U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[George Wallace]

I just think of them this way....As an employer; what kind of dedication would they have to their job?  If I had to deal with them through a 'Contract'; would they honour that contract or break it?  If their previous history of breaking a 'Contract' with the US Forces is taken into account, I would deem them undesirable as employees or clients.  My 'Trust' in them is non-existant.

 

[Redeye]

It seems the highest profile of this gang of crooks, Jeremy Hinzmann, is speaking in my town some time this month.  I can't believe he's still here, I hope the Federal Court throws out his appeal and he's marched straight to the border and into the open arms of the MPs.

It's no wonder so many denied refugee claimants end up staying in Canada, after they lose their case, we don't throw them out!

 

[Glorified Ape]

The real question is, even if all stated were true, where is your list of what the Russians and Chinese were doing in the world to require these actions?

Ah, I see - the US isn't responsible for anything it does - it's the evil commies. Ok McCarthy. :

  Again, the evidence is generally from the various left-wing sources.   Perhaps true...after shipment of Soviet arms to the Guatemalan government, something usually forgotten by the conspiracy theorists.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1999/03/990311-guat2.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/march99/clinton11.htm

But then I guess their decision not to opt for US preferences justified that. Again, not the US' fault - it was the evil commies that made them do it. I swear, the Ameriphiles sound more and more like what cons think "Liberals" say every day - "It's the victim's fault".."It's not the criminal's fault, it's society's"..etc. Blame everyone but the one responsible.

As for deserters, if the deserter can establish that the War in Iraq is illegal, he has every right to stay. I believe that was addressed by the courts, however, and they couldn't find that the war was illegal so ruled against the deserters. Pretty clear. While I don't support the deserters (necessarily), I think "cowardice" is a little too simplistic a descriptor. I wouldn't characterize someone's desertion, based on conscience, to be cowardice, regardless of its legality or illegality, unless the case for conscientious objection was so far-fetched as to be fabricated. Would you be a coward if you deserted from the Canadian military because its invasion of Belgium over a trade dispute conflicted with your conscience? I don't believe you would be. You'd be responsible for your actions but I wouldn't say you'd be a coward.

 

[48Highlander]

They're not cowards because they refused to go to war, they're cowards because they ran away to Canada.  That's been stated numerous times already.  If you want to desert that's your decision, but stay in the country, take responsibility for your actions, and try to fight for what you beleive is right.

And what the hell was that about commies and guatamala?  Your point got lost somewhere in the rest of the gormless diatribe.

 

[48Highlander]

No, they are cowards because they refused to fight. They signed on the dotted line (and this Jeremy Numbty-F*** did it for education money) and when the poo hits the fan they run away like scared little rabbits. They are cowards and traitors pure and simple.

Let 'em hang for all I care.

Signing on the dotted line is not equivalent to selling your soul.   If fomeonse orders me to mow down a crowd of unarmed women and children, I don't care if it's the Minister of National Defence himself, I'll tell 'im exactly where to shove it.   Nowhere during the swearing in ceremony, and certainly nowhere in any contract I've signed, did I ever promise to do something I beleive is moraly wrong.

Therefore:   if these individuals truly did beleive that the war in Iraq was wrong and immoral, they should have refused to go, faced the consequences, and used their court cases as a rallying point for others.   Running away is what makes them cowards.

 

[J.J]

Is it against Canadian law to desert from the US?

MP,
It is actually against several laws. To name a few....These "refugee's"  as they like to call themselves would not be claiming refugee status at the Point of Entry as their application would be refused as it would not meet "Safe Third Country" and they would be sent back to waiting arms of CBP, they would have to to make the claim inland. Therefore they would have to lie to the Border Services Officer on their intentions on entering Canada. They would be in violation of the  Customs Act, Immigration Act & The Criminal Code of Canada. It is against the law to lie to a Border Services Officer. If you commit an offence in another country that would be an offence in Canada it is a criminal act in Canada. The Mounties use this provision to arrest/convict the  Canadian dopers who do business in the US. I believe because of the left leaning government we have in place is why they are being coddled and not arrested but eventually their claims are denied, they are returned to the US and they will receive what they deserve.

 

[Cloud Cover]

MP,
It is actually against several laws. To name a few....These "refugee's"   as they like to call themselves would not be claiming refugee status at the Point of Entry as their application would be refused as it would not meet "Safe Third Country" and they would be sent back to waiting arms of CBP, they would have to to make the claim inland. Therefore they would have to lie to the Border Services Officer on their intentions on entering Canada. They would be in violation of the   Customs Act, Immigration Act & The Criminal Code of Canada. It is against the law to lie to a Border Services Officer.

If you commit an offence in another country that would be an offence in Canada it is a criminal act in Canada. The Mounties use this provision to arrest/convict the   Canadian dopers who do business in the US. I believe because of the left leaning government we have in place is why they are being coddled and not arrested but eventually their claims are denied, they are returned to the US and they will receive what they deserve.

Just for clarification, must the rule you have pointed out only apply to Canadian citizens or landed immigrants and even then for certain designated offences? Are criminal code offences that constitute certain property offences in Canada, or Canadian tax offences that carry potential prison sentences actual offences when they are not even known to law in some foreign jurisdictions and committed in foreign jurisdictions? Is that not why the off shore banking and investment industries are attractive to many Canadians with enough money to hire experts to look after their money?    

As far as the deserters go, I wish the US would just come and grab them or perhaps arrange to smuggle them out in one of those garbage trucks from Toronto that cross the border everyday.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If you're a Conscientious Objector, you don't join armed forces. Period. If you're drafted despite your claim to CO status, you ask to fill a GC non-combatant position (eg. medical).  There's no excuse for desertion, ever.  If you are active in a war you believe to be unjust or illegal, or given what you believe to be a manifestly unlawful order, you refuse to "pull the trigger" and accept the consequences.

 

[Danjanou]

As far as the deserters go, I wish the US would just come and grab them or perhaps arrange to smuggle them out in one of those garbage trucks from Toronto that cross the border everyday.

Now this has possibilities. Anyone up for a planning session over a beer?  ;D

 

[48Highlander]

Now this has possibilities. Anyone up for a planning session over a beer?   ;D

You buying? 

 

[Danjanou]

Sorry already reached by quota of " the rival oatmeal savage regiment" members I've had to buy for this month. Ask Tess or Bossi. ;D

 

[TheNomad]

Are people really suggesting that the US should be able to just walk across the border and take these people?  Are there any other circumstances that you feel the US should be able to just walk in and do what it likes in Canada?

I always thought that Canada was an independent country and proud of it.

Like many of you I am no fan of deserters, but I would rather keep them than allow a foreign country to breach the soverignty of my country to exercise its laws where they do not apply.

 

[Redeye]

Not that this is on topic, but most of the actual battlefield at Crysler's Farm is underwater now because of the Seaway.  There's an impressive little museum on the Seaway Parkway about the battle though.

 

[J.J]

whiskey601,
The C.C. of C. applies to anyone in Canada, regardless of their citizenship or residency. The application of the C.C. of C. is another story.

 

[48Highlander]

Sorry already reached by quota of " the rival oatmeal savage regiment" members I've had to buy for this month. Ask Tess or Bossi. ;D

Damn.

Are people really suggesting that the US should be able to just walk across the border and take these people?   Are there any other circumstances that you feel the US should be able to just walk in and do what it likes in Canada?

I always thought that Canada was an independent country and proud of it.

Like many of you I am no fan of deserters, but I would rather keep them than allow a foreign country to breach the soverignty of my country to exercise its laws where they do not apply.

Guess you're not buying either?

We were advocating (and largely as a joke) driving the bastards back to the US in one of those garbage trucks that we send to Michigan every day.  You, ofcourse, decided to focus on the other part of that quote.

 

[48Highlander]

Was he asked to mow do children? No.

He was asked to fight he was for his country.

He refused to fight. Therefore he is a coward seeing as he had no good reason to refuse.

How the hell did you pass your aptitude testing?  Listen, they were asked to do something which they claim conflicts with their morals.  What that something is is immaterial.  If you can't understand that there's not much more I can say to you.

 

[Brad Sallows]

In that case, signing on the line conflicted with their morals.  Such people should not join armed forces in the first place.

 

[48Highlander]

Ok, either I'm going insane, or your statement has absolutely no logical connection to what I was saying...

 

[paracowboy]

Ok, either I'm going insane, or your statement has absolutely no logical connection to what I was saying...

I thought both arguements tied in well with yours. Actually, you're all saying the same damn thing, but you're all picking fly shit from pepper. It's kinda funny from the outside.  ;D

 

[Sapper Bloggins]

Canada is neither a safe-house of Al Qaida sympathizers, nor is refuge stop for US deserters shirking their national responsibility as volunteer soldiers. This isn't the Vietnam War, and these bumpkins volunteered to enlist, with the attendant benefits and risks that the profession brings.

You suck it up, shut up, roll the dice, and take your chances as a voluntary member of the military, whichever country you have enlisted with, irrespective of your CIC's policies.

Just like these deserters must face the consequences of their fears of going to Iraq, now they'll have to face the fear of a prison term. I'd bet the odds would have been better for them had they fulfilled their obligation.

What a sad statement to be remembered as someone who didn't honor their word. Sad because now their families will be stigmatized as a result of their choices. They had other choices besides running and should have made them to lessen the consequence of time in jail. They all knew what they were choosing and the gamble required NO BALLS. Successful gamblers know the odds of winning have to be in their favor, not against, or there isn't anything to gain. That's the whole point of a gamble...to win, or why bother.
Of course a gambler just looses his money, these boys are loosing more than money, they loose their dignity.