U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[The_Falcon]

Not to mention that they are taking jobs that Canadian's can do.
Initially my attitude was to bring the cowards back for justice. Now I think a permanent exile is more fitting. They can never return to the US without running the risk of arrest as deserters. I dont want them back as they are a disgrace.

What makes you think we want to keep them, although if they really really wanna stay I am sure some remote community in Nunavut can use the extra helping hands 

 

[cgyflames01]

I shudder to imagine the day that the NDP rules Canada (sorry, it'll be the Union of Canadian Socialist Republics when that happens).

Amen!!!
If a American were fleeing his country, to aliveate harm from the countries leadership (War in Iraq) . Would that make him a refugee? In no way do I support desertion, but if a Afghani serviceman were to flee to Canada, would we send him back?
Anyway, the American culture was built on desertion, the pilgrims left Europe in fear of religious persecution. When the going gets tough the Americans get running.

 

[paracowboy]

Amen!!!
If a American were fleeing his country, to aliveate harm from the countries leadership (War in Iraq) . Would that make him a refugee? In no way do I support desertion, but if a Afghani serviceman were to flee to Canada, would we send him back?
Anyway, the American culture was built on desertion, the pilgrims left Europe in fear of religious persecution. When the going gets tough the Americans get running.

uuhh, you may want to crack open a history book, dude. The same people that founded the USA founded Canada. And yeah, the Yanks are runnin' all right: into the fight. While we sit back, under their protection, and pretend we have some sort of moral high ground.

As for the Afghani: if he were a felon (as deserters are) then I would certainly hope we would send his ass back.  And what does this sentence even mean?

If a American were fleeing his country, to aliveate harm from the countries leadership (War in Iraq) .

 

[larry Strong]

Not to mention tax dollars going into court cases. Hell we are probably paying for their lawyers also! Don't even let them cross the border in the first place.

 

[Baloo]

There is quite good support for this guy to stay. I had a conversation, which eventually turned into an argument about the deserters, and the commie campuses (in Toronto at least) circle leaflets and petitions to have him stay in Canada, and support resisting the war. I found it quite astonishing how much support he has.

Eventually, the argument boiled down to this. She couldn't understand the military perspective. My views were innately expressed with a certain amount of military comeraderie and duty involved, and she didn't get it, in her words. A lot of people think that you need to stand up for what you believe in (even if it means running away and tying up a system meant to be the genuinely disadvantaged...).

I don't understand that logic. So, in other words, I can get all the benefits of something, but when it comes down to it, if I don't believe in the commitment phase, I can turn my back? That's like me receiving welfare, but when I get a job, I refuse to pay taxes because I don't want to feed the system. Perhaps we should do an elective system, where I can only pay to support whom I want, when I want.

 

[winchable]

Short drop, Sudden stop.
Desertion (make no mistake, being a conscientious objector requires one to stand their ground) is one subject I am far from liberal on, there's no excuse for it in a modern professional and most notably volunteer army.
When the draft is initiated, come talk, though even then you should stay in your country and fight for your principles, if not your brothers in arms.

 

[Kunu]

Anyway, the American culture was built on desertion, the pilgrims left Europe in fear of religious persecution. When the going gets tough the Americans get running.

The pilgrims left England for completely different reasons than these deserters.  To make a long and vivid story short, England at the time was for the most part ruled by oppressive, unelected monarchs and a system which allowed very little opportunity for personal advancement if one didn't agree with the system (such as by way of religious beliefs, for example).  The pilgrims left behind the certain (albeit arguably crappy) life they had in order to travel to an unknown land for the hope that they could help build and live in a system governed by fair principles of their choosing.  It is an insult to associate these courageous people with cowards who blatently signed on for the various perks but then hightailed it once their end of the bargain came up. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Anyway, the American culture was built on desertion, the pilgrims left Europe in fear of religious persecution. When the going gets tough the Americans get running.

What an utter load of tripe! Where did you spend your last 20 yrs? Likely in your backyard, listening to the CBC and reading the G&M.

Try bending way over at the waist. Reach back and gently spread your butt cheeks. Hear that "pop"?................... That was your head coming out.

 

[Dogboy]

As much AS I don't agree with the US foreign policy or much of what it stands for I don't feel as sorry for the guys who Enlisted with the US army Reg. force and now want out
any look at history shows that the US loves war and has prity much bin in other country's business since its inception.
now say someone in the National guard who joined just to protect the home land or as something to do on weekends they have more of a Case for desertion.

 

[Gouki]

No they don't, they sign the dotted line like everyone else and are told of what may happen.

 

[x-grunt]

now say someone in the National guard who joined just to protect the home land or as something to do on weekends they have more of a Case for desertion.

Army is Army, be full or part time. Just like our Militia, if war is declared and you have signed on, you go or if you must object, stand your ground and take your lumps like a man. That's the USANG agreement, just like us. Deserting is for conscripts and cowards IMO.

Baloo:

...commie campuses...

Gotta say I hate inflamatory language like that. I attend one of those "commie campuses" part time and have had some great conversations with left-leaning types, and met lots of right-leaners too.

She couldn't understand the military perspective.

Yeah, I have had that too. It helps to describe the Military to university types as a distinct sub-culture, with cultural norms that differ from others. Much like some people have a hard time understanding Native issues (as an example), the military is often misunderstood too. When I have approached these conversations as educational opportunities they seem to go better.

Canada has never seemed to integrate the military into the main culture to the extent the US or the UK have. Then again, they've both suffered wars/conflicts on their soil in the last century or so, and we haven't. I'll bet the populations of those countries would have less tolerance about the desertion issue if the situation were reversed.

But I digress from the topic, my apologies. Has this been beaten to death, or what?

 

[paracowboy]

any look at history shows that the US loves war and has prity much bin in other country's business since its inception.

elaborate, please. Elucidate us, because I have never seen this, and I consider myself to be fairly wide-read.

 

[Danjanou]

elaborate, please. Elucidate us, because I have never seen this, and I consider myself to be fairly wide-read.

Yeah what he said. ???

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The US of A has been at one war or another, for every generation since WW1 and even before. All the conflicts have taken major resources as far as personnel. Anybody over there that decides to join and make any sort of career of it, should know he's likely to be called. He should expect it and accept it. If he gambles and loses, to bad. If you roll the dice and they come up snake eyes, you reach in your pocket and pay the piper. Joining the game, losing, then saying you don't have the money (guts) makes you the biggest asshole in the world, worthy   only of being shunned by the rest of the players.

 

[Infanteer]

Didn't one of you guys give these dudes a ride to the border or something - why are we still hearing about them?  ^-^

 

[Dogboy]

OK to save time Ill just start from after WW2
1948. Marines in China to Protect the Embassy and evacuate citizens when Shanghai fell to the communist
1950-53. Korea
1950-63. USA helps fund French war with North Vietnam and has advisor's on the ground
53-79. CIA and MI-5 help put the the Shah in power in Iran after the government threatened to nationalize the oil holdings
54. USA funded a Right wing Military Coup  in Guatemala
58. 8,000 in Lebanon
59.US Marines in Haiti to Advise "Papa Doc's" gov.
60.CIA sponsors a Military Junta takeover in Ecuador
62. CIA backs Military Coup in Brazil
64.  CIA backs Military Coup in Zaire
64-75 Gulf of Tonken incident starts heavy US involvement in Vietnam
65. US Intervened in Dominican Republic 20,000 us troops on the ground
65. CIA backs Military Coup in in Greece
66. CIA backs dearth squads in El Salvador
70. US invades Cambodia
71. CIA backs Military Coup in Bolivia
72. US gov. funds and backs Military Coup in Uruguay
81. USAF plane shot down 2 Libyan jets
82 US  support of Coup in Guatemala
83.US invades Grenada over 7,000 troops on the ground
86. US attacks drug Refineries in Bolivia they are back in full production in 6 months
88. USS Vincennes invaded Iranian waters and shot down Iran air flight #665 killing 290 civ.
89. 600+ advisers in Colombia, Bolivia , and Peru
89. Gen. Noriega finaley lost US support and was Captured.
he was  supported since 66 and was a know drug smuggler since 72
90.the US NED (National Endowment for Democracy )  funds more then $2 mill. to try to prevent socialist gov. from being elected. after the socialist won a 6 month destabilization campaign forced them out.
91. Desert storm 1 starts up
92. US troops in Somalia 30,000 on the ground
94. US invades Haiti to restore the rightfully elected gov.(for a change)
96. US admits to providing training to Rwandan soldiers who invaded Zaire(tho some witnesses clam seeing US men)
2002. US supported the overthrow of the elected gov. in Venezuela . popular uprising returned it to power.

 

[Hedgehog18]

If you got what it takes to sign up do Boot camp and what not then when  your country goes to war shut up turn of your moral objections and do what your told to do !  not run away like a lil B****  .. its not like anyone ponited a gun to there head 

IMO
Howie

 

[paracowboy]

and this list proves the "US loves war" how? I see several distortions of fact (readjust your tinfoil beanie, some of the rays must be getting through), and a number of actions in which many nations participated (including, oh, CANADA).

Seek therapy. Seriously.

 

[2 Cdo]

Speaking as a soldier who has trained with many of our allies and enjoyed/learned something from all of them I definely take offense to Dogboy's obvious dislike for anything American! It's been said that bashing Americans has become a sport in Canada and Dogboy seems to be one of those players! Grow up, the US might not be perfect but I'd take them as a neighbour anyday over most others!

 

[c4th]

that bashing Americans has become a sport in Canada

Yeah!, let's get back to bashing Toronto.