Marine Corps probe video showing troops "urinating on dead Taliban"

[Kalatzi]

Gee Whiz, this thread seems to be all over the place.

Feel Free to take the following with a grain of salt, but I  can see the rationale.

Afghan soldier 'killed French troops over US abuse video'

link here - http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jGCkN0tD3sFPkeYOsgc8b3RNMiGw?docId=CNG.f4b3121d53c9061ef3bd59387255abe5.7a1

Off on a tangent - If the West snatches victory(s) out of our involvement, they are lilkely to be Pyrrhic

"A Pyrrhic victory (/ˈpɪrɪk/) is a victory with such a devastating cost to the victor that it carries the implication that another such victory will ultimately cause defeat."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

I would love to be wrong about this

 

[The Bread Guy]

Locking up to clean up a bit and allow a bit of cooling off.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest ....

Two staff noncommissioned officers, including a platoon sergeant, were among the Marines filmed last year in Afghanistan appearing to urinate on Taliban corpses, a Defense Department official confirmed to Marine Corps Times on Wednesday.

Both men are staff sergeants with a scout sniper platoon assigned to 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines, an infantry unit based at Camp Lejeune, N.C., the source said on condition of anonymity as investigations into the incident are ongoing. One was the platoon’s senior enlisted Marine.

The other two men seen in the video are lower ranking enlisted personnel, the source said. All four are still on active duty.

Investigators have identified the individual who operated the video camera, but that Marine has since left active duty, the source said. No names have been released, and no one has been charged with a crime ....

Marine Corps Times, 1 Feb 12

 

[Kalatzi]

Unit Commander Among Marines Urinating on Corpses

Just to clarify -there seems seems to be some confusiion about the level of unit commander -  A Plt commander is an officer appointment

Link here http://www.military.com/news/article/unit-commander-among-marines-urinating-on-corpses.html?comp=700001075741&rank=10

Going off on a tangent I found this quote interesting

"Experts said that while commanders can't be held responsible for everything their troops do"

I thoughtr that was utter bull-sh*t based but when I was born dinosaurs still ruled.

So a more current link http://www.spectacle.org/1098/leader.html

Two cheers - Excrement!!!

so a more current link

 

[Jarnhamar]

Do sniper platoons use NCOs as platoon commanders?  US, Canadian?

For some reason I have it in my head (at least Canadian wise) officers do not take the sniper course.  I'm wondering if the USMC use LTs or above for sniper platoon commander positions or if they use an SNCO?

 

[dangerboy]

Do sniper platoons use NCOs as platoon commanders?  US, Canadian?

For some reason I have it in my head (at least Canadian wise) officers do not take the sniper course.  I'm wondering if the USMC use LTs or above for sniper platoon commander positions or if they use an SNCO?

For Canada, the snipers are commanded by the Unit Master Sniper, Usually a WO.  Here is a textbook answer:

For ease of administration and training, the sniper platoon forms part of an infantry unit’s
Combat Support Company. The commanding officer or operations officer of a unit will allot
tasks directly to the sniper platoon.

From B-GL-392-005/FP-001

 

[cupper]

Do sniper platoons use NCOs as platoon commanders?  US, Canadian?

For some reason I have it in my head (at least Canadian wise) officers do not take the sniper course.  I'm wondering if the USMC use LTs or above for sniper platoon commander positions or if they use an SNCO?

Correct me if I'm wrong ('cause I ain't no expert) but I was under the impression that US units (USMC excepted) have their snipers as a sub-unit (pl ?) of a recon unit, with an NCO in charge of the sniper sub-unit, reporting directly to the OC of the recon unit.

From what I understood from the recent book I read on the Falujah  (sp?) seige, USMC infantry companies have an intrinsic sniper section as part of their support platoon.

 

[medicineman]

Here's what Action Figure Therapy has to say about the peeing on dead Taliban subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyTVkD0w--E&feature=relmfu

MM

 

[jollyjacktar]

I'm confused.  So, does what he's saying mean then that it's OK to draw huge dicks  or arrows on Taliban foreheads while they're still alive.  Before you call in the C-130 gunships? 

 

[medicineman]

I'm confused.  So, does what he's saying mean then that it's OK to draw huge dicks  or arrows on Taliban foreheads while they're still alive.  Before you call in the C-130 gunships? 

I get the impression he's leaving that unsaid...we're not supposed to abuse EPW's in anyway, however if they're running away and happen to run through a slew of markers hanging in trees, leaving said naughty bits drawn on their faces and then they accidentally get hit by a gunship strike, I think we're OK.

MM

 

[jollyjacktar]

I get the impression he's leaving that unsaid...we're not supposed to abuse EPW's in anyway, however if they're running away and happen to run through a slew of markers hanging in trees, leaving said naughty bits drawn on their faces and then they accidentally get hit by a gunship strike, I think we're OK.

MM

I was thinking we might have to sneak up on them ala Gurka like, and draw dicks on their foreheads while their sleeping.  Then call in the air strikes.  I know I know, once we touch them and say "tag, you're it" and they become EPW's we can't draw on them.  But if we could sneak up on them, then we could put some "fun" into fundamentalist.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Similar incident - injudicious actions + injudicious sharing of imagery (photos in question attached)

Marine Corps scout snipers used the logo of the notorious Nazi SS organization while in Afghanistan in 2010, the service acknowledged Thursday.

The logo appeared on a flag in a photograph of the platoon taken in September 2010 in Sangin district, a hotly contested area in Helmand province. The Marines were with Charlie Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, out of Camp Pendleton, Calif., and are shown sitting in combat gear with the U.S. flag and a blue flag with the stylized “SS” logo hanging behind them.

The logo also appears on a 7.62mm M40 sniper rifle carried by a Marine in another photograph distributed Thursday by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. Information embedded electronically with the image shows that it was released by the Marine Corps in 2004 and taken at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center at Twentynine Palms, Calif. The two Marines in it were with the scout sniper platoon with 1st Battalion, 7th Marines ....

Marine Corps Times, 9 Feb 12

Response from the USMC Commandant James Amos

On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines.

The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership.

In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that:

    My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities.
    The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations.
    The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols.

On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.

 

[dogger1936]

Distasteful. However I would think a lawyer would get them off as it's only "two stylized runes on a blue flag".

Having said that I have seen some "distasteful unauthorized symbols" there myself. One was while walking around KAF as we were in for a ramp ceremony. One of those round ISAF replacement patches with a crusader eating a leg of pork. With IIRC Pork eating crusaders written below it.

....Maybe we should send them our media awareness powerpoint?

 

[armyvern]

Wow.

The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany.

I find this extremely hard to believe and I'm not buying it. Guess they just pulled "that unknown symbol" out of their asses then??

Just when I thought Canadian History classes in our school system were lacking these days. Oy yoy yoy.

 

[dogger1936]

Wow.

I find this extremely hard to believe and I'm not buying it. Guess they just pulled "that unknown symbol" out of their asses then??

Just when I thought Canadian History classes in our school system were lacking these days. Oy yoy yoy.

Maybe it was a total accident...
Like the producers of The Krusty Komedy Klassic.... ;D
http://youtu.be/GeaVGLcQ-fE

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Pissing on the bodies I can understand and forgiveable, because these people just tried to kill you. But using nazi's symbols and proudly getting your photo taken with it is plain dumb. Their NCO's and Officers should face significant punishments for being so stupid. Maybe on their leave or on the way home, make them all go to Belsan and spend some time fixing up the place. Not to mention maybe tending graves of US soldiers killed in Europe.

 

[dogger1936]

Pissing on the bodies I can understand and forgiveable, because these people just tried to kill you. But using nazi's symbols and proudly getting your photo taken with it is plain dumb. Their NCO's and Officers should face significant punishments for being so stupid. Maybe on their leave or on the way home, make them all go to Belsan and spend some time fixing up the place. Not to mention maybe tending graves of US soldiers killed in Europe.

If anyone ever visits Belsan and is not touched/creeped out at humanity's actions...

By far one of the most creepy places I've ever visited. I was honoured to spend the day there in better times than years ago.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Pissing on the bodies I can understand and forgiveable, because these people just tried to kill you. But using nazi's symbols and proudly getting your photo taken with it is plain dumb. Their NCO's and Officers should face significant punishments for being so stupid. Maybe on their leave or on the way home, make them all go to Belsan and spend some time fixing up the place. Not to mention maybe tending graves of US soldiers killed in Europe.

Many years ago I recall being quietly horrified as a US Marine Captain explained to me why the 'Corps' was kind of like, but better than, the SS. I poop you not.... Luckily he was not the norm.

Then again, these were the same guys that fully believed me when I told them that no one in Britain - except the Queen - was allowed to own a Corgi. Why? Because it was the Royal Dog, of course.  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... Marine officials said Monday that two noncommissioned officers pleaded guilty to violating a lawful general order, II Marine Expeditionary Force General Order 1A, by wrongfully posing for an unofficial photograph with human casualties. They also admitted urinating on the body of a deceased Taliban fighter, which was considered conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline.

A staff noncommissioned officer pleaded guilty to violating a lawful general order, Secretary of the Navy Instruction 3300.1C, by failing to report the mistreatment of human casualties by other Marines. He also pleaded guilty to making a false official statement to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service officer about his knowledge of the video, Marine officials said.

The decision by Mills to administer NJP, rather than pursue criminal charges, means the service will not identify the Marines involved. Officials also declined to say exactly what punishment each of the three Marines faced.

“The specific punishments will not be disclosed, as nonjudicial punishment is an administrative proceeding,” the Corps said in a statement. “Punishment may include reduction in rank, restriction to a military base, extra duties, forfeiture of pay, a reprimand or a combination of these measures. Regardless of the specific punishments, nonjudicial punishment becomes a permanent part of the Marine’s record with the potential to affect reenlistment and promotion.” ....

Marine Corps Times, 27 Aug 12

Also, according to Stars & Stripes quoting the Wall Street Journal, "In addition to disciplinary action against the Marines, the Marine Corps plans to discipline officers in charge of the unit, the Wall Street Journal reported."

 

[jollyjacktar]

Here's an update on this fiasco.

2 U.S. marines to be court-martialled in urinating video case
Two non-commissioned officers allegedly urinated on bodies of Taliban fighters
The Associated Press
Posted: Sep 24, 2012 5:27 PM ET
Last Updated: Sep 24, 2012 4:48 PM ET
Navy investigators have been called in after an unverified video appeared to show a group of Marines urinating on corpses. This blurred image is part of an unverified video posted online. Navy investigators have been called in after an unverified video appeared to show a group of Marines urinating on corpses. This blurred image is part of an unverified video posted online.


The U.S. Marine Corps says it will court-martial two non-commissioned officers for allegedly urinating on the bodies of Taliban fighters last year in Afghanistan and posing for unofficial photos with casualties.

The charges are against Staff Sgt. Joseph W. Chamblin and Staff Sgt. Edward W. Deptola.

The two also were charged with other misconduct on the same day as the urination incident. That includes dereliction of duty by failing to properly supervise junior Marines and failing to stop and report misconduct of junior Marines.

Three other Marines were given administrative punishments last month for their role in the urination incident.

The disclosure in January of a video showing four Marines in full combat gear urinating on the bodies of three dead men led to a criminal investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service as well as a Marine investigation of the unit involved, the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines, which fought in the southern Afghan province of Helmand for seven months before returning to its home base at Camp Lejeune, N.C., last September.
More marines may face discipline later

In the video, one of the Marines looked down at the bodies and quipped, "Have a good day, buddy."

In a statement Monday, the Marine Corps said disciplinary actions against additional Marines will be announced later.

It also said there are "other pending cases related to this incident," but said no specifics would be made public now.

The urination video was one in a string of embarrassing episodes for U.S. forces in Afghanistan in recent months. American troops have been caught up in controversies over burning Muslim holy books, posing for photos with insurgents' bloodied remains and an alleged massacre of 16 Afghan villagers by a soldier now in U.S. confinement.

The Marine Corps said the urination took place during a counterinsurgency operation in the Musa Qala district of Helmand province on July 27, 2011.
Officers face allegtions of other misconduct

The decision to court martial Chamblin and Deptola was made by Lt. Gen. Richard P. Mills, the commanding general of Marine Corps Combat Development Command.

When the video came to light on YouTube, U.S. military officials sternly condemned the misconduct. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said he feared that it could set back efforts to begin reconciliation talks with the Taliban.

Chamblin and Deptola also were charged with other misconduct alleged to have happened on the same day as the urination incident. That includes dereliction of duty by failing to properly supervise junior Marines, failing to report their misconduct and failing to require them to wear their personal protective equipment.

When it announced in August that three enlisted Marines had been given administrative punishment but would not be court martialed in the urination case, the Marine Corps said one had pleaded guilty to urinating on the Taliban soldiers and posing for a photograph.

It said another Marine pleaded guilty to wrongfully videotaping the incident and also posing for a photograph, and a third pleaded guilty to failing to report the mistreatment of human casualties and lying about it. The names of those three Marines were not released.
© The Associated Press, 2012
The Canadian Press