All things Charlottesville (merged)

[The Bread Guy]

OK, to be clear:  THE FOLLOWING IS SATIRE!  That said, here's an interesting take on arguments used by both sides in the debate ...

Rally for Free Speech! *
Russia without BS blog, 21 Aug 2017

Greetings fellow liberty lovers! In case some of you are not aware, in the near future I will be moving back to the United States for some time, and given the imperiled state of free speech in my homeland, my return cannot come soon enough!

Let’s face it, America has long been suffering under the jackboot of freedom-hating political correctness! People are being locked up just for sharing or even liking posts on social media! No wait…That’s in Russia. But it certainly could be America any day now, and the only way to avoid this fate is to stand up for free speech in all its forms.

This is why I’m announcing the planning phase for the American Islamic State and Al Qaeda Rally for Free Speech, to be held in New York City’s scenic Central Park. This entirely peaceful and non-violent rally will allow American and America-based supporters of the Islamic State and Al Qaeda to put aside their differences and voice their support for the creation of a Wahhabist Sunni Islamic society under Sharia law.

Now I can already hear legions of anti-free speech Stalins objecting to this expression of personal liberty. Many of them will say that the Islamic State and Al Qaeda are terrorist groups. Well that may very well be true of some self-proclaimed members of the Islamic State, as well as some members of Al Qaeda. But if there is an American citizen who is sympathetic to either of those organizations and yet at the same time is a totally law-abiding taxpayer, why should they be denied their First Amendment rights just because some other supporters of said organizations outside the US went to extremes? Also, just because these fine people want to impose their interpretation of Sunni Islamic law doesn’t necessarily mean this would entail violence. It’s entirely possible that the vast majority of Americans will willingly accept this transition to a Wahhabist, Sharia-based society. Many others may choose to vote with their feet and move. There’s no reason to assume that American Islamic State and Al Qaeda supporters are advocating violence unless they explicitly state that they are. Opinions don’t kill anyone.

And if any Social Justice Warriors out there try to point out that the Islamic State and Al Qaeda have regularly carried out violent attacks and atrocities, I would remind them that every story has two sides, and most people these days would caution against trusting the so-called “mainstream media.” Is it right to pronounce these organizations guilty without listening to their supporters’ defense? Have they no right to tell their side of the story? If that’s what you think, maybe you’d be more at home in STALINIST RUSSIA than America. I’ll say it again- freedom…of…speech. The Founders didn’t stutter.

I look forward to the support of the Youtube skeptic and atheist community when it comes to promoting and popularizing this rally for free speech. I know that while many of these personalities have made their careers from criticizing and mocking Islam in all forms, they are also people who live by the dictum of “I disagree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it!”

More than any other demonstration in recent years, the American Islamic State/Al Qaeda Rally for Free Speech will serve as the highest affirmation of Americans’ commitment to the Constitution and its First Amendment. Dates to be announced soon. I hope to see you there! Otherwise you’re a libtard cucklord Commie Cultural Marxist PC SJW who hates free speech! Praise KEK!

*For those whose ability to detect sarcasm is diminished, and in particular those who work in law enforcement or the intelligence community, this post is STRICTLY SATIRICAL.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Did past administrations keep ranting nine months after the election?

Depends on whether variations on "the current problem with (X) is Bush's fault" count.

Canadian federal and provincial governments also play the game.

 

[dapaterson]

>Did past administrations keep ranting nine months after the election?

Depends on whether variations on "the current problem with (X) is Bush's fault" count.

Canadian federal and provincial governments also play the game.

Generally, it's the fault of the prior administration throughout the first term. For the second term, it's the fault of the world economic situation.  If there aren't term limits, then in the third term it's the fault of the opposition for making things uncertain.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[FJAG]

Generally, it's the fault of the prior administration throughout the first term. For the second term, it's the fault of the world economic situation.  If there aren't term limits, then in the third term it's the fault of the opposition for making things uncertain.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

:rofl:

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

>Did past administrations keep ranting nine months after the election?

Depends on whether variations on "the current problem with (X) is Bush's fault" count.

But, Hillary Clinton never was a president. She was only a candidate.

I don't recall President Obama ranting for months and months post-election about  John McCain, or Mitt Romney.

Or, GW Bush about Al Gore, or John Kerry.

Or, Bill Clinton about  Bush Sr. or Bob Dole.

Or, Bush Sr. about Mike Dukakis.

Or, Ronald Reagan about Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale.

( Only Bush Sr, and Jimmy Carter were ever presidents. )

Charlottesville - Defending monuments to our past
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/21/16175906/donald-trump-charlottesville-confederate-monuments

 

[Loachman]

"Riley Dennis Explains Why Leftist Violence is Okay": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c09aGR8BqqE

There's a bit of language in this clip, just in case that offends one.

 

[jollyjacktar]

:goodpost:

 

[mariomike]

The Wall Street Journal

Charlottesville violence sparks ACLU policy shift against armed protesters.

ACLU Will No Longer Defend Hate Groups Protesting With Firearms.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/aclu-changes-policy-on-defending-hate-groups-protesting-with-firearms-1503010167?mod=e2tw
Executive director says violence and guns at Charlottesville rally spurred new stance.

After backing white nationalists in Charlottesville, ACLU announces it won’t defend armed protesters.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Banning firearms is great virtue signalling but guns don't seem to be the problem. If anything civilians with guns seem to be keeping the peace when the police are (wisely) choosing not to get involved.

 

[FJAG]

Banning firearms is great virtue signalling but guns don't seem to be the problem. If anything civilians with guns seem to be keeping the peace when the police are (wisely) choosing not to get involved.

Here's where I take a bit of a different tack from before.

From what I read and saw on video, the armed militia platoon-sized group that showed up professed themselves to be neutral peacekeepers and not a part of the original march. I don't think they accomplished anything but posing and looking various degrees of buff and leaving when asked to by the police. They certainly didn't keep any peace. I think that anyone who brings a group of several dozen armed folks to stand as "neutrals" between thousands of people who stand in violent opposition to each other needs to go back to first principles to learn the finer art of riot control. Having an AR-15 as your sole riot control weapon will only lead to needless deaths and murder charges.

More importantly I think the ACLU has stepped back from the principled positions that they held for years. The fact of the matter is that - agree with them or not - the US Supreme Court has ruled in Heller and the ACLU wasn't happy with that decision and is bucking it. I don't agree with Miller either but in the long run, when your organization is founded on the principle of civil liberties and the rule of law, then you better follow the law or be prepared to be branded a hypocrite.

https://www.aclu.org/other/second-amendment

http://thehill.com/homenews/347053-aclu-revises-policy-to-avoid-supporting-hate-groups-protesting-with-firearms

:cheers:

Edited to change US v Miller to US v Heller. Miller was the original 1939 decision and Heller the 2008 expansion of it, Mea Culpa. Thanks Blackadder1916.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wouldn't be able to find it if I tried probably but I seen a few videos where people were making reference to the armed militia helping keep the peace. In hindsight though I think you're right, 30 people like that are quickly going to be overwhelmed if someone really takes umbrage at them being there. Guns in a riot can quickly be used against the owner too and as you say there isn't a lot of room for escalating.

Not to sound like a typical gunnut "ban cars" but really if the ACLU was making this move to prevent violence they should look at banning the primary weapons at these things- all the melee weapons.  That said I have no idea how on earth they would ban sticks and clubs.

Maybe they should also ban people covering their faces at protests.

 

[Loachman]

I wouldn't be able to find it if I tried probably but I seen a few videos where people were making reference to the armed militia helping keep the peace.

I'd have to go back and review the material posted, but I believe that the violence did not break out until the militia were asked/ordered to leave.

Maybe they should also ban people covering their faces at protests.

That was done at another rally a few months ago. I cannot remember where. Police on the perimeter were requiring all participants (mainly dressed in black) to remove their masks if they wanted to be allowed into the area. This was all filmed, at least by private citizens if not officially as well. That is doubtlessly a deterrent to violence and should be SOP.

I'll try and find the clip.

 

[mariomike]

Newsweek

Tuesday 22 August 2017

Alt-Right ‘America First’ Rallies Move Online After Boston ‘Free Speech’ Protest Is Overrun
http://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-america-first-rallies-move-online-after-boston-free-speech-protest-653372

Sixty-seven planned rallies in 36 states that were meant to attract members of the so-called alt-right and other racist groups are moving online after a “free speech” rally on Saturday in Boston attended by white supremacists was drowned out by demonstrators.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Newsweek

Tuesday 22 August 2017

Alt-Right ‘America First’ Rallies Move Online After Boston ‘Free Speech’ Protest Is Overrun
http://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-america-first-rallies-move-online-after-boston-free-speech-protest-653372

The “alt-right” label was coined by white nationalist Richard Spencer and acts as an umbrella term for white supremacists, conspiracy theorists and misogynists.

What they really mean is anyone who identifies as conservative is alt-right.

 

[mariomike]

Newsweek
8/22/17

Protesters Fall Into Neo-Nazis’ Trap by Confronting Them
http://www.newsweek.com/anti-fascist-protesters-neo-nazi-trap-confrontation-653475

How should we protest neo-Nazis? Lessons from German history.

 

[FJAG]

Now this is an interesting article about why the South didn't celebrate with statuary one of it's better generals, MGen William Mahone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-confederate-general-who-was-erased-from-history_us_599b3747e4b06a788a2af43e?section=us_politics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mahone

Note that one of Mahone's most significant expoits was the rallying of Southern forces after the initial devastating attack by the Union at the Battle of the Crater. This battle was also marked by an episode of an almost wholesale slaughter of Union attackers (most of them black) who found themselves trapped inside the crater because of Union leadership ineptitude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Crater

:cheers:

 

[The Bread Guy]

Something else to further refine some definitions -- differentiating domestic terrorism from hate crimes from homegrown violent extremism (source)

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

A good video on the caused of the civil war. Slavery was THE cause, which is why the statues are important to all sides. That said, the fact that they were generally raised in the "lost cause" period of the 1920's provides the context for today's problems- the statues commemorate an event specifically undertaken to maintain slavery, that "peculiar institution" of the south. While WW2 monuments for example note the horror of war, these ones celebrate it. THAT is the issue

https://www.prageru.com/courses/history/was-civil-war-about-slavery

 

[GR66]

...

From what I read and saw on video, the armed militia platoon-sized group that showed up professed themselves to be neutral peacekeepers and not a part of the original march. I don't think they accomplished anything but posing and looking various degrees of buff and leaving when asked to by the police. They certainly didn't keep any peace. I think that anyone who brings a group of several dozen armed folks to stand as "neutrals" between thousands of people who stand in violent opposition to each other needs to go back to first principles to learn the finer art of riot control. Having an AR-15 as your sole riot control weapon will only lead to needless deaths and murder charges.

...

Maybe they would have been more effective if they had been issued blue helmets???

>

 

[The Bread Guy]

What they really mean is anyone who identifies as conservative is alt-right.

My guess is that it's more a question of "all identifying as alt-right are conservative, but not all identifying as conservative are alt-right" -- just like "all antifa identify as leftist or anarchist, but not all leftists or anarchists identify as antifa".

And as for what alt-right stands for, a manifesto at a page whose address is registered to Richard Spencer really does say it all - posted for the record (and also attached in case the link doesn't work for you - or you don't want to link there)  ...

The Charlottesville Statement
August 11, 2017

1. Race

Race is real. Race matters. Race is the foundation of identity.

“White” is shorthand for a worldwide constellation of peoples, each of which is derived from the Indo-European race, often called Aryan. “European” refers to a core stock—Celtic, Germanic, Hellenic, Latin, Nordic, and Slavic—from which related cultures and a shared civilization sprang.

2. Jews

Jews are an ethno-religious people distinct from Europeans. At various times, they have existed within European societies, without being of them. The preservation of their identity as Jews was and is contingent on resistance to assimilation, sometimes expressed as hostility towards their hosts. “Judeo-Christian values” might be a quaint political slogan, but it is a distortion of the historical and metaphysical reality of both Jews and Europeans.

3. The Ethno-State

Nations must secure their existence and uniqueness and promote their own development and flourishing. The state is an existential entity, and, at its best, a physical manifestation of a people’s being, order, and will to survive. Racially or ethnically defined states are legitimate and necessary.

4. Metapolitics

Spirit is the wellspring of culture, and politics is downstream of that. The Alt-Right wages a situational and ideological war on those deconstructing European history and identity. The decrepit values of Woodstock and Wall Street mean nothing to us.

5. White America

The founding population of the United States was primarily Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. By the Great War, a coherent American nation emerged that was European and Christian. Other races inhabited the continent and were often set in conflict or subservience to Whites. Whites alone defined America as a European society and political order.

6. Europe

Europe is our common home, and our ancestors’ bone and blood lie in its soil.

European unity emerged at critical points in history, but so did fragmentation, rivalry, and betrayal. As brother nations, Europeans have competed with one another, and even hated and killed one another. We can no longer afford the luxury of intra-racial squabbling. “Brothers wars” gain us nothing, and directly lead to our collective downfall. Europeans must come together as a family.

The so-called “refugee crisis” is an invasion, a war without bullets, taking place on the fields of race, religion, sex, and morality. At stake is Europe’s very identity—whether the continent will be the locus of our people’s shared story, or become just another Islamic outpost.

7. Family

The family—a man and woman in a loving relationship that produces offspring—is an essential, indispensable foundation for a healthy and functioning society.

8. Human Nature

Man is not a blank slate on which to be written, nor was he born a guileless, noble savage. Human nature—the reality of race, sex, heritability, and innate endowments—is the most powerful force shaping individuals, families, societies, and nations.

9. Women and Sex

Women, as mothers and caregivers, are key to the future of our race and civilization. We oppose feminism, deviancy, the futile denial of biological reality, and everything destructive to healthy relations between men and women. We must overcome today’s debased and lonely “porn culture” and return to a sexuality that is fruitful and erotic in the truest sense of the word.

10. Foreign Affairs

The foreign policies of European states (including immigration, diplomacy, and war) should be based on the safeguarding of its peoples—and not be beholden to special or foreign interests, nor to corporate profit motives, nor to the chimeras of globalism, humanitarianism, or the End of History. Insofar as “chauvinism” means attempting to transform non-Europeans into Europeans, we are not “Western chauvinists.”

11. Speech

American citizens should enjoy freedom of speech as guaranteed by the Constitution; we endorse this value for all European peoples. We oppose those who seek to suppress the speech of people with whom they disagree, whether through government censorship, corporate policy, digital platform denial, or intimidation.

12. Firearms

All U.S. citizens, and all Europeans, should have the right to bear arms, as a means of protecting themselves and their families and enjoying the manly sport of hunting.

13. Globalization

International trade and the good-faith exchange of ideas can be beneficial to all. Economic and political globalization, however, has been destructive to authentic cultures. Industrialized countries are being transformed into great “nothings” and “nowheres”: indistinguishable, concrete dumping grounds and shopping centers, divorced from culture, people, and history. Globalization threatens not just Europeans but every unique identity on Earth.

14. The Left

Leftism is an ideology of death and must be confronted and defeated. “Losing gracefully” will eventuate in the destruction of our people and civilization.

15. Economics

Economic freedom is not an end in itself. All economic policies should serve the people of the nation; the interests of businessmen and global merchants should never take precedence over the well-being of workers, families, and the natural world.

16. Urban Life

The automobile, the highway system, and resultant “car culture” have contributed to the death of cities and towns. While not everyone will live in urban environments, cities are vital institutions of culture, community, learning, and the arts. They should never have been abandoned by American Whites of older generations and should be reestablished as jewels of our civilization.

17. The Natural World

We are a special part of the natural order, being in it and above it. We have the potential to become nature’s steward or its destroyer. Putting aside contentious matters like global warming and resource depletion, European countries should invest in national parks, wilderness preserves, and wildlife refuges, as well as productive and sustainable farms and ranches. The natural world—and our experience of it—is an end in itself.

18. The ‘68ers

The generation born between the years 1945 and 1964 abrogated its duty to safeguard and pass down a civilization to its children. The so-called “‘68ers” engage in childish narcissism of the most extreme kind; they bear responsibility for today’s lamentable state of affairs; and they are seemingly unable even to recognize their culpability.

A new generation of leadership is desperately needed.

19. Education

Modern education—from preschool to the doctoral level—has become corrupted past the point of recognition. This industry (both public and private) serves leftist ideologues, loan financiers, and a new class of administrators far more than it serves students and parents.

Children should not be indoctrinated in liberal dogma but given a foundation in language, mathematics, the arts, history, and science. Higher education—far from being a “right” or a “pathway to the middle class”—is only appropriate for a cognitive elite dedicated to truth; it is improper, even detrimental, for most. Practical education—trade schools and apprenticeships—should be revived as the norm for most citizens.

20. Personal Duties

A man distinguishes himself by his deeds. And every man, in his own way, must strive to be something more than a man: to be honored by his heirs; to be part of something greater than his self.