Election 2015

[Altair]

Stolen from WIKI

Harper attended Northlea Public School and, later, John G. Althouse Middle School and Richview Collegiate Institute, both in Central Etobicoke. He graduated in 1978, and was a member of Richview Collegiate's team on Reach for the Top, a television quiz show for Canadian high school students.[6] Harper enrolled at the University of Toronto but dropped out after two months.[7] He then moved to Edmonton, Alberta, where he found work in the mail room at Imperial Oil.[7] Later, he advanced to work on the company's computer systems. He took up post-secondary studies again at the University of Calgary, where he completed a bachelor's degree in economics in 1985. He later returned there to earn a master's degree in economics, completed in 1991.[8] Harper has kept strong links to the University of Calgary, where he often lectured. Harper is the first prime minister since Joe Clark without a law degree.

Without a impressive career before politics, he is one of Canada's longest serving prime ministers.

If one were to run a just not ready campaign back in 2006 Harper would have been the subject of it. Which goes to show that incredibly impressive credentials and experience don't automatically translate into being a capable prime minister. Looking at Dion and Ignatief, both of whom had impressive credentials, it may actually be a detriment! ;D

 

[Altair]

Mulcair, multi-degreed lawyer from McGill's elite and a long family lineage to early Quebec premiership (and his psychologist wife) is "more" middle class than Harper (an accountant's son and economist, with a college-diplomed rancher's daughter for a wife)?  Remind me again, how are you judging "middle-class?"

I have done a bit of research into tom mulcairs upbringing, he and his family were not wealthy.

He had a lot of siblings. He had to borrow money from family to go into law school. He worked in the trades as a roofer, which no wealthy person does voluntarily. I don't know how that isn't middle class. I am assuming of course that we are talking about upbringing, not current financial status.

 

[Jed]

Stolen from WIKI

Without a impressive career before politics, he is one of Canada's longest serving prime ministers.

If one were to run a just not ready campaign back in 2006 Harper would have been the subject of it. Which goes to show that incredibly impressive credentials and experience don't automatically translate into being a capable prime minister. Looking at Dion and Ignatief, both of whom had impressive credentials, it may actually be a detriment! ;D

That's a pretty rough segue from which politician understands, and is from the middle class.  I think that Tom Mulcair having dual citizenship with France is not very indicative of middle class, as well.

It may be a bias of mine but Harper's educational / vocational bio / CV appears to show a much stronger work ethic than Justin's.

 

[Good2Golf]

I have done a bit of research into tom mulcairs upbringing, he and his family were not wealthy.

He had a lot of siblings. He had to borrow money from family to go into law school. He worked in the trades as a roofer, which no wealthy person does voluntarily. I don't know how that isn't middle class. I am assuming of course that we are talking about upbringing, not current financial status.

And dropping out of university and working in a mail room makes someone upper class?  ???

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Seems odd to have an issue with something someone had no control over.

I don't think baby justin trudeau had a choice of what tax bracket he was born in.

Nope, but he does have a choice in how he portrays himself. He was born into incredible wealth and fame, and there's nothing wrong with that. I have a problem with how he tries to portray himself as the hero of the middle class, something he has only a passing understanding of. It'd be like if a NFL team hired a highly educated psychology grad who has never played football, but watched it, to  be a football coach... perfectly intelligent person but no understanding of the game.

If Mr. Trudeau wasn't portraying his understanding of my problems with no real way of understanding them than I would be more apt to listen- once again, I truly hope that that PM is one of the top 5% smartest people in the country... I dont believe he is anywhere near that number and condescending to boot

 

[Altair]

And dropping out of university and working in a mail room makes someone upper class?  ???

No. And nowhere did I say Harper was upper class.
I said, and I quote, Mulcair is even more middle class than Harper.

 

[George Wallace]

Stolen from WIKI

Harper attended Northlea Public School and, later, John G. Althouse Middle School and Richview Collegiate Institute, both in Central Etobicoke. He graduated in 1978, and was a member of Richview Collegiate's team on Reach for the Top, a television quiz show for Canadian high school students.[6] Harper enrolled at the University of Toronto but dropped out after two months.[7] He then moved to Edmonton, Alberta, where he found work in the mail room at Imperial Oil.[7] Later, he advanced to work on the company's computer systems. He took up post-secondary studies again at the University of Calgary, where he completed a bachelor's degree in economics in 1985. He later returned there to earn a master's degree in economics, completed in 1991.[8] Harper has kept strong links to the University of Calgary, where he often lectured. Harper is the first prime minister since Joe Clark without a law degree.

Without a impressive career before politics, he is one of Canada's longest serving prime ministers.

If one were to run a just not ready campaign back in 2006 Harper would have been the subject of it. Which goes to show that incredibly impressive credentials and experience don't automatically translate into being a capable prime minister. Looking at Dion and Ignatief, both of whom had impressive credentials, it may actually be a detriment! ;D

Are you insinuating that Trudeau has a Masters Degree in Economics or any other relevant subject?

 

[Altair]

Without a impressive career before politics, he is one of Canada's longest serving prime ministers.

If one were to run a just not ready campaign back in 2006 Harper would have been the subject of it. Which goes to show that incredibly impressive credentials and experience don't automatically translate into being a capable prime minister. Looking at Dion and Ignatief, both of whom had impressive credentials, it may actually be a detriment! ;D


Are you insinuating that Trudeau has a Masters Degree in Economics or any other relevant subject?

I am not. I am saying that neither had a impressive career before politics.

 

[GAP]

Are you insinuating that Trudeau has a Masters Degree in Economics or any other relevant subject?

But he teaches drama......

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

No. And nowhere did I say Harper was upper class.
I said, and I quote, Mulcair is even more middle class than Harper.

to go back to the point... If Mr. Mulclair is from a middle class family, than great, he certainly has a basis to speak intelligently on the middle class. If Mr. Harper is middle class, great, he can speak about the middle class in the same manner. Mr Trudeau's exposure to the middle class was from the outside looking in, at best. As mentioned, it doesn't much matter who was poor and who was rich. Being rich, or poor, or middle class, doesn't make someone a better candidate or their ideas any less credible. What I said was that the fact the Trudeau poses as the hero of the middle class, a class he could not REALLY understand, is condescending. He's rich and should be well spoken and educated based on that background. He should focus on what he is, not fantasize about what he isn't.

 

[Altair]

But he teaches drama......

True. Lets all vote for the one guy with a law degree who actually had a career before politics then.

 

[Altair]

to go back to the point... If Mr. Mulclair is from a middle class family, than great, he certainly has a basis to speak intelligently on the middle class. If Mr. Harper is middle class, great, he can speak about the middle class in the same manner. Mr Trudeau's exposure to the middle class was from the outside looking in, at best. As mentioned, it doesn't much matter who was poor and who was rich. Being rich, or poor, or middle class, doesn't make someone a better candidate or their ideas any less credible. What I said was that the fact the Trudeau poses as the hero of the middle class, a class he could not REALLY understand, is condescending. He's rich and should be well spoken and educated based on that background. He should focus on what he is, not fantasize about what he isn't.

I see it as no different than Harper going around saying that he understands the military and has saved it from Liberal misdeeds while having never served a day in his life. That's just my opinion though, take it or leave it.

 

[Jed]

I see it as no different than Harper going around saying that he understands the military and has saved it from Liberal misdeeds while having never served a day in his life. That's just my opinion though, take it or leave it.

We must be in your OODA loop. That's a cheap shot. A big difference from espousing support for the military, a rather small subset of society, to expressing in depth understanding of the 'middle class', a much larger subset of society.

Not that I appreciate pseudo military politicians from any party.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I see it as no different than Harper going around saying that he understands the military and has saved it from Liberal misdeeds while having never served a day in his life. That's just my opinion though, take it or leave it.

I wasn't aware that Harper went around saying that he "understood us" and our specific trades/jobs. He, through the MND, did implement policy and utilize the military. If Trudeau did the same for the middle class it would be fine...

 

[Privateer]

... pseudo military politicians ...

You just described at least one Naval Reserve divisional system I have encountered...

 

[Good2Golf]

No. And nowhere did I say Harper was upper class.
I said, and I quote, Mulcair is even more middle class than Harper.

Then we both agree that Mulcair is higher in the middle class than Harper.

 

[Altair]

Then we both agree that Mulcair is higher in the middle class than Harper.

I would give the edge to mulcair

Stephen Harpers father was an accountant. Tom Mulcairs father was in insurance. Don't know what Harpers mother did. Mulcairs mother was a teacher. Harper had two other siblings, mulcair had nine.

Pretty close, but with the large family I  would go with mulcair by a dollar.

Again, I'm basing this on upbringing.

This is all getting away from my point though. I said that mulcair was middle class and is wanting to get rid of income splitting, so people cannot say that the only reason Justin Trudeau is trying to get rid of income splitting is because he doesn't understand how it would effect the middle class.

 

[PuckChaser]

I wasn't sold on income splitting, until I saw its effect on my family's tax return last year. Even with Trudeau cutting the middle tax rate to 20.5%, I still come out $3500 poorer. That, coupled with his rollback of the proposed EI rates, means I'll keep even less of my own money every year for absolutely no gain. Muclair is going to remove income splitting and not even give me a tax cut, adding another $500 or so to my payable. He'll give me daycare, that I don't need until he jacks up my taxes further, forcing my wife to go to back to work to make ends meet as a middle class family.

 

[Good2Golf]

...This is all getting away from my point though. I said that mulcair was middle class and is wanting to get rid of income splitting, so people cannot say that the only reason Justin Trudeau is trying to get rid of income splitting is because he doesn't understand how it would effect the middle class.

No one here was saying that Trudeau's only reason to eliminate income splitting was due to his inability to understand the middle classes.  Many have pointed out that they feel Trudeau is unqualified to play the "I'm one of you, I understand the middle class" card. 

You were the one who actually brought specifics of income splitting into the "Trudeau-not-Middle-Class" discussion by linking eliminating income splitting with Tom Mulcair as well, then stating that he was middlier than Harper.

With a family of nine children and Mme. Mulcair staying at home to care for the family, M. Mulcair Sr., post-retirment income would have gone farther under an income-splitting regime.  I can only imagine that Tom Mulcair is basing his decision to eliminate income splitting for reasons other than his own childhood conditions.

 

[Altair]

While I'm happy income splitting works for you and your family, it doesn't work for mine and many others.

Single men and women get no benefit

Families with two people earning around the same amount get no benefit

Doesn't help me and my wife, since we both earn within a couple thousand of each other.

What would help me is and increase of the UCCB by making it means based. While I have yet to see the specifics on that, it would help me more under trudeau than it would under harper or mulcair, on top of a drop in my income taxes.

So vote according to your wallet by all means, but don't think that any party covers the needs of all Canadians, or one is vastly superior to anothers. At best its a wash.