CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[CypressSplit]

Statement on the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force - In the news - Newsroom - PSPC

As part of its defence policy Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is seeking to replace the CP-140 Aurora fleet with a Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF).

www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca

"...the government has determined that the P-8A Poseidon is the only currently available aircraft that meets all of the CMMA operational requirements, namely anti-submarine warfare and C4ISR."

"Canada has recently submitted a Letter of Request (LOR) through the United States government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program outlining Canada’s requirements and requesting an offer. These requirements include up to 16 P-8A Poseidon aircraft..."

 

[OldSolduer]

Statement on the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force - In the news - Newsroom - PSPC

As part of its defence policy Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is seeking to replace the CP-140 Aurora fleet with a Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF).

www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca

"...the government has determined that the P-8A Poseidon is the only currently available aircraft that meets all of the CMMA operational requirements, namely anti-submarine warfare and C4ISR."

"Canada has recently submitted a Letter of Request (LOR) through the United States government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program outlining Canada’s requirements and requesting an offer. These requirements include up to 16 P-8A Poseidon aircraft..."

For your resident crayon eater - is this good?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

16 is better than 8-12.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

For your resident crayon eater - is this good?

It is a step in the right direction. I’d like to see the fleet size bigger but it’s a good step.

 

[Good2Golf]

For your resident crayon eater - is this good?

…almost…


@suffolkowner bet 15, which is the closest. Perhaps a two stage prize. SO’s got the first round…now for the runner up prize…

For Suffolkowner, who can more comfortably prepare to celebrate his symbolic win.

 

[dapaterson]

It is a step in the right direction. I’d like to see the fleet size bigger but it’s a good step.

A larger fleet might require press gangs for WestJet pilots...

 

[Spencer100]

A larger fleet might require press gangs for WestJet pilots...

Just a thought. That sounds like a great career path if you can. Join the RCAF become a pilot. Go for a P-8 seat. Would you not be fully type rated? And could you go straight to flying for Westjet etc?

Also would your flying in the P-8 be like things other 737 pilots would never do?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The airliner-only types aren’t going to be flying like military P-8 ones.

I only know 140 pilots that have went to the commercial carriers; they didn’t just jump in a seat and fly day 1. The details I’ll leave to pilots as it’s outside my lane, but I’d guess there is also some union/seniority stuff that factors in with the airlines as well.

 

[Mick]

The airliner-only types aren’t going to be flying like military P-8 ones.

I only know 140 pilots that have went to the commercial carriers; they didn’t just jump in a seat and fly day 1. The details I’ll leave to pilots as it’s outside my lane, but I’d guess there is also some union/seniority stuff that factors in with the airlines as well.

Airline seniority would definitely be a hurdle to overcome... but a pension would be a nice cushion while making FO pay for the first 5 years at the airline.

On the corporate side, RCAF Challenger pilots could easily slide directly into the left seat (assuming they have the appropriate TC licenses and have completed the type rating).

 

[Mick]

The airliner-only types aren’t going to be flying like military P-8 ones.

Perhaps you've already touched on this (you probably have) but how does the P8 flying profile compare to the 140? Low-level cranking and banking still required?

 

[DBNSG]

It is a step in the right direction. I’d like to see the fleet size bigger but it’s a good step.

How much bigger? 18 ,21? How much rebuilding of Comox and Greenwood will be needed?

 

[Quirky]

Comox is tiny, how will the wing manage 8-10 P8s and infrastructure?

Better not touch that golf course….

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Perhaps you've already touched on this (you probably have) but how does the P8 flying profile compare to the 140? Low-level cranking and banking still required?

The USN is going with some advanced kit for ASW that we don’t use now in the RCAF; this allows them, in theory, to have higher altitudes for things like ASW Ops; HAAWC being (part of) the core of the way they’ve moved to doing business. CP140 Low level cranking and banking is usually happening for a RTT (return to target) manoeuvre, if MAD is involved in prosecuting a submerged contact, or for putting a search or kill store in the water when precision is important.

U.S. Navy Declares IOC for Boeing’s HAAWC - Naval News

Boeing's High Altitude Anti-Submarine Warfare Weapon Capability, or HAAWC, has achieved initial operational capability status from the U.S. Navy.

www.navalnews.com

“Fifty-three Golfs” are also something that can help with higher altitude ASW. With standard, non-GPS buoys it’s better to drop them at lower altitudes. There’s reasons that might be obvious but I won’t get into that as it’s touching on things that are in documents that are Controlled Goods or higher.

https://sonobuoytechsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Q53G-GPS.pdf

These would be, of course, more expensive than standard, non-GPS sonos and traditional air-dropped torpedoes.

Having said that, I’ve seen USN P-8s working as low as 200’ doing ID on surface vessels when the weather and tasking conditions required it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

How much bigger? 18 ,21? How much rebuilding of Comox and Greenwood will be needed?

Personally, if I were controlling the LRP world, I’d go back to the fleet size we had with the Argus; 30ish.

Anything “infrastructure requirements” I will leave to the official press releases. Suffice to say, it would likely have been looked at and could be part of future announcements.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Comox is tiny, how will the wing manage 8-10 P8s and infrastructure?

Better not touch that golf course….

I think the fleet will be spread similar to how it is now; the East coast has the OTU, one operational and the Force Development Sqn. That should see Comox having a smaller % of the fleet there for 1 operational Sqn which has been the reality for decades.

 

[suffolkowner]

For Suffolkowner, who can more comfortably prepare to celebrate his symbolic win.

Im feeling lucky

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Im feeling lucky

I’ll send you my credit card number. Spend “as much as you think you need to” on LottoMax tickets!

 

[zoomie36]

Statement on the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force - In the news - Newsroom - PSPC
soooo we would like to know the price but want more details as well. This way next year we can have another PAYCUTFORGEN to help us afford it

 

[calculus]

More on this:

Canada in the market for up to 16 military surveillance aircraft

Canada is looking to buy up to 16 advanced military surveillance aircraft and has formally requested information and an offer from the U.S. government, the federal procurement department said Monday. The Department of National Defence (DND) and the Royal Canadian Air Force say they have...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

 

[GR66]

More on this:

Canada in the market for up to 16 military surveillance aircraft

Canada is looking to buy up to 16 advanced military surveillance aircraft and has formally requested information and an offer from the U.S. government, the federal procurement department said Monday. The Department of National Defence (DND) and the Royal Canadian Air Force say they have...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

You'll note that the article says we're looking to buy "up to" 16 aircraft. Depending on the price (and the pressure applied by the US) we could still end up with the originally mentioned 8-12 aircraft. I truly hope that's not the case but this is Canada after all...