General CFRC Questions – Regular Forces

[Winds]

Attie3, if you join the RegF it simply would not be considered a transfer on the part of the CAF and will not affect your pay or selection for employment. It would be a new career, not a new direction for your current one within the Public Service, and require you to terminate your current employment. There also is no priority hiring scheme going from the Public Service to the military, as there is for released CAF members applying to the Public Service.

That being said, you potentially can transfer your pensionable time from the Public Service to the CAF. Hope that helps.

 

[jan31488]

While on RC today, I saw a Folder written with CLOSED /NFC  What does it mean?

 

[OblivionKnight]

While on RC today, I saw a Folder written with CLOSED /NFC  What does it mean?

I believe it stands for "closed / no further contact"? I.e. files that were closed and there was no further contact between the recruiting centre and applicant.
My file folder had the same thing written on it.

 

[TheDeparture]

Hello everyone. This is my status.


Recruiting Center: London
Regular/Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: NCM
Trade Choice 1: ACIS
Application Date: July 12, 2019
First Contact: July 15, 2019
CFAT Test: Bypass due to previous CFAT 2007
Interview: July 29, 2019
Medical evaluation:  August 12, 2019
Reliability Screening:
Position Offered:
Sworn in: 
Basic Training Begins:

I reapplied after a voluntary withdraw in 2007 and the process is going very quickly. Does anyone know when selection dates for ACIS generally are at this time of year with the current demand for personnel?

I was advised by the P.O. at my CFRC that I'm more than likely going to be selected as long as my interview and medical go well as I completed my CFAT in 2007, and they were really happy with the score and they advised me ACIS is in extremely high demand right now and it falls in line with what I love to do.

Does anyone have any insight as to what I should expect in terms of how long it may take to know if I am chosen and when my BMQ  may be? As far as I understand, ACIS BMQ is almost weekly.

 

[da1root]

Hey, so when I was in high school and I had looked at the forces application it was like if you were applying to a specific job. Now when I look at the process it seems to me that they're hiring people and then placing people based on their competencies, so when you applying to the forces you're not really applying to position you're applying generally and then they place you?
And I just wanted to confirm that if you join the forces it's not only on a contract a contract basis (meaning that you may not have a job in 2 years).

I'm currently a network analyst for a telecommunications company and have been for 5 years and I do not feel like my life has meaning right now and I want to change jobs but as much as I want my life to have meaning it also has to have stability.

What's the average lifespan of a career in the forces?

The recruiting steps are in the process of changing; at one point in time you had to list up to 3 preferred occupations and then you wrote the CFAT.  It is changing to be that you will write the CFAT; you will be given a list of occupations you qualify for and you can pick up to 3 that you would like to do.

Military members are on contracts, the initial contract length (called a VIE) ranges from 3 years to 13 years depending on the occupation and entry plan that you are joining.  After the initial VIE you may be offered an extension beyond the initial VIE based on your performance.

The average length of a career in the CAF varies, as stated above the initial contract length is 3 years - some people release prior to this for various reasons and others stay to retirement (pension commences at 25 years of service and maxes out after 35 years of service); from a personal note I have just entered my 21st year of service and work alongside many individuals who are 30+ years.

 

[da1root]

BMQ Dates: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/basic-training/recruit-school.html
BMQ is not done by occupation; your start date is based on when you are selected for enrollment, right now they're loading individuals on serials 108 & 109.

 

[Rei]

Hello all,

I've been deliberating between several trades and trying to pick which one I should pick, but am at an impasse and would seriously love so other people's perspectives. Talking to the recruiter has helped, but their answer still left some questions that I am trying to work out on my own.

My background is a undergraduate with a degree in Science (Kinesiology), and turning 24 next year. Not the best student, averaging about a C+/B- range.

The trades that I've been looking at are Med Tech, Armoured Officer and Air Combat System Officer. I realize that these are quite unrelated to each other. Med Tech is something that I really want to do (My childhood dream to to become a paramedic/medic), but I've read that it is a Non-Commissioned position, which to my knowledge means their is a cap on rank and salary. And I've emailed the Forces recruiter in Victoria about how hard it was to earn a commission, to which their reply was that "You would be able to commission into an equivalent trade" which they stated was a Health Care Admin. A lot of people I've talked with who have military friends recommended that I should try to get in as a officer, as that will be better for my future, so I have stated Armoured Officer and ACSO which do look interesting. But I would just really like some other opinions on this.

If it helps, my goal is to try to get into DART (I realize this is more of a chance thing) or as a SAR Tech (also apparently a once in a blue moon thing from what I've read). But I really want to help people on the medical side and be out in the field.

Thanks for your time.

 

[brihard]

Out of those three options, if you have aspirations for DART or especially for SAR, MedTech is the way to go.

Yes, officers get paid more. As far as rank goes, understand that we have noncommissioned ranks, and commissioned (officer) ranks. There is still a lot of progression and I would say a hell of a lot more technical specialization in the noncommissioned ranks generally, and certainly looking at MedTech versus Armour or ACSO.

Our MedTechs are trained and qualified paramedics. Incidentally if you compete for and achieve selection for SAR, you have to get trained in that anyway, so it gives you a bit of a leg up in that respect.

You were told one thing that was but no longer is accurate, and that has to do with commissioning from the ranks into similar work. CAF Health Services has Physicians Assistants, a hard medical trade. They used to be senior MedTechs, generally Warrant Officer and up. My understanding is that they are now commissioned officers. Someone else on this site will be able to shed more light on that for you.

For my money I’d say go med tech if that’s where your dreams lie.

 

[mariomike]

(My childhood dream to to become a paramedic/medic), but I've read that it is a Non-Commissioned position, which to my knowledge means their is a cap on rank and salary.

Our MedTechs are trained and qualified paramedics.

Paramedic licensure is set by the provincial regulators.

In Ontario, to be emplyed as a PCP, you must first become an AEMCA.

5. (1) The operator of a land ambulance service shall not employ a person to provide patient care, whether on a full-time or part-time basis, or engage a person to provide patient care as a full-time volunteer, unless the person is a paramedic who, holds the qualifications of an advanced emergency medical care assistant  ( AEMCA )

Recognition of QL5A & Challenge of AEMCA exam:

Reference A is a confirmation letter by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, Emergency Health Services Branch, recognizing the CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam, all QL5 Med Techs are encouraged to prepare for and write this exam with approval through their Chain of Command.  Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario.

QL5 Med Techs who wish to challenge the AEMCA require an additional of 120 hrs. minimum of field placement in Ontario.

Regarding Med Techs and Paramedic licensure,

Medics requiring to maintain a license 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/107868.0

Concerning the training and education at the CAF 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/130059/post-1566031.html#msg1566031
Licensure of paramedics is the responsibility and domain of the various provincial regulatory bodies.

 

[Rei]

Thank you very much for the replies, as they have shed light on various things.

Reading the link from mariomike, am I to understand that if I am accepted into the CAF as a Med Tech, I will be trained and certified to the QL3 level? I currently reside in BC, so I am not certain whether this would mean that I could become a paramedic/PCP outside of the CAF. And as for the progression to QL5 and AEMCA, is it a natural progression from QL3 that I will encounter moving along as a Med Tech, or an examination that I would have to look for outside of the CAF?

Additionally, is there any type of eyesight requirement for Med Tech, as I wear glasses and cannot find any information on the internet regarding this mater.

 

[mariomike]

I am not certain whether this would mean that I could become a paramedic/PCP outside of the CAF.

Good luck.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Additionally, is there any type of eyesight requirement for Med Tech, as I wear glasses and cannot find any information on the internet regarding this mater.

The website linked below has all the information regarding medical standards for the CAF including the medical category requirements for each individual trade. 

Canadian Armed Forces Medical Standards (CFP 154)

Annex A will explain what each component of the Med Cat is for/means as well as the Common Enrolment Medical Standard requirements.

Annex E will allow you to find the requirements for each trade in the CAF.


As for selecting a trade, whether it be NCM or Officer. my advice is pick the one you can see yourself doing for XX years.  Whether NCM or Officer, you may not be able to move between trades for a variety of reasons or factors.  Yes, Officers tend to make more in salary, but NCMs can make close to their pay.  Example, SAR Techs receive Specialist Level 2 pay and Rescue Specialist Allowance (starts at $595/month). 

 

[cyl2chan]

I have a law degree from UK (but not a qualified lawyer). In the officer route, may I know what trade I am qualified for?

Thanks!

 

[Winds]

I have a law degree from UK (but not a qualified lawyer). In the officer route, may I know what trade I am qualified for?

Thanks!

cyl2chan,

If you have not already ordered one, you will require an acadademic credential assessment (ex. IQAS) to determine the equivalency of your degree. Assuming that it will state equivalency to a bachelors, you would qualify for all Officer occupations that accept "any bachelors degree" for Direct Entry (DEO). Off the top of my head, this list includes: Infantry Officer, Artillery Officer, Armoured Officer, Logistics Officer, Intelligence Officer, Pilot, Aerospace Controller, Air Combat Systems Officer, Signals Officer, Military Police Officer, and Naval Warfare Officer.

If you want to apply as a Legal Officer, you'll have to be called to the bar and be of good standing by the Law Society of a Canadian Province. It is a highly competitive trade and your experience within the legal profession will be given significant consideration.

 

[coyote489]

Here’s a question for a friend,

My buddy, who wishes not to post on here, got a taste of the green weeny even before joining the forces.

The guy applied for a fairly competitive trade, but the dude could easily score TC on any course. He calls the CFRC ,as everyone does, for an update on his file as he was merit listed. Ole Joe the recruiter tells him “congratulations, you have an offer coming your way, expect a call Friday or Monday with the full details and offer package.

So Wednesday of the next week approaches and... no call, he calls ole Joe recruiter (Same guy) back and asks about his offer. He is told oh I don’t know what your talking about, there is no offer, you are 13 of 6 positions....

I had a hard time with this one and haven’t the slightest clue of recruiting policy so I’d like to hear it from some of you if he can do anything or does he bite the bullet and carry on to another trade choice?

Let er rip, let’s here some opinions. Thanks in advance.

 

[coffeeaddict]

Here’s a question for a friend,

My buddy, who wishes not to post on here, got a taste of the green weeny even before joining the forces.

The guy applied for a fairly competitive trade, but the dude could easily score TC on any course. He calls the CFRC ,as everyone does, for an update on his file as he was merit listed. Ole Joe the recruiter tells him “congratulations, you have an offer coming your way, expect a call Friday or Monday with the full details and offer package.

So Wednesday of the next week approaches and... no call, he calls ole Joe recruiter (Same guy) back and asks about his offer. He is told oh I don’t know what your talking about, there is no offer, you are 13 of 6 positions....

I had a hard time with this one and haven’t the slightest clue of recruiting policy so I’d like to hear it from some of you if he can do anything or does he bite the bullet and carry on to another trade choice?

Let er rip, let’s here some opinions. Thanks in advance.

Disclaimer: I have not joined the forces yet, but I have put together things I read and heard enough to maybe help answer your questions about your buddy.

Merit listed pretty much means he has been deemed qualified (meeting minimum requirements) for the job he applied and is now in an inventory. When an opening comes up, an HR person open the electronic inventory, clicks filter button like hiring a new mercenary in a computer game, looks over their stats (CFAT, TDS, and Interview scores), as well as notes on their background, skills (such as language), and other details about them. HR person decides who to match with any offers. Being merit listed only means getting a spot in the potential hiring digital group inventory for that job.

When the recruiting personnel called him and told him "expect a call Friday or Monday with the full details and offer package.", I think they meant exactly, or literally, that it is expected. A lot of people expect to have kids one day with their SO, but ends up getting divorced. This is usually due to unexpected events.

So when their expectation of a coming offer is squashed, the unexpected events can be probably due to a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

1. Someone with a perfect CFAT score (and from my experience taking it, I think it's definitely not uncommon) may have gotten merit listed during those few days, and the HR person picked them.

2. A list of candidates from the pool of existing CF members applied to transfer to your buddy's trade, and with some stellar recommendations by superior officers etc, they may have gotten bumped up the inventory ranking, ahead of your buddy.

So pretty much it comes down to: any time anyone more competitive than your buddy gets merit listed, he gotta wait longer. The unexpected can often happen. Hope he can find ways to de-stress and focus himself on keeping busy elsewhere.



When the recruiting personnel said "oh I don’t know what your talking about, there is no offer, you are 13 of 6 positions...."

I'm pretty sure they get hundreds of calls a week, and if they had to look your buddy up, they may not remember the exact words they told your buddy a few days ago. Maybe the first time your buddy called, they were sympathetic, and just want to share the good news that they expect, which they also hoped would make your buddy happy. The second time your buddy called, they checked the system, and could only conclude from the information in front of them, that he has yet to receive an offer, as well as his ranking within the inventory.

So pretty much, I think your buddy can simply find comfort in that the person that he called probably was not intentionally trying to dupe him. Anyone in the same position who cares about your buddy or is excited to share the good news would have also said the same thing they are expecting, but when the unexpected happens, they would not be able to follow through. Unexpected stuff happens.


"""does he bite the bullet and carry on to another trade choice?"""

I think if the job he applied is what he want to do, then ranked 13 for 6 positions is extremely good comparing to my experience at private and public companies, where there are typically 500-1000 applicants ranked for each 1 position we hired. And when new position comes out, we post a new competition. However, it seems that for CF, your buddy do not have to reapply for every position that opens up. It is automatically done for him. No 5 interviews for each 5 new openings coming up etc. If you ask me, this is a cakewalk comparing to the private sector I'm used to. xD

 

[coyote489]

Thanks coffeeaddict, a Well put together answer,

100% get where you are coming from, however I was talking more in terms of policy recruiters have to follow. This seems a bit weird to me is all. Was hoping maybe someone with some first hand recruiting experience could step in and answer. Not much of a big deal anyways, the guy has moved on and selected another trade.

 

[Winds]

coyote489,

It may have been that the recruiter was simply looking at the wrong person's application when he was looking at the Competition List, perhaps the last person they talked to. I've even seen multiple people through the same recruiting centre with the same first and last name with open applications, which can easily cause confusion.

As far as where an applicant sits on the Competition List, it comes down to the CFAT along with relevant experience and education. Skilled applicants (previous CAF members applying to go back to their old trade) also always get selected over unskilled applicants. Letters of reference and knowing the right people are not even considered. References are used for determination of reliability and the provision of security clearances, not competitiveness.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Thanks coffeeaddict, a Well put together answer,

100% get where you are coming from, however I was talking more in terms of policy recruiters have to follow. This seems a bit weird to me is all. Was hoping maybe someone with some first hand recruiting experience could step in and answer. Not much of a big deal anyways, the guy has moved on and selected another trade.

BUCK_HRA is the mod-in-the-know for all recruiting questions. However, as he can be quite busy at times and this is strictly a volunteer gig, he can't always be here as often as he'd like.

Everyone else (unless they're a Recruiter or are in direct contact with one) can only offer possibilities or very limited insight based off their own experiences and what they think might be going on. Oversights occur from time to time and no one is trying to intentionally or maliciously screw over your friend.

Tell your friend to register for an account and he can PM Buck directly. It would remain private and there's no obligation for your friend to participate publicly on this forum. Buck could lend him the most insight of anyone.

For what it's worth, also tell your friend that my process from application to BMQ took almost 3 yrs--Oct 2011 to Sept 2014. (This is mainly due to the trade I first applied to.) Anyway, you can imagine my frustrations over the course and I was sometimes told conflicting information. At the time there was a recruiter on these boards who was tremendously helpful. Networking and patience is crucial in all walks of life and there are always those willing to help. Tell your friend to put himself out there if he wants answers.