University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]

[Ridgeline]

I have searched the forums for the information, but it is either old or not really what I am looking for.

Therefore if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated, or if you could help answer my question.

I have a BA in History and I want to join the forces (armour) as a ncm.  I would like to be a NCM for 5 - 7 years and then transfer to be an officer.  I would like information relating to diffrent options to do this.

Also if anyone has a similar story I would really like to hear your story,

Cheers

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

 

[MMSS]

If you already have a degree then you can enter directly as an officer. If it makes you feel better you can just draw NCM pay for the first five years and send me the difference

 

[Ridgeline]

I am 25, just finished my degree.

I do know and have thought about DEO.  I have excellent management skills as I own a company .. therefore leadership is not a problem, nor is Money. Also looking at the pay scales the ratio between officer and ncm isn't really that big for the first 5 years, after that however it is significant enough for me to transfer.

But again money is not why I would like to join, I would like to become a ncm for the experience.  I feel it would personally make me a better officer and relate better to the people under me.

With that said I fully intend to become an officer, I am just wondering what kind of programs are available to ncm's to become officers

 

[Container]

I have excellent management skills as I own a company .. therefore leadership is not a problem,

Just peaking my nose in- dont mistake management for leadership. Often we suffer under managers with no leadership ability.

 

[OldSolduer]

Just peaking my nose in- dont mistake management for leadership. Often we suffer under managers with no leadership ability.

You are absolutely right. Leadership and management are very different creatures.

 

[Ridgeline]

agreed, management is diffrent then leadership; however you have to have management for any organisation to function properly.  leadership then follows from organised and efficient management.  You have to know what your goals are to lead your people to that specific goal.

With that said,  I just feel that it would be a great value to be a ncm then become an officer.  Either way, it's life experience.

 

[ModlrMike]

Given the info you've provided, SRCP (Special Requirements Commissioning Plan) might be appropriate. It's not offered every year, nor necessarily open to every classification. A BA in History might make for a weaker application. The programme is intended for NCMs with degrees to enter classifications where their degree is useful.

This is opinion only, and not gospel.

 

[Ridgeline]

don't say what you have a degree in, so I can't comment more.

I did mention that I have a History degree

But thank you for the information I will take a look at it

 

[ModlrMike]

I did mention that I have a History degree

But thank you for the information I will take a look at it

You must have posted this just as I was revising mine.  ;D

 

[Ridgeline]

It's all good,

Thanks for the information, It looks like what I was attempting to find.

 

[George Wallace]

If you already have a degree then you can enter directly as an officer. If it makes you feel better you can just draw NCM pay for the first five years and send me the difference

A rather ignorant comment.

Ridgeline

Many with a Degree, such as you, and in the same age group have joined the CF as NCMs.  This is not something new.

 

[Ridgeline]

Thanks George,

I figured that it's not that uncommon, I just have not found much on the site for people who went that route and options for advancement.

Cheers

 

[George Wallace]

Options for advacement are like in any occupation.  It is the individual and their knowledge, skill sets, personality, capabilities, etc.  A slug will always stay a slug.  Someone who is on the ball and keen will advance much quicker. 

 

[Steve031]

I went through this process last year, and I can tell you that it is definitely easier to become an officer as a civilian coming off the street than as an NCM.  When you've been in the army already for a while you'll have accumulated a large number of documents outlining your successes and failures as a soldier.  The army will already have a pretty good idea of what kind of soldier you are.  This means that during your MANY interviews leading up to your selection you'll have to continuously justify why, for example, on your course report from DP1 you only got average on one of your evaluation points when all the rest were above average.  A civilian has the advantage of the army having nothing other than the records provided by the applicant.

So, it's a mixed bag.  I don't regret my time as an NCM, and I know that it's made my courses as an officer a little easier.  I think my troops can identify with me a little more easily as well (although this can put you in a difficult situation at times).  At the same time, if you ultimately want to be an officer then what are you waiting for?  Don't waste your time or the army's money on training you to do a job that you don't really want to do.

When I joined the recruiter pushed me toward becoming an officer, but I was convinced by talking to a bunch of NCMs that I wouldn't have much of a chance of going overseas as one in the reserves.  Turns out, a year later we started the mission in Kandahar and 2 officers from my unit were there.  By the time I went, I could have been done my officer training and gone as an officer anyways.  And it would have been in a position more suited to me personally.  So make your own decision, and be brutally honest with yourself about what you really want.

 

[MMSS]

Also looking at the pay scales the ratio between officer and ncm isn't really that big for the first 5 years, after that however it is significant enough for me to transfer.

Based on the pay scales currently posted, Private starts at 2663/mo whereas DEO officer would start at 3644. Approximately 1000/mo or 12000/year doesn't seem insignificant. I am also no expert in the field however I do not believe that you can just choose to become an officer - you would either have to be commissioned from the ranks or VR and reapply.

A rather ignorant comment.

After looking back, you're right. Apologies.

 

[George Wallace]

Steve031


I would hesitate to apply the Reserve experience to a Reg Force application in this case.  As a Reservist, the officers usually benefit from much better training on their DP (Phase) Crses in Gagetown than the NCMs at Area Trg Centers, until they (NCMs) reach their PLQ.  By that time the officers have gained much more experience.  The same is not true in the Regular Force, where NCMs and officers basically start out on an even plane; with the opportunities to go on courses and deploy being better for NCMs and become more limited to officers as they progress up the leadership ladder. 

 

[MJP]

. I am also no expert in the field however I do not believe that you can just choose to become an officer - you would either have to be commissioned from the ranks or VR and reapply.

Then why even comment?  You are completely out to lunch as there are several plans for an NCM with a degree to gain his commission and none of them involve having to VR.  Some of them have already been mentioned in the thread and there is an enormous thread NCO to officer that outlines all the other ones.

 

[Ridgeline]

Based on the pay scales currently posted, Private starts at 2663/mo whereas DEO officer would start at 3644. Approximately 1000/mo or 12000/year doesn't seem insignificant.

Sorry, I meant after the first year they are 3256 ncm and 3952 deo.  700 a month is not a large difference to me.  It is then insignificant

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Most of my related experience is helping Corporals with the University Training Program Non-Commissioned Member (UTPNCM) plan, but your situation would fit the Special Commissioning Plan (SCP) under CFAO 9-70. This program is for NCMs who have a BA and essentially brings them in as DEO officers. There is no minimum time, but you need your QL3/DP1 training completed and have demonstrated the personal qualities and job performance required for an officer.

I can understand your desire to serve as an NCM first to gain experiene and perspective (I was a  Trooper for a bit in the Reserves), but since you already want to be an officer maybe save yourself some time and simply enroll as a DEO? Having said that, only you know what is best for your situation and it is you that will have to live with your choices. I know many officers who served as Regular Force NCMs (Cpl to Sgt) for a while before commissioning in their late 20s to mid 30s and they do very well. I note, though, that they had joined as NCMs right out of high school so they were fairly young when they started.

Best of luck regardless!