2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Remius]

If success is limited to winning the leadership, sure.

But if winning the election is the end goal and losing gets a leader turfed then no, this isn't the way forward.

The first conservative leader to succeed is going to be the one who figures out how to win the leadership while somehow being electable.

O'Toole tried and we just saw what happened.

Why would anyone run for the leadership if it’s just a one chance thing.

 

[Altair]

Why would anyone run for the leadership if it’s just a one chance thing.

Serious people will not.

Ambrose, Mackay, those people are done.

You're going to get those who love the prestige of being party leader like Poilievre, Scheer and Lewis

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Looking forward to voting for the Bloc as the only viable opposition to the Liberal Party in the next election... oh, wait, I can't

Opinion: Are Conservatives becoming Canada's Trump Republicans?​

Are we seeing the end of the federal Conservative party as a legitimate opposition? Is it becoming a sad echo of the American Republican party, a.k.a., the Donald Trump party?

The post-mortem report on the Conservative party’s performance in the 2021 election criticized it — and leader Erin O’Toole in particular — for too many flip-flops during the election. The party, it is advised, must make clear what it stands for.

Aye, but there’s the rub! What too many of its party’s supporters stand for is not palatable to the vast majority of Canadians. Sure, balanced budgets get a salute, as does support for the military. But climate change denialism, social conservatism, and creeping privatization of health care do not attract young, urban, and more socially liberal voters, and scare off many others. Even less appealing is pandering to those for whom freedom means ignoring one’s responsibilities or the rights of others.

Opinion: Are Conservatives becoming Canada's Trump Republicans?

Are we seeing the end of the federal Conservative party as a legitimate opposition? Is it becoming a sad echo of the American Republican party, a.k.a., the Donald T…

edmontonjournal.com

He's been trying to draw parallels between the Conservatives and Trump Republicans for more than a couple of years now. It just appears a biased hit piece to me.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Like the abortion restrictions members’ bills, etc. that well-intentioned or not, are like handing ammunition to the LPC to scare Canadians away from the CPC?

It's going to have to be clarified once and for all. The upcoming SCOTUS review of Roe v. Wade will most definitely spill over into Canada and bring the issue front and centre.

 

[Altair]

It's going to have to be clarified once and for all. The upcoming SCOTUS review of Roe v. Wade will most definitely spill over into Canada and bring the issue front and centre.

lol,no.

 

[Remius]

Serious people will not.

Ambrose, Mackay, those people are done.

You're going to get those who love the prestige of being party leader like Poilievre, Scheer and Lewis

It’s just the cost as well. Mackay is still in debt by like a lot…

 

[Remius]

It's going to have to be clarified once and for all. The upcoming SCOTUS review of Roe v. Wade will most definitely spill over into Canada and bring the issue front and centre.

That’s not how that works lol. If anything it will only add more fuel to the accusations that the CPC have a secret agenda and that won’t help.

 

[Spencer100]

lol,no.

You don't think that would have a spillover effect? Totally have a spillover especially if it goes against Roe. The first thing Canadian reporters will do is ask every Conservative their position.

 

[Altair]

You don't think that would have a spillover effect? Totally have a spillover especially if it goes against Roe. The first thing Canadian reporters will do is ask every Conservative their position.

Canadians are largely supportive of the way things are in Canada.

Which is why every time it is brought up in Canada, its boosts the LPC and hobbles the CPC.

If there is any spillover its simply to reinforce the above, not change the status quo.

But by all means, the SOCONs can for sure try to rally around the abortion issue, it seems like they are in the drivers seat of the CPC right now.

 

[Altair]

It’s just the cost as well. Mackay is still in debt by like a lot…

There are going to be those looking at what the truckers convoy just raised in a short time, and think that they can harness it.

The PPC too most likely.

 

[Remius]

You don't think that would have a spillover effect? Totally have a spillover especially if it goes against Roe. The first thing Canadian reporters will do is ask every Conservative their position.

I fully expect Cheryl Gallant or some other to open their gateway to hell and say something stupid that only serves to help tank the CPC by providing sound bites. And then all the laments about being treated unfairly after putting bullets in their feet.

So yes.

 

[brihard]

Serious people will not.

Ambrose, Mackay, those people are done.

You're going to get those who love the prestige of being party leader like Poilievre, Scheer and Lewis

Poilievre makes good angry Tory noises. He appeals heavily to their base. Not sure he’d be an attractive candidate to swing voters, however he’s not really a SoCon, so he has that going for him. If the CPC picked him and ran a hard campaign on the country’s finances, employment, and supporting the provinces to un-frig healthcare, and if while doing this he can keep a grip on the SoCons so they STFU about anything even tangentially related to abortion or LGBTQ rights, they may have a chance.

Scheer is a wiener and has already lost to Trudeau. He wouldn’t even commit to renouncing his US citizenship for the purpose of running for PM of Canada, so screw that guy.

Lewis is a hard SoCon and utterly unelectable for that purpose.

I think internal CPC politics drove out some of the good potential candidates. They may be really suffering with this decision.

 

[dimsum]

I fully expect Cheryl Gallant or some other to open their gateway to hell and say something stupid that only serves to help tank the CPC by providing sound bites. And then all the laments about being treated unfairly after putting bullets in their feet.

So yes.

 

[Altair]

Poilievre makes good angry Tory noises. He appeals heavily to their base. Not sure he’d be an attractive candidate to swing voters, however he’s not really a SoCon, so he has that going for him. If the CPC picked him and ran a hard campaign on the country’s finances, employment, and supporting the provinces to un-frig healthcare, and if while doing this he can keep a grip on the SoCons so they STFU about anything even tangentially related to abortion or LGBTQ rights, they may have a chance.

Scheer is a wiener and has already lost to Trudeau. He wouldn’t even commit to renouncing his US citizenship for the purpose of running for PM of Canada, so screw that guy.

Lewis is a hard SoCon and utterly unelectable for that purpose.

I think internal CPC politics drove out some of the good potential candidates. They may be really suffering with this decision.

I think Poilievre is not in the enviable position he thinks he is.
I don't think the CPC membership is going to go for a eastern based MP without the strong SOCON roots.

They got hoodwinked by O'Toole and they likely don't make that mistake again.

The only chance I think Poilievre has is making this a coronation, if he fails to do that the SOCON vote will consolidate around a actual true blue conservative.

 

[Remius]

There is irony that this happened on ground hog day…

 

[suffolkowner]

Not sure there's a short term gain here for the Conservatives. O'toole might have flip-flopped to much but walking the tight-rope of policy between what is electable and what some Conservative members want is going to be difficult for whoever succeeds him. I don't see it happening

 

[Good2Golf]

It's going to have to be clarified once and for all. The upcoming SCOTUS review of Roe v. Wade will most definitely spill over into Canada and bring the issue front and centre.

Clarified? This is Canada, right…it’s been kept deliberately vague…enough…so that it doesn’t have to be clarified. The only people who like ‘freedom of manoeuvre’ more than military armoured forces are politicians…they’re keep as much uncertainty in the process so that they don’t have to be held tomato’s on the issue…except when their adversary takes a position and they want to demonize them…

 

[brihard]

Clarified? This is Canada, right…it’s been kept deliberately vague…enough…so that it doesn’t have to be clarified. The only people who like ‘freedom of manoeuvre’ more than military armoured forces are politicians…they’re keep as much uncertainty in the process so that they don’t have to be held tomato’s on the issue…except when their adversary takes a position and they want to demonize them…

Not sure what needs to be clarified.

Abortion is a medical procedure. The practice of medicine is regulated by the provinces.

Once upon a time, providing abortion in Canada was criminal. Morgentaler struck this down on Charter grounds, albeit with the court divided on precisely why. Nonetheless, the Criminal Code section outlawing it was struck down. It is therefore not an offence to get an abortion. Theoretically a government could pass a new law on the matter since the Morgentaler decision resulted in no binding precedent due to the judge split. I think, however, that in the past couple decades we have likely moved as a society well away from where this would be politically survivable.

There’s no lingering, unresolved legal question on this. A party would have to be dumb enough to try to re-criminalize it for there to be such a question. It would be a race to see if the courts or the legislature would reverse it first.

 

[Altair]

Not sure what needs to be clarified.

Abortion is a medical procedure. The practice of medicine is regulated by the provinces.

Once upon a time, providing abortion in Canada was criminal. Morgentaler struck this down on Charter grounds, albeit with the court divided on precisely why. Nonetheless, the Criminal Code section outlawing it was struck down. It is therefore not an offence to get an abortion. Theoretically a government could pass a new law on the matter since the Morgentaler decision resulted in no binding precedent due to the judge split. I think, however, that in the past couple decades we have likely moved as a society well away from where this would be politically survivable.

There’s no lingering, unresolved legal question on this. A party would have to be dumb enough to try to re-criminalize it for there to be such a question. It would be a race to see if the courts or the legislature would reverse it first.

The cynical part of this is, the Left could explicitly legalize it as well.

But they leave it undefined as bait so the second someone (CPC) suggest doing anything the LPC can pounce on them.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... If the CPC picked him and ran a hard campaign on the country’s finances, employment, and supporting the provinces to un-frig healthcare, and if while doing this he can keep a grip on the SoCons so they STFU about anything even tangentially related to abortion or LGBTQ rights, they may have a chance ...

Can't see that bit in yellow happening in his case because I suspect he's not in it FOR anything, but (like others have said) AGAINST the current Team Blue approach. He also doesn't strike me as someone who wants to deal with caucus stuff & party discipline.