2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[RangerRay]

Through the 90s, PM Chrétien's government had to clean up and institute austerity spending , non-withstanding his spending on the 1995 Quebec referendum. It can be done, it's not popular or easy.

It helps when the opposition is divided too.

 

[Kirkhill]

I’ll end this by saying Poilievre and the CPC better have a well thought out plan should they get elected.

If the liberal Left and Right fail to fix this, the voters will elect the illiberal Left or Right who will promise to do so.

That is a risk no matter who gets elected. And frankly it is my concern right now when the Populist/Elite debate is gaining traction. The old teams are breaking up and new teams are being formed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In a federal context what do you see “getting people off the government teat” looking like? Firing a bunch of federal employees and rolling back EI, CPP, and OAS?

Cut taxes drastically, cut social spending limiting it to contributors and the mentally and physically disabled, create a mixed public/private healthcare system, stop all foreign aide, slow immigration remain focused on recruiting in markets/industries/professions in need, only allow working age immigrants, cut corporate taxes in an effort to bring back manufacturing, cut climate change initiatives, free up the oil sands get them into high gear, give tax breaks for families to encourage internal population growth.


Invest in police, CBSA, defence and infrastructure.

 

[RangerRay]

The reality is that if he shows all of his plan now, the LPC will use it to frighten the sheep. Because fixing the mess that the LPC created is going to be painful for a lot of people. Plus a lot of the goodies given will have to end or be clawed back. That's not a winning thing to talk about.

Advertise it, don’t advertise it, I don’t care. But they better have a realistic plan to implement because empty rhetoric about simple fixes like “build more houses” and “go around the gate keepers” won’t fix this crisis. As Glavin said in the article, there are a lot of moving parts to this, moving for many decades. Everyone will have to take a bite out of this shit sandwich and no one will like it.

If there’s no plan or no positive results, then I shudder to think who will be elected after the CPC.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Advertise it, don’t advertise it, I don’t care. But they better have a realistic plan to implement because empty rhetoric about simple fixes like “build more houses” and “go around the gate keepers” won’t fix this crisis. As Glavin said in the article, there are a lot of moving parts to this, moving for many decades. Everyone will have to take a bite out of this shit sandwich and no one will like it.

If there’s no plan or no positive results, then I shudder to think who will be elected after the CPC.

You're right, its gonna suck. The fix is going to hurt and its going to take more than 1 term.

But, I also think no matter what plan PP and CPC comes up with folks are going to be pissed off. If he was smart he would concentrate on the middle class and upper middle class and up. Help them put value back in their pocket books and he will stay in power.

We also have to remember people are, to an extent, just tired of JT and his BS. The LPC HQ has to know this, and they have to know they need a centrist Liberal to win now... If they don't they have their heads in the sand.

The answer is in families and the economy right now.

 

[Good2Golf]

Advertise it, don’t advertise it, I don’t care. But they better have a realistic plan to implement because empty rhetoric about simple fixes like “build more houses” and “go around the gate keepers” won’t fix this crisis.

Couldn’t be worse than “housing isn’t our responsibility” but yes, the plan has to have value and realism/practicality to it.

As Glavin said in the article, there are a lot of moving parts to this, moving for many decades. Everyone will have to take a bite out of this shit sandwich and no one will like it.

Absolutely, but the people that really get pissed are the one’s who not only keep their own house in solid order and still have to eat others’ shit. A reasonable expectation is to not have to eat more shit, but less while others who have never had to eat any shit at all get a life lesson in pulling their weight.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You're right, its gonna suck. The fix is going to hurt and its going to take more than 1 term.

But, I also think no matter what plan PP and CPC comes up with folks are going to be pissed off. If he was smart he would concentrate on the middle class and upper middle class and up. Help them put value back in their pocket books and he will stay in power.

We also have to remember people are, to an extent, just tired of JT and his BS. The LPC HQ has to know this, and they have to know they need a centrist Liberal to win now... If they don't they have their heads in the sand.

The answer is in families and the economy right now.

The working class is there for the CPC taking, if they tone down the anti-union rhetoric and instead go divide and conquer the union management from the workers, who often have very different outlooks. Also differentiate between "service unions" and "worker unions"

 

[Quirky]

If he was smart he would concentrate on the middle class and upper middle class and up. Help them put value back in their pocket books and he will stay in power.

If the middle and upper class actually showed up to the polls.

 

[dimsum]

If the middle and upper class actually showed up to the polls.

Those are the ones showing up.

 

[Happy Guy]

I believe that the handwriting is on the wall for the LPC and CPC. Both parties will try to prove themselves as the best financial management experts to reduce gov't spending, reduce the public debt, climate change and giving Canadians the "hard reality." Once gov't spending is under control, in 2-3 years, then they will make a serious attempt resolve the housing crisis, health care crisis and the other economic ills.

The environment will still be at the fore front because of the climate crisis. Both parties will implement their solutions. The LPC will continue with the carbon tax and the CPC will implement whatever they decide.

Meanwhile the LPC or CPC, whoever is in power, will announce plans to study the housing and health care crisis - perhaps another Royal Commission to make an effort to look like they care. This study will take up to 2 years to complete. Once the studies or Commissions are completed, the ruling party will look at it, decide that it is too expensive or implement part of the recommendations - the ones are not expensive and ignore the rest.

The baseline of the Defence budget will not be cut and perhaps will see a slight increase in the next few years to appease NATO. Major capital projects will continue as long as they bring jobs in Canada - national ship building program, fight replacement program, CP-140 replacement, NORAD improvements, and maybe they'll replace whatever weapons, material and ammo that was given to the UKR if there is money. It will be another decade of darkness.

Cheers

 

[Brad Sallows]

Ok but like what?

Don't recall. You'd have to go back and search articles discussing what program spending the Liberals re-introduced after winning.

 

[Grimey]

Cut taxes drastically, cut social spending limiting it to contributors and the mentally and physically disabled, create a mixed public/private healthcare system, stop all foreign aide, slow immigration remain focused on recruiting in markets/industries/professions in need, only allow working age immigrants, cut corporate taxes in an effort to bring back manufacturing, cut climate change initiatives, free up the oil sands get them into high gear, give tax breaks for families to encourage internal population growth.


Invest in police, CBSA, defence and infrastructure.

This ^^^^

 

[Grimey]

You're right, its gonna suck. The fix is going to hurt and its going to take more than 1 term.

But, I also think no matter what plan PP and CPC comes up with folks are going to be pissed off. If he was smart he would concentrate on the middle class and upper middle class and up. Help them put value back in their pocket books and he will stay in power.

We also have to remember people are, to an extent, just tired of JT and his BS. The LPC HQ has to know this, and they have to know they need a centrist Liberal to win now... If they don't they have their heads in the sand.

The answer is in families and the economy right now.

If PP can convince the 905 and 250/604 of the need and avoid bozo interruptions, one term may become two or more. By god, we need it.

 

[FSTO]

Trudeau is the author of his own downfall. A real leader would be drawing talent into the fold to make the team better and grooming the exceptional talent to become the next leader. But all this team did was to force people out who were top performers or had the spine to tell the leader and the PMO that they were making mistakes.

Yes I know that the Chretien and Martin factions had their bitter battles that almost sunk the LPC but there must be a way to lead a party that isn't a toxic dumpster fire in the last years before a new person takes over?

I listened to a podcast that interview David Herle (Liberal Strategist) who said that nobody at the top will leave willingly and nobody at the top will spend time grooming potential replacements.

How can elected officials have the best interests of the country in mind when you are surrounded by sharks and hyenas 24/7/365.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Trudeau is the author of his own downfall. A real leader would be drawing talent into the fold to make the team better and grooming the exceptional talent to become the next leader. But all this team did was to force people out who were top performers or had the spine to tell the leader and the PMO that they were making mistakes.

Yes I know that the Chretien and Martin factions had their bitter battles that almost sunk the LPC but there must be a way to lead a party that isn't a toxic dumpster fire in the last years before a new person takes over?

The problem as I see it is more that the checks and balances our system is supposed to have/use, aren’t being used which has resulted in the need to completely consolidate all power at the house of commons level in the hands of the party leader.

The senate and governor general are supposed to act as checks and balances to our house of commons. They are basically rubber stamps. Without any actual opposition elsewhere in government it means anyone who doesn’t go with the flow in the commons immediately becomes the enemy and must be removed. That is not conducive to creating new leaders or challenging bad ideas.

The prime minister, his ministers, and all members of parliament are technically equal in terms of elected authority. Each is just a member of parliament. Historically that meant they were willing to challenge each other to some degree. Now its about toadying up to the boss and praying they reward them.

 

[TacticalTea]

The problem as I see it is more that the checks and balances our system is supposed to have/use, aren’t being used which has resulted in the need to completely consolidate all power at the house of commons level in the hands of the party leader.

The senate and governor general are supposed to act as checks and balances to our house of commons. They are basically rubber stamps. Without any actual opposition elsewhere in government it means anyone who doesn’t go with the flow in the commons immediately becomes the enemy and must be removed. That is not conducive to creating new leaders or challenging bad ideas.

The prime minister, his ministers, and all members of parliament are technically equal in terms of elected authority. Each is just a member of parliament. Historically that meant they were willing to challenge each other to some degree. Now its about toadying up to the boss and praying they reward them.

I think that's quite on the money.

Also in the American system, there is no immediate threat to the President, especially in his second term. So while the environment might still be cutthroat amongst interns and such, the Head honcho doesn't have to constantly be watching his back. This allows him to focus ahead.

~just a theory~

 

[Happy Guy]

Opinion piece by Mr. Don Martin. I totally agree with him.

In Justin Trudeau’s rapidly imploding world, everything sucks.

In a rare moment of reality-reflecting candour, the usually-scripted prime minister said as much to the New York Times last week.

“It really sucks right now. Like, everything sucks for people, even in Canada,” he told the editorial board. “People are mad . . . it’s a tough time . . . a sense of optimism is gone right now.”

Add in this week’s global fallout from the Liberal MP and Speaker who led the standing ovation for a former Nazi in the House of Commons and these are indeed the giddiest of times for Canadian opposition leaders.

Which is why Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre could’ve and should’ve done better this week at hitting numerous barn-sized targets on Trudeau’s forehead.

Affordability issues have driven the Conservatives into a double-digit polling lead in every region in every demographic. Inflation and the high cost of living were the focus of a summer ad campaign, which worked spectacularly well.

But polling momentum won’t build and the leader’s image won’t polish if Poilievre’s preoccupation remains on issues like his ongoing attack on Trudeau being away from the Commons for four of five days this week. Nobody cares in the real world.

Or on insisting the prime minister should’ve ordered a security background check on every invited guest in the House for the Ukrainian president’s visit. That may seem reasonable to a protégé of the control-freakish Harper era, but it isn’t within the PMO’s responsibility.

Or on whether Trudeau’s (late) apology should’ve been on behalf of his government, or himself (both), instead of parliamentarians.

And Poilievre certainly didn’t need to fall for the Trudeau bait on the contentious trans youth debate by tweeting his parents-know-best reaction to the prime minister’s simple we-value-everybody social media post.

The sheer volume of issues just this week where Conservatives could gain swing votes was too juicy to ignore.

We are just one week from Thanksgiving, the stated government deadline for grocery store chains to plan price stability at the checkout, and it's crickets from the executive suites.

There’s a billion-dollar spending cut aimed at the military, a travesty for the under-armed forces, which will unhinge furious allies viewing Canada as a defence freeloader, that is crying out for a furious government shaming.

This week’s warning from oh-so-credible former Bank of Canada governor David Dodge – that the Liberals are finally out of deficit-spending runway – deserved a lot more question period airtime.

Then there’s the government’s amended competition bill, released without adequate consultation, now attracting the ire of business leaders who warn it will scare away investment and actually reduce competition.

And the bonus for the Conservative’s popular axe-the-tax position was having the Canadian Climate Institute release its finding that emissions rose 2.1 per cent in 2022, despite Trudeau’s carbon pricing.

It’s hard to imagine a more perfect storm for opposition forces to take on, if not take down, a freefalling Liberal government.

Trudeau’s sunny ways have been eclipsed by so many dark shadows as to create a world that’s unrecognizable from his 2015 swearing-in as prime minister.

But Poilievre must still beat down the perception that he is a tiny-fisted ball of hate who sees everyone outside his narrow political bandwidth as an enemy to be ridiculed and crushed.

By fixating blame on Trudeau for events beyond his control like the Nazi mess, Poilievre caters to an image that is the opposite of prime ministerial.

The government he officially opposes has become a giant sucking sound as its credibility, morale and re-election chances gurgle down the drain.

All Pierre Poilievre needs to do to win the next election is make sure the drain doesn’t get plugged up with doubts about his leadership or extreme ideological gunk.

That’s the bottom line.

Given the last two CPC leaders, I wonder if Mr. Poilievre will indeed shoot himself in the foot too.

 

[Quirky]

Given the last two CPC leaders, I wonder if Mr. Poilievre will indeed shoot himself in the foot too.

If Canadians re elect this imbecile government and leadership, they get what they deserve.

 

[Good2Golf]

Given the last two CPC leaders, I wonder if Mr. Poilievre will indeed shoot himself in the foot too.

Depends if the PRC is also interfering with Poilievre…

 

[The Bread Guy]

... people are, to an extent, just tired of JT and his BS ... they have to know they need a centrist Liberal to win now...

Yup, but nobody's brave enough to stick his/her neck out yet. Look at the Conservative leadership, where a lot of folks who MANY thought would do a good job didn't even step up.

... If they don't they have their heads in the sand ...

People in the Team Red brain trust know. If former Liberal blog commentators are literally screaming in public "do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!", the inner hive knows. I don't know if it's 1) not telling The Boss info they don't want to hear, or 2) telling the truth & offering advice, which is ignored.