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society

[Bruce Monkhouse]

. Her secondary duties are of no interest to me.

"To you" doesn't mean "to everyone".

 

[FJAG]

"To you" doesn't mean "to everyone".

That's true. I find that I'm more tolerant than most and less tolerant than some on most issues.

That doesn't mean that I have to buckle under.

 

[Good2Golf]

Nope by the sovereign of Canada. Her secondary duties are of no interest to me. Neither is the basis of her divine right to rule.

Divine right? I thought we were an Anarcho-syndicalist commune?

And on topic, while Canadian society inclusively considers atheism…and agnosticism, incidentally, it continues to include those who follow a God-based faith as well. Considering all the recent rewording of the national anthem to be more inclusive and less misogynistic, God (in whatever un-constrained form) remains in place within said anthem. Thus it would seem with the inclusion of some element of religion, although significantly and responsively reduced over the years to the minimalist form represented in today’s CAF, that the CAF remains a representation of the society it defends today, that so too has reduced explicit reference to religion in official affairs, but has not eliminated it.

Perhaps those still with issue could present a case for how the CAF’s diminuation of religion had proportionately lagged behind that of societal Canada on the whole?

 

[quadrapiper]

This from the Heritage site

It's irritating that a comprehensive housecleaning hasn't been conducted as far as religious elements in ceremonial.

Doing a 200/201 edit is free; ditto quietly letting church affiliations lapse, and, if anyone was still running church parades or delivering prayers on parade, just letting that practice vanish. Ditto grace etc. at dinners. Pulling laid up or deposited colours, and anything else by way of artifacts, back to the armoury until a secular home can be found is a morning's work. Let the senates, associations, old guards, etc. know that their input, in this, is not welcome. Let the chaplains know they've no ceremonial role unless asked by the member or family to officiate at a service funeral or wedding.

Any shrieking outside the CAF will die down quickly enough to be irrelevant.

 

[Kilted]

It's irritating that a comprehensive housecleaning hasn't been conducted as far as religious elements in ceremonial.

Doing a 200/201 edit is free; ditto quietly letting church affiliations lapse, and, if anyone was still running church parades or delivering prayers on parade, just letting that practice vanish. Ditto grace etc. at dinners. Pulling laid up or deposited colours, and anything else by way of artifacts, back to the armoury until a secular home can be found is a morning's work. Let the senates, associations, old guards, etc. know that their input, in this, is not welcome. Let the chaplains know they've no ceremonial role unless asked by the member or family to officiate at a service funeral or wedding.

Any shrieking outside the CAF will die down quickly enough to be irrelevant.

The Regimental Associations are run by civilians, they can do whatever they what. Besides people complaining about this page, I have never heard anyone complain about being present when any religious content is present in a ceremony. Most of which when it happens is done by civilian organizations anyways, mostly the Royal Canadian Legion or local municipalities. I didn't complain when there was a First Nations religious element incorporated into the parade that I would have avoid according to my religious beliefs if it had of happened elsewhere. Takening back old colours would be wrong for many reasons. For one many of them are old and may be damaged by being moved. I would be interested to find out who has legal ownership of those colours. Another thing is that those colours represented versions of regiments from a society that was far more religious than today. Why should we retroactively break that connection?

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Regimental Associations are run by civilians, they can do whatever they what. Besides people complaining about this page, I have never heard anyone complain about being present when any religious content is present in a ceremony. Most of which when it happens is done by civilian organizations anyways, mostly the Royal Canadian Legion or local municipalities. I didn't complain when there was a First Nations religious element incorporated into the parade that I would have avoid according to my religious beliefs if it had of happened elsewhere. Takening back old colours would be wrong for many reasons. For one many of them are old and may be damaged by being moved. I would be interested to find out who has legal ownership of those colours. Another thing is that those colours represented versions of regiments from a society that was far more religious than today. Why should we retroactively break that connection?

I've been part of various 'smudging' ceremonies delivered by various First Nations groups.

In my experience they always ask you if you'd like to participate, and clearly honour the values of choice for any religious ceremony.

There's alot we could learn from that IMHO

 

[Remius]

The CAF does not have the lead on the National Remembrance Day Ceremony. We participate but it’s run and scheduled by the Legion and Veterans affairs. Not us. We are certainly a stakeholder. So maybe take up this issue with them? Not sure how other ceremonies are dealt with in other locales but somehow I doubt the CAF leads those either.

 

[FJAG]

God (in whatever un-constrained form) remains in place within said anthem.

And even more blatantly in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

 

[daftandbarmy]

And even more blatantly in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: the Defender of the Faith!

 

[quadrapiper]

The Regimental Associations are run by civilians, they can do whatever they what. Besides people complaining about this page, I have never heard anyone complain about being present when any religious content is present in a ceremony.

The associations certainly can do as they like: was suggesting letting them know that there would be no point in trying to lobby anyone about any secularization.

Not sure of your context, but religion is a standing complaint about Remembrance ceremonies (which, absolutely, aren't generally CAF led) around here, both from uniformed members and civilians.

If colours and the like are no longer recoverable, fine: that said, make sure relationships with religious organizations and venues end to a "don't call us, we certainly won't be calling you" degree.

 

[HiTechComms]

Serious question. I tried looking for this on DND website, couldn't find any information but this thread might actually fit into my inquiry. Civilian life is not the same as military.
Never really thought about this until now, as its been settled issue for me for long time but I am curious to know how this is handled nonetheless.

How does CAF handle a Living Will, Advanced Directives?
I have living will for a DNR, (no CPR), amongst some of my clauses, if I am incapacitated due to head injury or a spinal injury which would leave me unable to function at a certain quality of life. IE Walking, Breathing unassisted, Heart conditions which require extraordinary measures to keep functioning. IE Transplant. etc..

I fully understand that some situations this is an issue, as it is not really applicable to certain situations IE: EMT, Firefighters, Field medical assistance. This is purely Hospitalization question.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I fully understand that some situations this is an issue, as it is not really applicable to certain situations IE: EMT, Firefighters, Field medical assistance. This is purely Hospitalization question.

Since the CAF no longer operates hospitals in Canada, though they may have staff or designated units in some civilian facilities, it may be a moot point. In most cases, tertiary care for serving members in Canada will likely be provided by civilian health care providers who will be governed by whatever policies/regulation/custom are then applicable to their hospital or province.

 

[HiTechComms]

Since the CAF no longer operates hospitals in Canada, though they may have staff or designated units in some civilian facilities, it may be a moot point. In most cases, tertiary care for serving members in Canada will likely be provided by civilian health care providers who will be governed by whatever policies/regulation/custom are then applicable to their hospital or province.

Thank you for the answer.