Steel...you say you want to create a new uniform to replace the DEU. Specifically, if I understand you correctly, you wish to move away from the jacket and tie and move towards a "traditional" uniform more akin to ceremonials or patrols.
These are my points
a) many, many officers and NCMs need a working dress akin to civilian business dress - recruiters, researchers, PAFFOs, staff officers, project managers, administrators, specialists, even officers in combat arms units who deal with the public
b) "traditional" uniforms in Canada don't work because we have been cash poor - no two regiments have ever dressed alike when it came to "traditions". The closest we have to a tradition is the CF Green uniform. God help us if we go back to that!
c) I don't understand the connection ROJ is making, if I understand correctly, between "looking military" and at the same time insisting on a uniform that divests itself entirely of any type of miliitary symbols. The hypothetical full dress uniform is entirely British in appearance, likely never worn by the majority of regiments in their lifetime (not to mention completely incorrect for units of the supporting arms), and gives no indication of military qualifications. In fact, the full dress uniform is the same one worn by teenage kids in the 78th Fraser Highlanders re-enactment units at the Old Fort in Montreal and in Calgary, as well as the university students who work at the Halifax Citadel in the summer.
Creating a uniform to "replace" the DEUs would be more expensive (a DEU jacket probably costs 20 dollars to make, a wool doublet of whatever colour and cut you choose would be many times that), would make the wearer stand out like a sore thumb in anything but a parade square setting, and would make little connection between the wearer and the Canadian Armed Forces to anyone not in the know (how many times have you worn your kilt downtown and been asked what instrument you play?
and a similar lack of connection between the wearer and the society he is supposed to represent.
I'm sorry if anyone is reading a hostile tone into my remarks; not at all. There just appears to be a disconnect in thinking; anyone suggesting DEUs are not necessary really hasn't thought through how many people wear them, and for what purposes. For an infantryman in a reserve unit, it probably matters little whether he wears a doublet or DEU - he goes to Rememberance Day and the one or two battle commemoration parades each year while wearing it, maybe a couple hours downtown at the Legion or the bar afterwards, and he's done for the year.
I am not in favour of abandoning a nice ceremonial uniform; I would suggest that they are unnecessary, expensive, and really don't represent our history as well as some people would suggest since most units have never worn them. I do like the sight of our pipe band in greens and reds; can't stand having to, as we say, "put all that shit on again", and nothing feels better after a pipe band performance than dumping all that stuff on the floor and letting one's skin breathe again.
A jacket and tie are mandatory; that's just the way it is, and whether you are talking about red doublets, camouflage windbreakers, or lightweight patrol jackets, the wearer will still be conspicious and out of place in certain settings in which he needs to appear. Even Garrison Dress was unsuitable for office work and it was designed as a working dress! The belt rode up too high, the jacket has tight and constrictive, and the boots were uncomfortable and required way too much maintenance to wear on a day to day basis. Most clerks I knew went and got chits so they didn't have to wear them. What could be simpler than DEU trousers and a shirt/sweater combination, with the option of a tie and jacket for smartness? Very nicely mimics Business Casual and Business dress. Even if, Steel Badger, you are suggesting a patrol jacket in material like the DEU, with stand up collar and waistbelt - I have to ask, what is the point? You can throw out the historical precedent for that, ditto comfort. Taking the garrison belt on and off every time you wanted to work, go to the bathroom, enter the mess, was a colossal pain.
I say again, dressing like we are superior to others is not the way to go. We are a unique institution that is supposed to reflect the best of society; that means fitting in. There is so much talk of "footprint in the community" these days, even on this very board. Do we mean it, or don't we?
I don't see that the DEU uniform in any way infringes on our ability to be military; in fact, it is one of the few distinctively Canadian uniforms we've had. If we could just get past the self-conscious in us that makes us put the name of the country on the sleeves, we'd be set. The US Marines look so sharp, to use Infanteer's example, because they have one uniform for everyone. When they wore their service dress, it used to be that people in the northern US would ask "are you in the Canadian Army?" No one recognized their dress greens. We can't do that the way the Marines or the Mounties have been associated with a single dress uniform. Way too many different regimental and corps traditions. Creating one out of whole cloth will not be a success. The closest thing we've done is the DEU. Like it or not, THAT is the tradition, and if you trace it back, it has been in evolution since 1902, and always been with us, from the Service Dress to T-Dubs.
And yes, ROJ, it is not "battle dress" and was not worn during war time. Neither would the DEU if we ever mobilized again - but neither would Steel Badgers new No. 1 uniform; it would be the first thing on the chopping block and we would simply concentrate on CADPAT and environmental kit (or so I would hope - do you want guns, or butter?)
Anyway, perhaps I'm not getting your point. You want a Canadian uniform (CF Green jacket and tie has been traditional for 25 years and counting now), something comfortable (I'll take a loose fitting lounge coat with collared shirt and tie over two neck hooks and turnback cuffs anyday), something military (don't get more military than a wolf or snarling bear on the shoulder patch) and something with multiple applications (add a bow tie and it is mess dress/evening wear, replace the jacket with a sweater and it is office clothing).
Don't get much better than the DEU. Save parade clothes for parades and field clothes for the field.
