Boeing to offer P-8 as CP-140 Replacement

[YZT580]

Not if Uncle Sam says they aren’t….

is there any real alternative or will any replacements other than the P8 have to be bespoke

 

[Good2Golf]

is there any real alternative or will any replacements other than the P8 have to be bespoke

Not an MP/LRP/ASW guy, but I think the Kawasaki P-1 is the only other reasonably comparable ASW aircraft, before you dropped into the missionized, not purpose-built category.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

is there any real alternative or will any replacements other than the P8 have to be bespoke

any aircraft would be measured against the stated HLMRs; high level mandatory requirements.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2022/02/10/40e474721d25ec41e82e2941aa3754f5/canadian_multi-mission_aircraft_project_request_for_information_02.10.2022.pdf

 

[YZT580]

any aircraft would be measured against the stated HLMRs; high level mandatory requirements.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2022/02/10/40e474721d25ec41e82e2941aa3754f5/canadian_multi-mission_aircraft_project_request_for_information_02.10.2022.pdf

so time to fish or cut bait

 

[Spencer100]

so time to fish or cut bait

Cut bait

Do you really think Trudeau wants ti buy a Boeing product?

It's a waiting game. The Bombardier piece came out a couple of weeks ago.

I would say chances are pretty much in favor of a business jet with some mission systems. Just got put a hard point on the wing. I would think a weapon load is very low on the priority list for Liberal politicians.

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m not so sure. If our side has been sailing SSBNs/SSGNs/SSNs with broad daylight departures to signal Vlad, I don’t think non-weapon used platforms are a realistic ‘good enough’ position in the future.

I still believe there is a lot more pressure (direction?) from the US than many here seem to acknowledge. I out odds on at least some form of P-8 op fleet, even if there’s some kind of unweaponized compromise to address political factors as well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

so time to fish or cut bait

I believe that decision for companies passed almost 10 months ago; Para 5 of the RFI.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Cut bait

Do you really think Trudeau wants ti buy a Boeing product?

It's a waiting game. The Bombardier piece came out a couple of weeks ago.

Yup - 9ish months after the RFI response. Para 5 of the RFI says the RFI may be updated and how, but I’ve not seen any changes so…

I would say chances are pretty much in favor of a business jet with some mission systems. Just got put a hard point on the wing. I would think a weapon load is very low on the priority list for Liberal politicians.

I’ll disagree completely on this. The HLMRs aren’t “just for show”. You don’t just “put a hard point on a wing”; it’s not like putting a fin on a Honda accord in Jimmy’s garage and some paint and voila.

The 6500 doesn’t exist as a MPA at all. Weapons loads are pretty important on MPAs; consider an MPA has the capability to kill a SSBN…I think we’ll see this get due consideration. Our torps like and need specific temps and I have heard nothing about us moving to electric powered fish etc.

Remember - Canada has an obligation WRT maritime approaches for the NORAD stuff…

 

[Good2Golf]

I believe that decision for companies passed almost 10 months ago; Para 5 of the RFI.

Yes, similar working to the NASAMS procurement for UKR….oh, wait…

 

[dimsum]

Do you really think Trudeau wants ti buy a Boeing product?

He signed off on the F-35, against his 2015 campaign promise. So yes, I think he would buy a Boeing product if it is the one that best meets the requirements.

I'm purely guessing here but Bombardier's piece is probably a struggling gasp at getting some folks on their side. Around the same time, a Canadian industry group also said something similar, basically talking about Canadian jobs lost.

I suspect they already know their chances vs Boeing P-8, and are Hail Mary'ing at this point.

 

[FSTO]

Dumb ass things said on the campaign trail:

"I write with my pen, zero 'elicopters"

"The F35 doesn't work"

Then there is this gem from Denis Coderre
"What would we use the C-17 for?" (paraphrasing a bit)

 

[suffolkowner]

Just buy the 15 P8's or whatever and throw in a couple GlobalEye/Sentinel Global Express 6000/6500's and everyone is happy

 

[YZT580]

Just buy the 15 P8's or whatever and throw in a couple GlobalEye/Sentinel Global Express 6000/6500's and everyone is happy

give the globaleye to the coast guard for Arctic patrol and include one station for military. Home base in BG which will keep Quebec happy and patrol westbound to Inuvik, overnight and then the return trip. Shouldn't have a problem staffing a single position and would free up the P8s for the east and west coast and to pursue any observations from the man on the Bombardier without maintaining what would be primarily a fruitless effort in the Arctic

 

[OldSolduer]

Dumb ass things said on the campaign trail:

"I write with my pen, zero 'elicopters"

"The F35 doesn't work"

Then there is this gem from Denis Coderre
"What would we use the C-17 for?" (paraphrasing a bit)

Denis Coderre described as “dumb as dirt” ? That one?

That quote doesn’t surprise me.

 

[dapaterson]

Just buy the 15 P8's or whatever and throw in a couple GlobalEye/Sentinel Global Express 6000/6500's and everyone is happy

The P8 cost close to $10B in development costs. Were the CAF to pay for development for another ISR aircraft, the costs would be at least half that - before buying any aircraft or equipment.

Better to buy off the shelf into a program with multiple international partners than to develop a bespoke platform that requires bespoke solutions (and billions of Canadian dollars) to every future changes.

 

[dimsum]

Just buy the 15 P8's or whatever and throw in a couple GlobalEye/Sentinel Global Express 6000/6500's and everyone is happy

Those three aircraft are designed for very different purposes.

 

[FSTO]

Denis Coderre described as “dumb as dirt” ? That one?

That quote doesn’t surprise me.

Yep, he was a POS no talent ass clown as a MP.

 

[FSTO]

than to develop a bespoke platform that requires bespoke solutions (and billions of Canadian dollars) to every future changes.

But that's the Canadian way!

 

[suffolkowner]

The P8 cost close to $10B in development costs. Were the CAF to pay for development for another ISR aircraft, the costs would be at least half that - before buying any aircraft or equipment.

Better to buy off the shelf into a program with multiple international partners than to develop a bespoke platform that requires bespoke solutions (and billions of Canadian dollars) to every future changes.

those global express ISR are already in service though with the UK having operated the Sentinel in the past and the UAE operating the GlobalEye and the US the E-11 etc

Those three aircraft are designed for very different purposes.

Yes but the options have been out there and developed and in service if there is value in them for the RCAF or Bombardier

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Adding (mini) fleets. Good idea for capabilities …where are the techs and aircrew coming from?