Religious Discussion

[Trinity]

That list that Trinity provides is fascinating - it is a really nice good for "Comparative Religiosity" (is that a word?).

It is now.

So, doesn't this conflict with the CF policy Zero-Tolerance policy regarding Racism that every applicant signs during the recruiting process?

My first guess would be yes.. but I refuse put any offical comment on it.
We had a Sgt. become one (who was white no less), simply to prove you could be one when the system
told him he couldn't. 

But just because the religion is listed, doesn't mean we have many or any in that denomination.  I'd be
surprised if we have any Jehova's since they don't want to swear alliegence to any country (according to the link
which is government AND all the facts on that site are confirmed with the corresponding religious authorities.)

**moderator note:  fixed quote box
*** author note: had to refix your refix... lol

 

[sigpig]

I have always found that the greatest hatreds in religion are spawned between the closest related faiths.  As an outsider, I have watched with amusement (in Canada) or profound disgust (the many wonderful places the CF sends us overseas), the way faiths so close in doctrine happily savage each other, while largely ignoring those that hold fundamental differences.

Very well said. As an atheist I regularly post on christianforums and the way the 'good christians' there beat the living hell out of each other is just astounding, and sad but funny. Every flavour, every version is the 'right one.' Much as we see here, different man-made interpretations of  'what god wants' drive people to some very different ideas and beliefs. And of course, each one is right because god is on their side.

 

[Trinity]

Every flavour, every version is the 'right one.' Much as we see here, different man-made interpretations of  'what god wants' drive people to some very different ideas and beliefs. And of course, each one is right because god is on their side.

Yeah... thats pretty sad. 

No religion is the right religion.  No denomination is the correct denomination.  Anyone who claims that
they are usually loses my respect very quickly. 

As for positing on Christian boards... christians like any other group, have their fanatics who will judge and shun
others until the day they die. 

 

[Warvstar]

Yeah... thats pretty sad. 

No religion is the right religion.  No denomination is the correct denomination.  Anyone who claims that
they are usually loses my respect very quickly. 

As for positing on Christian boards... christians like any other group, have their fanatics who will judge and shun
others until the day they die. 

From what I read you say no one religion is the right religion? Well from what the Christian Bible says you have to believe in Christ and his message. Christ says in the Bible that he is the only way.

 

[Trinity]

Yes..

I believe that is in the Gospel of John. But only in the Gospel of John.
There are three other gospels which don't say that.  Thus, there are
other interpretations which don't necessarily agree.

The bible also has two creation stories... but both can't be correct!
The bible says turn your plowshares into swords... but also says
in other books turn your swords into plowshares.

 

[aesop081]

The bible says turn your plowshares into swords... but also says
in other books turn your plowshares into swords.

shouldnt that be the other way around ?

 

[Trinity]

LOL    ;D ;D


Was doing 2 MSN conversation while typing this post... 

Its corrected in the original post

Thanks...

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

From what I read you say no one religion is the right religion? Well from what the Christian Bible says you have to believe in Christ and his message. Christ says in the Bible that he is the only way.

    As a pagan I found that the Bible, Torah, and Koran that are supposed to be the founding doctrine of the faith you people all share is less of a foundation, and more like a quote book for many of you.  You go to it with your prejudices, look up supporting citations, and charge out to attack each other.  I have actually studied the self-conflicting texts in a variety of translations, and it does require a certain degree of scholarship to interpret as it does use parable and paradox to instruct and enlighten.  On the whole, religious scholars of all three books share much more agreement than their street level adherents, and a greater acceptance of each others creed.  The arrogance that I find most amazing, is that all three faiths seem perfectly willing to declare (in any of their conflicting denominations) that they and only they can offer the Word of God.  Now I am an Odinist, and our teachings were never as codified as the Judeo-Christian-Muslim faiths, but the idea of one of our priests declaring that they could speak for Odin, and that their words alone could show the way to Valhalla would be laughable to us.  The gods are not men, they are quite beyond mortal understanding.  To claim to speak the whole truth of divine wisdom in earthly language is ridiculous.  Why do you think most religious instruction is in the form of parable and paradox?  Because the essential truths of divinity can only be imperfectly understood by us.  Why are their so many faiths?  A Sikh friend of mine uses the parable of the diamond, each faith is a facet of the diamond, all shine with the light of the central truth, but none can encompass its entirety.  Each facet is different, each light unique, but shine from the same source, and carry the same truth.  To each is given a portion of the truth, and each is a path to salvation, the whole truth is beyond mortal ken.  Listening to the last few pages of posts arguing minor doctrinal differences, as if they in some fashion could coerce god into belonging to them alone, is a bit like listening to an argument over wether CN or CP lines  lead to Vancouver; different passes to the same port friends, thats all it is.

 

[aesop081]

It's a good thing i'm not a religious person or i would be going to hell for picking on the padre   ;D

 

[Trinity]

Why are their so many faiths? A Sikh friend of mine uses the parable of the diamond, each faith is a facet of the diamond, all shine with the light of the central truth, but none can encompass its entirety. Each facet is different, each light unique, but shine from the same source, and carry the same truth.

Well put.  I like that. 

It's a good thing i'm not a religious person or i would be going to hell for picking on the padre  ;D

Aesop... just cause you don't believe doesn't mean its not going to happen.  ;D

 

[aesop081]

Aesop... just cause you don't believe doesn't mean its not going to happen.    ;D

yeah yeah..." and the seventh angel pored out his bowl into the air and a voice cried out from the heavens saying "it is done" and all that......

 

[Infanteer]

Mainerjohnthomas - you are a wise man, my friend.

 

[S McKee]

That list that Trinity provides is fascinating - it is a really nice good for "Comparative Religiosity" (is that a word?).

Anywise, I found this odd - the CF actively recognizes Rastafarianism (I am assuming that there is a code for it on the ID disks).   Under the description of the religion, it states:

So, doesn't this conflict with the CF policy Zero-Tolerance policy regarding Racism that every applicant signs during the recruiting process?

I guess it would be no different than the Christian position on Homosexuality.

 

[Infanteer]

Well, since it seems that many Christians (including members here) are tolerant of it, that isn't quite the truth.  I think the anti-gay Christian movement is, like Mainerjohnthomas stated, merely a matter of people using the "Book of Quotes" as opposed to a fundamental tenet of the faith.

I just locked one thread on that topic - don't do that to this one as well.

 

[S McKee]

Well, since it seems that many Christians (including members here) are tolerant of it, that isn't quite the truth.   I think the anti-gay Christian movement is, like Mainerjohnthomas stated, merely a matter of people using the "Book of Quotes" as opposed to a fundamental tenet of the faith.

I just locked one thread on that topic - don't do that to this one as well.

Well I have to disagree with you Infanteer. I will decline from  expressing my personal view on homosexuality. However, those who practice Orthodox Christianity (true Christianity that is ye,s I know I'll hear about it) (which are those who adhere to the thelogical foundations of church as agreed upon by the seven ecumenical counsels, universally excepted by the first millennium church.) certainly viewed homosexuality as a sin, but then again they viewed drunkenness, anger, strife , envy, and sexual immorality of any kind, as sin as well . Infact, Jesus said if a man were to look at a woman with lust in his eyes he committed adultery with her in his heart! The scriptures are quite explicate when it come to what behaviour God considers as sinful; uniting oneself with a prostitute, lovers of money (TV Evangelists anyone), those without love, the unholy, those without self-controll, slander etc. The problem with the gay "issue" in my opinion is that their are two groups trying to exploit the bible. The first group: modernests, who believe scripture is subjective to their own views. Scripture has to be interpreted through Orthodox theology. The Orthodox wrote the New Testament and decided on the books that were to be included. Scripture has to be viewed through the eyes of the early Church fathers the theologians who with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined the early canons of the Church. One cannot arbitrarily change what the scriptures prohibits because it doesn't fit with the latest cause celeb. Secondly, there are those, homophobes who would latch on to anything which would justify their hated towards gays these are not Christians. I detest those who would propagate hate in the name of religion.  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[combat_medic]

The majority of the passage in the Bible declaring homosexuality as a sin are part of the old law that Christ struck down. The same chapter in Leviticus that says homosexuality is an abomination says the same thing about sleeping with a woman on her period, wearing clothing made of different fibres, marrying a non-virgin, and planting different crops in the same field... and yet these passages are blatantly ignored.

Furthermore, the Bible is rife with contradictions, so no denomination can claim to be following it to the letter, or they'd be running around in circles. (here's a good start on biblical inconsistencies: http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/dminconsistencies.htm ). Assuming you believe that the Bible is dibinely inspired, the billions of hands the texts have gone through, and the hundreds of different translations from a handful of languages into virtually every language in existance, obviously there has been errors along the way. Even if you believe that God himself was speaking to the writers of the biblical texts, you have to account for human error. No one denomination could possibly have it right, as it's all subject to interpretation.

Futhermore, each person is different. Kind of like a Rorschach Inkblot Tests - different people will see different things in the exact same image, just as people's experiences, personality, education, and upringing will influence their reading of the exact same book. The same book tells you "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek". You have to decide for yourself which one to follow.

 

[dutchie]

Just to add what Jumper said:

1-All sins are equal. Some believe in 'Mortal Sin' (essentially a '2-tiered' sin structure), but most denominations believe that all sin is equal. That is, the social acceptability of the act (say, homosexual sex, adultery, thievery, envy, murder, etc) is irrelevant, as God is not concerned with social acceptability. One sin for which forgiveness from God has not been granted will deny you from entering heaven, no matter what it is. Also inherent in Christianity is the notion that we are all sinners. So, in effect, we are all equally doomed unless we are saved. So anyone who claims to be 'cleaner' than anyone else is a hypocrite. While on one hand one cannot absolve a gay person from sin (unless they are abstinant), they also cannot assign greater sin to them than themselves.

2-Some might ask: Well, you cannot tell someone they are going to hell because they are gay, when everyone sins everyday. So what difference does it make if they are gay if they will go to hell because of these other sins which most everyone commits? The key is sincere repentance. Nobody can live sinless - it is not possible. But if you repent and ask for forgiveness, and you are sincere, you will be forgiven (according to most Christians). Most people who struggle with a particular sin (say adultery, envy, thievery, drunkenness) will usually ask for guidance and strength to help them overcome their weaknesses. So it is not necessary (and not possible) to live sinless lives.

Note: sex outside of marriage is a sin, regardless of whether it is hetero or homosexual. As well, the Bible is very clear on what constitutes marriage, and it does NOT include homosexual marriage. So, by proxy, homosexual sex is a sin, but homosexuality is not (as long as you are abstinant).

 

[Trinity]

Note: sex outside of marriage is a sin, regardless of whether it is hetero or homosexual. As well, the Bible is very clear on what constitutes marriage, and it does NOT include homosexual marriage. So, by proxy, homosexual sex is a sin, but homosexuality is not (as long as you are abstinant).

I'm not challenging your argument... i'm just curious where in the bible it says that.  Would like to
see it for my own personal development.  It is a very bold statement to make and I haven't seen
that passage for myself. 

 

[dutchie]

I'm not challenging your argument... i'm just curious where in the bible it says that.   Would like to
see it for my own personal development.   It is a very bold statement to make and I haven't seen
that passage for myself.  

I'll try and find it, but I am not near a Bible, so I am stuck with the net. I suspect it may be in one of Paul's letters, or maybe in John/Luke/Mathew/Mark. Doing a search in one of those on-line bible sites for 'homosexual' does nothing, as it is a modern word, and obviously not in the Bible.

I'll look, but if someone out there has it, please post.

As an aside, you say you are not disputing my argument, so do you prefer not to say what your professional opinion is? If not, please tell me.....from an 'expert', is my interpretation sound? Or am I missing something?

 

[neuromancer]

The majority of the passage in the Bible declaring homosexuality as a sin are part of the old law that Christ struck down. The same chapter in Leviticus that says homosexuality is an abomination says the same thing about sleeping with a woman on her period, wearing clothing made of different fibres, marrying a non-virgin, and planting different crops in the same field... and yet these passages are blatantly ignored.

Furthermore, the Bible is rife with contradictions, so no denomination can claim to be following it to the letter, or they'd be running around in circles. (here's a good start on biblical inconsistencies: http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/dminconsistencies.htm ). Assuming you believe that the Bible is dibinely inspired, the billions of hands the texts have gone through, and the hundreds of different translations from a handful of languages into virtually every language in existance, obviously there has been errors along the way. Even if you believe that God himself was speaking to the writers of the biblical texts, you have to account for human error. No one denomination could possibly have it right, as it's all subject to interpretation.

Futhermore, each person is different. Kind of like a Rorschach Inkblot Tests - different people will see different things in the exact same image, just as people's experiences, personality, education, and upringing will influence their reading of the exact same book. The same book tells you "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek". You have to decide for yourself which one to follow.

Sorry, Im going to call BS on that one. First of all I would like to say that most
inconsistancys are infact missunderstanding of context or other various side-line
information. I have found VERY VERY FEW inconsistancys or contradictions that
last under a little bit of thought or research.

*get out his book of quotes*

"Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship
idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who
steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander
others or are thieves - none of these will possess God's Kingdom."
1 Corinthians 6:9 --Good News Bible.

Now, before anyone jumps on my back, lets just try to temper that scripture
with another one, ok?

"'Teacher' he asked, 'which is the greatest commandment in the Law?' Jesus
answered '"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and
with all your mind.' This is the greatest and the most important commandment.
The second most important commandment is like it: 'Love your neightbour as
you love yourself.' The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets
depends on these two commandments."
Matthew 22:36-40 --Good News Bible.

So, if you dont love your gay neighbours as you love yourself, then you might
as well be gay yourself, cause you aint getting in the kingdom anyway.. its the
second greatest commandment in the entire "book of quotes".

As a so-called "orthodox" christian you may feel that gay people are going to h3ll
or whatever, but if you dont love them then you are condeming yourself to that
very same h3ll.

Also, if you dont view people who cheet on their taxes and steal from "Ceasar"
or who might cheat on their wives, or even have pre-marital sex as you would
also view someone who is gay, then you are a hypocrite. You're also going to h3ll
in those cases, cause thats where the hypocrites and liars go.

You might try to say "but Jesus got mad at people and condemed them when
he was on earth". True, but acording to the bible he had authority to do those
things given to him by god, you dont.

So better button those lips and play nice. Work on being a better christian youself
and lay off on the condemnations and wrath, thats not your job anyway.

(this post is addressed to the so-called "orthodox" christians.. the rest of
you can ignore me)  ;D