University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]

[Pusser]

I know of at least one officer who was a CPO2 in a hard sea trade who commissioned as a Log officer under SCP - a complete career shift.  So yes, it is possible to become an officer through SCP in a completely different field.  The benefit of doing it this way was no loss of benefits and being commissioned as a Lt(N) vice an A/SLt.

 

[kawa11]

Hope I'm in the right forum with this one.

What happens if a member (say a Corporal or Sergeant whose awaiting promotion) completes a university program and applies to become an officer?

Would they take a step down in pay to take a step forward in rank & responsibility?



Here's the logic behind the question:
Corporal / Standard / 4 = 4733
Sergeant / Standard / 4 = 5351
2nd Lieutenant / CFR / Basic = 4708


ref: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/payscales-131

 

[PuckChaser]

You have vested rights to your pay and if you CFR/UTPNCM you will maintain your current pay level until the officer pay scale surpasses the NCM one.

 

[kawa11]

You have vested rights to your pay and if you CFR/UTPNCM you will maintain your current pay level until the officer pay scale surpasses the NCM one.

I assumed it would follow along the lines of the labour code (ie. can not have you wages reduced unless the Gov't files the changes) but wasn't 100%.

I guess this means the extra work pursuing a degree won't bite me in the ***.

 

[George Wallace]

You could use the SEARCH function now that you know what "Vested Rights" are and find some good answers to your question.

Here is one:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/43870/post-381908.html#msg381908

 

[vonGarvin]

As a former NCO who was accepted in the UTPNCM programme many years ago, I can speak with a bit of authority on this one.

Whilst at the rank of Officer Cadet, I received the same pay I would have received, including incentive and other pay raises, had I remained a MCpl.  Upon receiving my commission, my salary was that same rate of pay (eg: MCpl Incentive 4) plus xxx dollars per month.  Every year I remained a Lt (3 to be exact), I received an incentive pay raise of xxx dollars per month.  If at any time the rate of pay of MCpl Incentive 4 increased, I too received that increase.

Upon promotion to captain, MCpl Incentive 4 plus 3 * (xxx) dollars per month was less than Capt Incentive 0, so I started receiving Capt Incentive 0.

Had my pay as a Lt been more than Capt Incentive 0, then my rate of pay would have been the next higher level.

 

[Journeyman]

I guess this means the extra work pursuing a degree won't bite me ....

Work towards a degree will help make you a better informed individual (if only for exposing you to differing perspectives), and is considered when writing PERs, whether officer or NCM, regardless of your longer-term goals.



Mind you, I occasionally catch myself saying "there are perhaps other interpretations of the data," when I still mean "bu11shit." 

 

[observor 69]

Work towards a degree will help make you a better informed individual (if only for exposing you to differing perspectives), and is considered when writing PERs, whether officer or NCM, regardless of your longer-term goals.

Go Queen's.....    > 

 

[justmyalias]

I've always wondered., how does it work then?

You are an Officer Cadet., but get your former Reserve pay...on your pay statement., does it show that you are getting OCDT pay (but is actually your former NCM rank pay?)

Of course Res MCpl to Reg MCpl., would be the same., as an example., not only from NCM -> Officer.

Isn't this a little confusing, or do they note that this is a unique circumstance for Pay & Rank not coinciding with the norm?

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Long and short of it is get into CBI 209. It deals with pay and for officers below the rank of Capt it really depends on your Commisioning path.  For example there are 5 Pay catagories for OCdt\2Lt\Lt so that when you do CFR\UTPNCM\CEOTP you maintain your "vested right to pay" in my case I was a LS\4 and upon comisioning went to 2Lt Pay Cat C IPC 3 or 4 I can't remember now, long and short I got a bit of a raise.

 

[agc]

204 is pay.  209 is transportation and travelling expenses.

 

[Muttenthaler]

I've always wondered., how does it work then?

You are an Officer Cadet., but get your former Reserve pay...on your pay statement., does it show that you are getting OCDT pay (but is actually your former NCM rank pay?)

Of course Res MCpl to Reg MCpl., would be the same., as an example., not only from NCM -> Officer.

Isn't this a little confusing, or do they note that this is a unique circumstance for Pay & Rank not coinciding with the norm?

Your pay will show up as your current rate of pay. Don't worry, if you have competant clerks, then they will input this correctly and you won'tr even notice, unless you're paying attention (which you shoudl be doing, it's your pay). If you're going Reg F, then you're going to be getting your last rank from the reserves, but at the Reg F rate of pay, and you will receive that rate until your officer rank and IPC cathces up and surpasses your current rate of pay.

There are formulas in the CBI that clerks must follow in order to determine your rate of pay. You can look for yourself, or ask your CClk. they're based on your previous service, total time in, etc..

If you need to know anything else just PM or e-mail me.

 

[armybrat85]

Good morning!

Firstly, this is my first post on this forum. I'm not sure if the topic is in the right section however so forgive me if it is misplaced. Here is the story:
-currently employed as Leading Seaman with 180+ days class B at Naval Reserve Headquarters
-have no university degree however i'm accepted at Laval U and I do some evening classes
-applied for transfer as Armored Officer by emailing +D MIL a month ago and they confirmed reception
-would like to do UTPNCM at RMC in History/Strategic studies

I am wondering, how does it work for UTPNCM? Will they contact me and say "OK here is how you can do it."? Or should I write back and inform them of what I would like to do?

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[aesop081]

You will have to see a personel selection officer......That email will do nothing for you.

 

[MJP]

Lots of info on UTPNCM here on the boards.  Do a google search with the parameters site:army.ca UTPNCM and you will get some good threads.

Quickly though you apply for UTPNCM and if you have a strong enough application are then accepted.  I would suggest reading CFAO 9-13 for a better understanding of the programme.

 

[armybrat85]

Wow! Thanks for the fast reply and info. I will contact a BPSO and check out this forum in more detail. I think I already read the CFAO 9-13 but will consult again just to make sure.

Thanks again!

 

[Blackadder1916]

-currently employed as Leading Seaman with 180+ days class B at Naval Reserve Headquarters

I am wondering, how does it work for UTPNCM? Will they contact me and say "OK here is how you can do it."? Or should I write back and inform them of what I would like to do?

Perhaps you should read the applicable orders and regulations.

CFAO 9-13  University Training Plan -- Non-Commissioned Members (UTPNCM)
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/009-13-eng.asp

Some pertinent extracts.

3. UTPNCM is limited to members of the Regular Force who are not officers. . . . . .

APPLICATION
11. Announcement of the annual competition will be promulgated by message.  . . . . .

The message for the 2012 UTPNCM competition can be found here.
http://www.cfsuo-usfco.forces.gc.ca/adm/pdp-pps/doc/gen-140-2011-eng.asp

 

[aesop081]

Some pertinent extracts.

He emailed D Mil so he must be trying for a CT at the same time.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Unless things have changed (and it is quite possible they have since I retired), if he's applied for CT to Reg Force and is seeking a concurrent subsidized university education plan then it is "ROTP" not "UTPNCM" that he should be researching. 

 

[aesop081]

if he's applied for CT to Reg Force and is seeking a concurrent subsidized university education plan then it is "ROTP" not "UTPNCM" that he should be researching.

Not the way i read it.