Cremated Taliban as Psy-Op Tool?

[Infanteer]

I made no comment as to whether the platoon leader did anything wrong. Although if you see the Pentagon reaction to the story the young Lt seem's to not get the benefit of the doubt. I for one support the actions of the Lt, unless something should surface that would indicate otherwise. Second guessing the troops in the field is a professional hazard in this pc world.

+1. 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Second guessing the troops in the field is a professional hazard in this pc world.

I'm getting tired of seeing "PC" used as if it's a dirty word.  PC has led to some unfortunate situations, which have their own handy labels - I'm thinking of reverse discrimination primarily.  But on the whole, if the quote civilized world unquote has become more tolerant and understanding, put me in the camp that thinks that's a good thing.

Second guessing troops in the field may or may not represent real hazards, but of course troops in the field also have a responsibility to carry out the intent - not just the commands - of their leadership. 

Using a f'rinstance here, maybe a big one, but if you're busily and publicly desecrating enemy dead while someone else from your company is being taken prisoner elsewhere...

 

[1feral1]

What's wrong with just burying them good and deep?  

Decaying bodies in 35C, plus the sun, burying them most likely in super hard ground, rock maybe, so time is a factor, while only having an Etool, then handling corpses without proper IPE, plus the digging etc,and exposure of the troops possibly to EN fire (direct or worse indirect) while digging. I would NOT ask my men to do that, when there is a 20 litre jerry of mogas or diesel handy.

Common sense, heath, safety, stamina, and the morale of my men comes first, before anything else.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[tomahawk6]

I'm getting tired of seeing "PC" used as if it's a dirty word.   PC has led to some unfortunate situations, which have their own handy labels - I'm thinking of reverse discrimination primarily.   But on the whole, if the quote civilized world unquote has become more tolerant and understanding, put me in the camp that thinks that's a good thing.

Second guessing troops in the field may or may not represent real hazards, but of course troops in the field also have a responsibility to carry out the intent - not just the commands - of their leadership.  

Using a f'rinstance here, maybe a big one, but if you're busily and publicly desecrating enemy dead while someone else from your company is being taken prisoner elsewhere...

Its pretty plain that if a US soldier falls into the hands of the enemy a quick end is not in the cards. These are fanatics who dont care a wit about the Geneva Convention or anything else. Just look back on the atrocities meted out by the Taliban to their enemies. If they will skin alive a child than it would be real pleasure to inflict alot of pain on any captured US or allied soldier. They have descrated the bodies of fallen US military personnel in the past and I doubt anything will change. Perhaps Michael if you were one of their guests that sometime before the end you would have wished that you had saved yourself alot of pain and just killed yourself to avoid capture.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Does this not put aside the fact that we're IN THEIR COUNTRY?

Nope. I'm not thinking narrowly as Canada-in-Afghanistan; I'm thinking of general cultural differences encountered across several nations around the world.  I've decided if there is to be any "submission", I'll select my own terms.

 

[geo]

Tomahawk...
The islamic "culture" is a strange thing to our western sensibilities.
The warrior in Jihad will set off a bomb next to a school of his & his neighbors children... and that's OK for him.

The interim Gov't, the US and all nations who contribute to the multinational force are saying that that is bad and should not be tolerated. We're taking the high ground telling the local population that they should look up to us... and our defenition of democracy....

So while our troops do good, some press "nit" and another psyop "wit" have screwed the poock for all of us.

 

[tomahawk6]

Here is an article which is the best description of what happened in Afghanistan.

http://www.jasoncoleman.com/BlogArchives/2005/10/martinkus_dupon.html

 

[geo]

Still not 100% sure about converting the act into a Psyop oportunity BUT I am not there on the ground and don't know about the difficulty of getting Talibans & AQ to come out of hiding.

It is a wonder that Martinkus had his credentials accepted by the US Forces...uhhh... doesn't anyone check - esp if he is known for his bias?

 

[Marauder]

Plt Comd's actions are being twisted into an Anti Taliban act...

Uhhh, I think the actions that led to those Talibunnies getting their asses capped could be considered "Anti-Taliban". Beyond that, when did being anti-Taliban become a negateive? Every last one of those fucks should be dug out of their holes, before being turned around, and having their holes filled back up with dead Talibunnies. The Taliban is the ENEMY!!!! HELLO, GOOD MORNING!

When the MSM gets video of a NATO mbr decapitiating an Afghani civ with a butter knife, hey, maybe we can debate the rightness/ wrongness of it. Until then, remember that 'mo'gas equals 'good'gas. Just remind the troops to stand back a bit. That second hand smoke will kill ya.

 

[devil39]

I would think that this could be construed as an LOAC violation, however the excuse of hygiene is a reasonable excuse.  Probably could have moved them and covered them up with rocks though.

The psyops angle and the taunting is just plain stupid.  What do they not understand about the winning on the moral plane? 

Yet another reason for the locals, their relatives, clan, tribe, etc, to hate the "West" and join the other side.  The best thing to do would have been to make a demonstration of interring the dead with respect in accordance with their culture.

My 2 cents.

 

[Kat Stevens]

...just like they do for our guys.

 

[Britney Spears]

I think  <a href=http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince19.htm>this</a> is what devil39 is trying to say.

 

[Franko]

I'll just chime in here for a quick pointer.  :

The bodies were facing west for a reason....in Afghanistan Mecca is in the west, southwest actually. I see Muslims praying in that direction all the time. So in that regard they were correct in doing so.

Cremation of the bodies is in accordance to the GC as stated above. Some of the Muslims I've talked to say that burning is cleasing the body as well when burial can't be readily done...point as they were on a mountain, IIRC.

The problem is the PsyOps guys did their job when a imbed was around...and everything got blown out of poportion.

Thank you media    :

Regards

 

[geo]

Hmmm.... things getting repetitive around here....
maybe about time for Admin to lock up this one.

Been a slice!

 

[devil39]

I'll just chime in here for a quick pointer.  :

The bodies were facing west for a reason....in Afghanistan Mecca is in the west, southwest actually. I see Muslims praying in that direction all the time. So in that regard they were correct in doing so.

Cremation of the bodies is in accordance to the GC as stated above. Some of the Muslims I've talked to say that burning is cleasing the body as well when burial can't be readily done...point as they were on a mountain, IIRC.

The problem is the PsyOps guys did their job when a imbed was around...and everything got blown out of poportion.

Thank you media    :


Regards

And I would say it was a stupid Psyops job....

I hope the average civilian reading this site doesn't think that the CF would condone taunting locals while burning bodies as an acceptable Psyops practice.  Despite the approval of the moderator.  I certainly wouldn't allow my troops to engage in such practice.  Counterproductive.

 

[Acorn]

I've thought a little about this, and I'm not ready to condemn the Psyops guys. Yes, it was a stupid psyop from our western perspective. Calling Taliban fighters "girly-men" isn't a bad idea though. They regard "us" as cowardly 'cause we go out in armoured vehicles, all tooled-up with body-armour and stuff. Courage in battle is very important to that culture, and to suggest that they are weak (targetted at the TB specifically) and cowardly (or "womanly" which is much the same in their minds) could draw them out for a fight they'll lose.

I would like to think the Psyops folks acted as part of a directed IO plan, based on good Int and cultural awareness. That they didn't account for a film crew and the inevitable Monday Morning QBs with their own biases, lattes and luxury of analysis time is a failure, but a small one.

Acorn

 

[geo]

Acorn,
won't dissagree with you but, while they may have had cultural awareness with respect to which buttons to push to get the Taliban / AQ 's goat... did they take into account the local native population?

did they care?

 

[1feral1]

At the end of the day, DON'T let the media go along with Psy-Ops boys. How can you fight a war (yes fight - KILL the EN etc) with the limp wristed left (SBS Channel 21) in tow.

I hope they have learned a lesson.

Gotta go, packing for AASAM, got in late last night (13 hrs by truck) after a final trip down there, and now we leave Mon am til 01 Dec.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Acorn]

Acorn,
won't dissagree with you but, while they may have had cultural awareness with respect to which buttons to push to get the Taliban / AQ 's goat... did they take into account the local native population?

did they care?

The TB are the SAME culture as the "local native population."

 

[geo]

Aye.... there's the rub!