CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Prairie canuck]

Weren't they always going to that? And like with every other asset that Canada possesses, that which is surplus to domestic requirement is available to help out friends and strangers.

Charity begins at home.

MQ-9B sea guardian variant

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I was present for a brief on RPAs at one of our Morning Prayers late 2022 that was given by one of the Proj Os on RPAS.

All I will say is I am not worried about RPAs taking much of the LRP workload on. There just won’t be the required LOT available even when the current intended FOC is achieved.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I think when it comes to RPAS vs CMMA, the vital question is of tactical support to operations: for RPAS, will ACSOs still be responsible to produce coffee for the rest of the crew?

Wait. Are we talking flight feeding coffee …or French press real coffee ?

This is important.

 

[suffolkowner]

…almost…


@suffolkowner bet 15, which is the closest. Perhaps a two stage prize. SO’s got the first round…now for the runner up prize…

I await my prize.
If we get any Global Express ISR variants I will claim complete victory

 

[DBNSG]

1x Arctic Over The Horizon Radar
3x Radarsat Satellites
12x SkyGuardian RPAS
14x P8 CMMA
88x F35 JSF
15x CSC Frigates (AEGIS)
6x AOPS

Canadian National/Continental Defence Assets

Where are the two Airbus 330's the government bought? I know they are for VVIP and reporters at present but Kenny has stated he wants them converted to KC-30's. The when of course is open to politics, the weather, whims.

 

[KevinB]

I was present for a brief on RPAs at one of our Morning Prayers late 2022 that was given by one of the Proj Os on RPAS.

All I will say is I am not worried about RPAs taking much of the LRP workload on. There just won’t be the required LOT available even when the current intended FOC is achieved.

Frankly I don’t think Canada is going to get enough of anything at this point.

On page 18, I suggested 20 was the Minimum number that Canada could get to be looked at as credible with patrolling its own territory, and realistically 34 where needed to give the 16 AC needed to give reliable 24/7 Canadian coverage and 2 for external operations.

Some go to training.
Some will need maintenance, some will need refurbishment, and some will sadly be lost in service.

14 really isn’t a good number at all.

 

[dapaterson]

RPAS is also progressing, which adds sense / strike capability that does not exist today in the CAF.

 

[dimsum]

16 AC needed to give reliable 24/7 Canadian coverage and 2 for external operations.

AFAIK, we don't aim for 24/7 Canadian coverage (as in an aircraft over all coasts, all the time). Not enough aircraft or crews.

To be honest, I don't think the USN P-8 fleet aims for 24/7 coverage either.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

RPAS is also progressing, which adds sense / strike capability that does not exist today in the CAF.

Read my earlier comment. Prepare to be underwhelmed.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Frankly I don’t think Canada is going to get enough of anything at this point.

On page 18, I suggested 20 was the Minimum number that Canada could get to be looked at as credible with patrolling its own territory, and realistically 34 where needed to give the 16 AC needed to give reliable 24/7 Canadian coverage and 2 for external operations.

Some go to training.
Some will need maintenance, some will need refurbishment, and some will sadly be lost in service.

14 really isn’t a good number at all.

I can’t say I disagree that 14 isn’t enough. People get this idea in their head that a more capable aircraft = you don’t need as many of them. It’s not a fact even though people try to make it one.

 

[YZT580]

I can’t say I disagree that 14 isn’t enough. People get this idea in their head that a more capable aircraft = you don’t need as many of them. It’s not a fact even though people try to make it one.

you can only prosecute one attack at a time regardless of the capability of the aircraft. It is foolishness bordering on negligence to only have the capability to patrol as if your opponent is going to oblige your limitations by sending a single sub into a single quadrant.

 

[KevinB]

AFAIK, we don't aim for 24/7 Canadian coverage (as in an aircraft over all coasts, all the time). Not enough aircraft or crews.

To be honest, I don't think the USN P-8 fleet aims for 24/7 coverage either.

Maybe you should.

The P-8 fleet down here has the ability to do that and more -- it isn't done routinely, but the capability is there -- Canada will again not have that capability.

 

[Good2Golf]

RPAS is also progressing, which adds sense / strike capability that does not exist today in the CAF.

Only because the RCAF/CAF decided not to arm the CP-140 with Harpoon or SLAM ER....

#CentreOfOwnGoalExcellence

 

[dimsum]

Only because the RCAF/CAF decided not to arm the CP-140 with Harpoon or SLAM ER....

#CentreOfOwnGoalExcellence

Don't want to take the whole "firing missiles" prestige away from those of the fast-jet persuasion.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Maybe you should.

The P-8 fleet down here has the ability to do that and more -- it isn't done routinely, but the capability is there -- Canada will again not have that capability.

We used to be able to do hot-handovers to ourselves for substantial timelines…back in the Argus days. Dad (Argus Flt Engr) has some great stories about his Cold War VP days…

 

[Kirkhill]

Navy Shortfall In P-8 Antisubmarine Aircraft Could Be A Problem For The Air Force Too

If the Navy doesn't meet its full warfighting requirement for antisubmarine planes, the Air Force could face challenges on its AWACS replacement.

www.forbes.com

P-8A Poseidon successfully takes control of Boeing MQ-25 Stingray drone

Boeing tested the capabilities of the software that makes the MQ-25 Stingray aerial refueling drone and the P-8A Poseidon airplane work together.

gagadget.com

Drones Could Save the Navy’s Troubled P-8 Patrol Plane

If the P-8 can’t spot subs, maybe robots can

medium.com

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ref the last link; MAD is a great backup/confirmatory sensor but not a great search one. I can’t recall a mission, exercise or op, where MAD was the primary sensor.

Multi static acoustics MSA is where the game is at, IMO, for ASW. Sure you need a good SS radar, ESM and MAD but…MSA.

This was interesting…Tac Talks: LIDAR and Laser - how vulnerable is the RAN to the emergence of light spectrum weapons and sensors? | Royal Australian Navy

 

[SupersonicMax]

Don't want to take the whole "firing missiles" prestige away from those of the fast-jet persuasion.

I don’t think anyone has issues with other platforms employing weapons. But I can help but roll my eyes when Navs (they were still Navs back then) suggested (and was insistent) that the CP-140 should be carrying AMRAAM.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

 

[Good2Golf]

Ref the last link; MAD is a great backup/confirmatory sensor but not a great search one. I can’t recall a mission, exercise or op, where MAD was the primary sensor.

Multi static acoustics MSA is where the game is at, IMO, for ASW. Sure you need a good SS radar, ESM and MAD but…MSA.

This was interesting…Tac Talks: LIDAR and Laser - how vulnerable is the RAN to the emergence of light spectrum weapons and sensors? | Royal Australian Navy

Although....advances in quantum sensors/gravimetry have the potential to give one or two orders of magnitude improvement to performance that would turn hundreds of meters into kilometres...which might make it more than a "confirmation over top" tool.

I don’t think anyone has issues with other platforms employing weapons. But I can help but roll my eyes when Navs (they were still Navs back then) suggested (and was insistent) that the CP-140 should be carrying AMRAAM.

That would be a solid filter for me for the ANAVs whom I would chose to ignore. Harpoon/SLAM I'd agree with totally...AMRAAM/Sidewinder/etc. yup....roll eyes.