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All things Charlottesville (merged)

Politics are behind the War on Statues, more than anything else. Democrats hate President Trump. The vast bulk of the media hate President Trump. Many in the Republican establishment hate President Trump. He is a threat to their comfortable, complacent, cushy lives and corruption.

In addition to the article below, the Democrat connection to this event is significant. The Governor is a Democrat, as is the Charlottesville Mayor. The organizer of the rally was an Obama-supporting Democrat, former CNN journalist, and former Occupy Wall Street activist until last November - I'm guessing pretty soon after President Trump's triumphant win - when he suddenly converted and founded a white supremacist organization (I posted a link to his background a day or three ago).

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but there are enough convenient and suggestive "coincidences" here...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450551/confederate-statues-republicans-democrats-should-let-them-be?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Week%20in%20Review%202017-08-20&utm_term=VDHM

Let It Be

by Kevin D. Williamson August 17, 2017 4:00 AM

The best thing to do about Confederate statues is . . .
nothing.

I am never quite sure whether I am really a Southerner. Texas was in the Confederacy, but West Texas is a lot more Albuquerque than it is like Birmingham. I have never felt any sympathy for the Lost Cause. If I were building monuments to figures from that era, I'd choose Frederick Douglass, Thaddeus Stevens, or, if I'm in a mood, John Brown.

Southerners - and some conservative sentimentalists - tell themselves two convenient lies about the Civil War. One is that the Confederate cause was an honorable one, the other is that the war wasn't really about slavery. Neither of those stands up to very much scrutiny, and the former is mostly false in no small part because the latter is almost entirely false.

There were honorable men fighting on the Southern side, to be sure, and their fight was an honorable one to the extent that risking life and limb on behalf of one's home and people is generally honorable. General Lee is widely considered to have been an honorable military man, and so was Field Marshal Rommel. But General Lee's cause was destroying the United States of America to facilitate slavery. The historical record, including practically every Confederate document explaining Southern separation, makes that clear enough. That the abolitionists were imperfect in their commitment to the liberation of the slaves and that there were Southern men of conscience who detested slavery and yet fought on behalf of its preserver does not change any of that. The War Between the States wasn't about cotton tariffs.

Many of the monuments and statues now being abominated and disassembled were not erected in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but some years after, often in reaction to such modest advances in the political and social condition of African Americans as the early 20th century produced. Some were nothing short of consecrated shrines to white supremacy erected to Southern political powers in league with such miscreants as the Ku Klux Klan. To the extent that today's reaction against these monuments is in essence Democrats cleaning up their own mess, there is some justice to it.

But there would have been some justice to it in 1938 or 1964 as well. The current attack on Confederate monuments is only another front in the Left's endless kulturkampf. The Left is committed to always being on the offense in the culture wars, and, with Donald Trump and his white-resentment politics installed in the White House and Republicans lined up queasily behind him, the choice of going after Confederate totems is clever. It brings out the kooks and the cranks, and some respectable conservatives feel obliged to defend them. Getting Republicans to relitigate the Civil War is a great victory for the Democrats, who were, after all, on the wrong side of it as a matter of historical fact. Rather than embrace their party's proudest and finest legacy, Republicans are now trying to explain away President Trump's insistence that there were some very fine gentlemen among the tiki-Nazis in Charlottesville. President Trump's schoolboy forensics is here particularly embarrassing. From Abraham Lincoln to Donald Trump: Evolution runs backward for American political parties.

We should not, in any case, accept the fiction that what is transpiring at the moment is a moral crusade rather than political opportunism.

Monuments have a way of being repurposed: Rome is an overwhelmingly Christian city, and its most famous monument is the Colosseum, where Christians were put to death for sport and for political gain. (It was, however, more common for martyrs to meet their fate at the Circus Maximus.) A famous Roman obelisk, originally brought from Egypt by Caligula as a symbol of imperial power, today stands in St. Peter's Square, crowned by a small reliquary believed to contain fragments of the True Cross. The Roman Catholics might have proceeded in the same way as the Taliban with Buddhist monuments, smashing every relic of their pagan forebears. The Christian world has undergone such paroxysms from time to time: Iconoclasm is puritanism in vandalism.

The alternative mode is that associated with the ongoing - 492 years and counting - fight over the Babri mosque in India, which was, according to Hindu tradition, built on the site of a temple to Rama. In 1992, Hindu activists sacked the mosque, setting off riots that claimed the lives of at least 2,000 people. In April of this year, India's supreme court reinstated criminal conspiracy charges against a number of politicians involved in the episode, including L. K. Advani, a major national figure who cofounded the current ruling party. They'll fight another 500 years over it. And Babur's empire was a slave empire, too.

The older and wiser cultures learn to absorb, to repurpose, and to allow the patina of age to cover up the lingering pangs of historical wrongs. Which is good: You cannot walk 25 feet in Rome without seeing a monument associated with some ancient horror or a statue of some god-awful emperor, but it would be a shame if they'd all been knocked down for political or moralistic purposes. And not all of these are important works of art: Some of them are simply old.

But conservatives have a soft spot for old things. We might look at those monuments the way Chesterton looked at a fence, trying to understand why they were put up in the first place before we decide to knock them down. They were not always put up for good reasons, but the conquering North indulged Southern jealousy of Southern honor for a pretty good reason: the desire for peace. The Civil War had been brutal, and the South was - this part of the story is not as widely understood as it should be - desperately poor, and remained essentially a Third World country within the United States until the post-war era. No sense poking them for no good reason.

Anti-Southern sentiment among Democrats has grown, predictably, with the migration of Southern voters to the Republican party, a very long process that began in the early days of the New Deal and was confirmed only toward the end of the 20th century. (Mississippi had one Republican governor in all the 20th century.) As the country moved politically in a more conservative direction, and as the locus of conservative power moved south, anti-Southern invective became more common among progressives who a generation or two before had been all too happy to do business with a William Fulbright or a Woodrow Wilson. National panics over Confederate revanchism, like New York Times crusades against homelessness, tend to coincide with Republican presidencies. That is not coincidence.

The war on statuary serves two purposes: The first is to humiliate Southerners in retribution for their support of Republican politicians and conservative causes, particularly religious and social causes. The second is to help Democrats win elections without white men. If only whites voted, the last Democratic president would have been Lyndon Johnson. If only white men voted, Mitt Romney would have won 45 states and 501 electoral votes in 2012. Donald Trump's victory in 2016 showed Democrats that political math behind the Obama coalition - assembling enough groups of aggrieved minorities to create a majority - is no guarantee of victory in the Electoral College, especially when the charismatic young black man is replaced by a degenerate little old lady from Park Ridge. Keeping non-whites in a state of panic and agitation is necessary to Democrats' political aspirations. Twenty years of economic prosperity and social peace would do grievous damage to the Left: The Reagan boom, which lasted from the early 1980s until nearly the turn of the century, reduced the Left to little more than a few deans of students and had Bill Clinton complaining that he's been forced to become an Eisenhower Republican to win and keep the presidency.

The Democrats' motives here are tawdry and self-serving, for the most part. As cheap and silly as Southern sentimentality can be, the desire to reduce and humiliate one's fellow citizens is distasteful. We would all do better to take Abraham Lincoln's advice: "We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies." Friends overlook one another's little vices.

And friends do not terrorize one another by torchlight. Republicans would do well to remember what the alternative to being the party of Lincoln really is.

What ought conservatives to do? They should listen to the oldest and most widely applicable of all the councils of conservatism and do - exactly - nothing. The ancient conservative bias in favor of inertia here points toward the wiser course. There is no need to join in with the vandals and the iconoclasts, even if we sympathize with some of their good-faith reservations about Confederate memorials. But to the extent that the iconoclasm here mainly consists of local authorities making democratic decisions about the disposition of public property, there is a case for political quietism in this matter. This isn't Yalta. The Left's vandalism is intended mainly to get a rise out of the Right, in the hopes of getting some Republican to wrong-foot himself over a racial question. Trump's easy pickin's for that, but there isn't any reason actual Republicans have to go along with him. In the words of the conservative philosopher Paul McCartney: Let it be.

Republicans were on the winning side of the Civil War the first time around. There is no need to join the losing side after the fact.
 
EpicBeardedMan said:
Do you have sources that say everyone at the free speech rally was a "nazi" or are you just lumping anyone on the right a nazi like ive been saying this whole time is what libs do these days.

Also, it wasnt just nazis that were upset about the statues it was the citizens of the city as weve now seen from news sources thay arent mainstream fake news.

You cant pick and choose who has freedom of speech, lol. Either everyone has it or its not free speech. Just because youre biased against conservatives doesnt give you the right to label everyone as a Nazi and shut down their freedome to speak. Im going to start grouping the Left into Fascists and see how people like that, since you guys are so fond of taking away peoples right to free speech unless they agree with your viewpoints. Itll be a fun game, "Nazis" vs "Fascists".

thanks for the Fascist definition, the irony of you posting that while lumping people into the Nazi category who dont meet the definition of Nazi isnt lost on me either ;)

Don't start putting words into my mouth.

To start with my political leanings are right of centre. I am and continue to be a Conservative and have in my past favored the Republican Party until they became enthralled with catering to a what I call Christian extremists. I'm still not fond of Democrats.

My initial post was in response to your post equating counterprotestors against Neo-Nazis and white supremacists and the KKK as fascists themselves. That was just a silly statement on your part hence the lesson on the definition on fascism which apparently you still haven't read well enough.

Of course I don't have sources that say everyone attending the "Free Speech Rally" was a Nazi. I never said that they were. What I was saying was that people who attended a counterdemonstration (any counterdemonstration) against Neo-Nazis (and for that matter the KKK and white supremacists) also have a right to freedom of speech. I'll try to put this in simple terms for you. I agree that I don't choose who has freedom of speech and that's exactly my point; neither do you. So stop calling counterprotestors fascists just because they show up to exercise their freedom of speech.

As to why the counterprotestors showed up in Boston. My understanding is that this rally was organized by John Medlar, a  23 year-old student at Framingham Univercity and "Boston Free Speech" who denied any affiliation to white supremacists but nonetheless, amongst others, had scheduled as speakers August Invictus who was an organizer of the Charlottesville rally (and has been reported a holocaust denier and someone who told people at Charlottesville to arm themselves for the coming civil war) and Gavin McGinnis head of the Proud Boys. Medlar's permit application stated that they expected 1,000 participants to the rally. Further the KKK announced that they too would attend the rally. Ultimately those people were uninvited or withdrew from showing up but their intended presence was well known throughout Boston in the days leading up to the rally and therefore drew the counterprotestors.  See here for many of the articles on the subject: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/boston-rally_us_59963564e4b0e8cc855cbb42

Have a good one.

[cheers]
 
Before antifa types lucked in and Neo Nazis put them in a lesser of two evils lime light they were attacking Trump supporters, people they felt like calling Neo Nazis and anyone they decided to paint a target on.  I'm willing to bet antifa have assaulted more people of colour from the right than Neo Nazis have in the last year.



[quote author=milnews.ca]
  Also, antifa/black bloc are not angels in this respect, either, but I haven't seen too much out there about the anarchists coming out w/long arms & tac vests full o' ammo.[/size] [/QUOTE]

Fair points. I seen someone those rediclous militia pictures (our gun porn thread is much more classy!)

Some thoughts on the guns. For so many guns floating around there seems to be very few shootings. The only one I can think of of late was the antifa guy shooting the senetor.  Maybe all those guns present serves to de-escalate or prevent some protests from being too bloody?

WRT the guy who killed the woman with the car I think he's going to be found guilty regardless of guilt. If he's found not guilty the left will burn cities down.
On the bright side statues might burn too :)
 
milnews.ca said:
I haven't seen too much out there about the anarchists coming out w/long arms & tac vests full o' ammo.

Antifa have, so far in prior engagements, come out masked and more heavily armed - rocks, M88 fireworks, which can cause injury, clubs, bike locks, wine bottles, urine, and faeces - than those on the right, and have been far more willing to use violence and destroy/damage property.

And the small number of armed civilians at Charlottesville weren't rally participants:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/militiamen-came-to-charlottesville-as-neutral-first-amendment-protectors-commander-says/2017/08/13/d3928794-8055-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?utm_term=.dbf47734ad62

Militiamen came to Charlottesville as neutral First Amendment protectors, commander says

Tensions rise as white nationalists hold a rally in Charlottesville, Va.

By Paul Duggan August 13 

Of the harrowing images televised nationwide from Saturday’s white nationalist demonstration in Charlottesville, one of the more chilling sights, amid hours of raging hatred and mayhem, was of camo-clad militiamen on the streets, girded for combat in tactical vests and toting military-style semiautomatic rifles.

Photos and video of the heavily armed cadre - a relatively small force commanded by a 45-year-old machinist and long-ago Navy veteran from western Pennsylvania - spread rapidly on social media, raising fears the clash of hundreds of neo-Nazis and counterprotesters might end in a bloodbath.

The show of strength was about “allegiance . . . to the Constitution,” particularly the First Amendment, said Christian Yingling, leader of the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia. He said he and his troops “convoyed in” to Charlottesville early Saturday to defend free speech by maintaining civic order so everyone present could voice an opinion, regardless of their views.

The fact that no shots were fired, Yingling said, was a testament “to the discipline of the 32 brave souls serving under me during this particular operation.” In a telephone interview Sunday, he sought to dispel “the absurd idea in the public’s mind” that his group of “patriots” was allied with or sympathetic to the white nationalists.

Many militia units in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast have “mutual defense agreements,” Yingling said. Because he has overseen several militia responses at contentious gatherings in recent months - helping “keep the peace” at right-wing public events in Boston; in Gettysburg and Harrisburg, Pa.; and at an April 29 rally in Harrisburg for President Trump - Yingling said the commander of a Virginia militia asked him to organize and take “tactical command” of the Charlottesville operation.

State of emergency declared after white nationalists gathering in Charlottesville

“He had never handled anything like this,” Yingling said. “And given the volatility of the event, it was not a good place to start.”

When his group arrived in Charlottesville, “we put our own beliefs off to the side,” Yingling said. “Not one of my people said a word. They were given specific orders to remain quiet the entire time we were there. . . . Our mission was to help people exercise their First Amendment rights without being physically assaulted.”

He added: “It was a resounding success until we were just so drastically outnumbered that we couldn’t stop the craziness. It was nothing short of horrifying.”

In the interview and in a Facebook Live monologue Sunday, Yingling detailed why the militia members participated, how he went about organizing their appearance, and how his group was received - which he said was not with much welcome.

“Jacka---s,” was how he described both sides, meaning the white nationalists, who billed the gathering as Unite the Right, and the counterprotesters, many marching under the banner of Antifa, for “anti-fascist.” Yingling also criticized police, saying that officers were poorly prepared for the violence and not assertive enough in combating it and that they should have enlisted the militiamen to help prevent the mayhem.

Instead, about five hours after Yingling and his platoon arrived at 7:30 a.m., they were ordered by police to leave the area, he said. By 1:42 p.m. - when a man reputed to be a neo-Nazi adherent allegedly drove his car intentionally through a crowded pedestrian mall and into a sedan, killing a 32-year-old woman and injuring 19 others - the militiamen were far from Charlottesville, headed back to their encampment 50 miles northeast of the city, Yingling said.

He said several of his troops were battered and bloodied, having been attacked by people on both sides of the demonstration, yet they did not retaliate.

He said he does not know the suspect in the car killing, James Alex Fields, 20, of Ohio, or any of the white nationalists involved in Saturday’s demonstration.

Virginia’s secretary of public safety, Brian Moran, rejected the assertion that police were ill-equipped to handle Saturday’s unrest. “To say we were unprepared or inexperienced is absolutely wrong,” Moran declared Sunday, adding, “We unequivocally acted at the right time and with the appropriate response.”

He said: “The fighting in the street was sporadic. But soon after it started, we began to have conversations about when to go in. The concern was that the fighting was in the middle of the crowd and that if we went in there, we would lose formation, lose contact. We would be putting the public and law enforcement in jeopardy.”

Saturday marked the first time in 28 years the Virginia National Guard was used to help quell a civil disturbance. “The militia showed up with long rifles, and we were concerned about that in the mix,” Moran said. “They seemed like they weren’t there to cause trouble, but it was a concern to have rifles of that kind in that environment.”

Authorities also were worried that Yingling - who was carrying a Sig Sauer AR-556 semiautomatic weapon - and his troops would be mistaken for National Guard members by the public, Moran said.

Yingling called the weapons “one hell of a visual deterrent” to would-be attackers from either side. Although the weapons’ magazines were fully loaded, he said, the day’s standard procedure “was that anyone who was carrying a long gun was not to have a round in the chamber. Now, our sidearms are generally chambered and ready to go.”

The Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia is one of several Light Foot Militia outfits in states nationwide. In addition to having overall command of units in Pennsylvania, Yingling said, he is the leader of his home unit, the Light Foot Militia Laurel Highlands Ghost Company, based near his home in New Derry, Pa., about 50 miles east of Pittsburgh. The Ghost Company has about a dozen members, he said.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit watchdog group that monitors extremist organizations, classifies 276 militias in the country as “antigovernment groups,” meaning they generally “define themselves as opposed to the ‘New World Order,’ engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines.”

The Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia is on the list, as are Light Foot Militia units in South Carolina, Utah, Wisconsin, Idaho, Nevada and Oregon. But the SPLC points out that inclusion on its list “does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activity, or are racist.”

Yingling said he abhors racism and that his company, which usually trains in the woods once or twice a month, is open to prospective members “of all races and creeds,” although its active roster is entirely white.

A Navy veteran of Operation Desert Storm, Yingling said he was an aviation machinist’s mate for three years before leaving the service in 1993 as a petty officer third class, meaning he was four rungs up the enlisted ranks.

“I joined the military to avoid the addictive lifestyle of my parents,” he wrote in a Facebook post. “I was raised in a VERY dysfunctional, abusive home. The military gave me the structure I needed.” After his discharge, however, “I quickly fell right into the lifestyle I had known all my life with my parents. I quit going to church, I started using drugs and alcohol, heavily becoming addicted to both. It started a . . . downward spiral which led to an eventual suicide attempt.”

Then, in 2008, President Barack Obama was elected. Yingling said he was drawn then to right-wing, anti-government extremism.

“I left my old addictive lifestyle behind and traded it for the lifestyle of a patriot,” he wrote. “I had found my calling” as a militiaman. “I founded The Westmoreland County Militia, Regulators 1st Battalion with two fellow patriots.” He later left the unit and formed the Laurel Highlands Ghost Company.

“No, I don’t think the government, as a whole, is out to get us,” he said in the interview, but “a lot of people in society are self-absorbed. They don’t get involved with the Constitution and defending the freedoms that it gives us. We need to defend those freedoms - for everyone, on all sides of the political debate - or eventually we’ll lose them.”

About a month ago, when he learned the Unite the Right event was being planned, Yingling said, “I, like most militia commanders, did not want to touch it with a 10-foot pole” for fear of being wrongly perceived as an ally of white supremacists. But after talking it over with a fellow Light Foot commander, in Upstate New York, he decided he had a duty to defend the right of free speech on the streets of Charlottesville.

Through Facebook and various militia chat rooms, he said, he recruited militia members from various East Coast units and organized a rendezvous Friday night at a farm in Unionville, Va. He said he was angered and embarrassed that only 32 people showed up. Many others, he said, were afraid of being publicly branded as racists.

“We knew what we were walking into,” he said on Facebook Live. “We knew what the results were going to be. And yet we walked in anyway. We weren’t afraid. And we didn’t give a good damn about our image or about what anybody thought about us. And I still don’t.”

Edited to add URL for article above, plus:

https://qz.com/1053604/who-were-the-armed-camouflaged-men-in-charlottesville-who-have-nothing-to-do-with-the-military/

Local law enforcement came under fire for its lackluster response to the violence. According to reporters from ProPublica, militia members from New York state played a more active role in breaking up altercations than the police. Even Virginia’s governor Terry McAuliffe, who defended the official response, told The New York Times (paywall) that the men “had better equipment than our state police.”
 
http://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/12620460-74/new-derry-man-who-led-militia-in-charlottesville-clash-condemns-white-supremacists

New Derry man who led militia in Charlottesville clash condemns white supremacists

Matthew Santoni  | Monday, Aug. 14, 2017, 5:24 p.m.

The New Derry-based leader of a Pennsylvania anti-government militia group said armed militia members tried to be "neutral peacekeepers" at Saturday's violent clash in Charlottesville, Va., personally condemning the white supremacists who came looking to fight and the police who failed to prevent it.

In a Facebook Live video posted Sunday morning, Christian Yingling of the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia said about 32 militia members who arrived at Emancipation Park early Saturday were unaffiliated with the white supremacists holding a "Unite the Right" rally there. The militia had intended to prevent clashes between the supremacists and counter-protesters who came to oppose them, he said.
They were ultimately outnumbered and withdrew hours before an Ohio man drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing one.

"If you call yourselves militia, you have to support the Constitution. ... They have to be willing to put yourself in harm's way to see that people who they otherwise couldn't stand have the right to say what they have to say," Yingling said in the 43-minute-long "after action report" he posted to his Facebook page. "On a very minor level, we share beliefs with both sides."

He did not respond to requests for comment Monday.

In his video, Yingling said militia members from Pennsylvania, New York and elsewhere lined up along both sides of the street fronting the park, anticipating that they would break up any conflicts before they escalated into violence.

Yingling called rally organizer Jason Kessler, a Charlottesville white nationalist, a "piece of (excrement)" and a "dirtbag" for bringing in hate groups loaded for a fight, with the ostensible goal of protesting the proposed removal of the park's statue of Robert E. Lee. Groups on both sides behaved like "jackasses," he said.

"This rally had nothing to do with uniting the right wing," Yingling said in the video. "They weren't there to support Southern heritage or protest a statue; they were there to fight."

In a separate video, George Curbelo, Yingling's "second in command" Saturday, reiterated that the militia wasn't there to support the rally.
"The New York Light Foot, the Pennsylvania Light Foot and all the other militias that were there... do not condone, support or in any other way align ourselves with white supremacy," Curbelo said.

For five hours, Yingling said, his group tried to hold apart thousands of protesters and counter-protesters, all of whom assaulted the militia and each other with fists, feet, clubs, shields, irritant spray, bottles and paint. He said they stopped belligerents on both sides where they could and pulled the injured from the fray and delivered them to acting "medics," but he denied reports that militia members hit back or struck anyone in an effort to break up fights.

The militia left when state and city police, who had otherwise been staying outside the conflict, said they were shutting down the park.
Yingling said they were miles away by the time accused white supremacist James Alex Fields Jr., 20, drove a Dodge Charger into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing 32-year-old Heather Heyer. A few hours after that, two Virginia state troopers died when the helicopter they were flying in support of the Charlottesville operation crashed.

Yingling said police failed to act as violence escalated at the park, but in a news conference Monday , Charlottesville Police Chief Al Thomas said officers had to readjust their plans and change into tactical gear as protesters flooded into the park from all directions, rather than just the one street organizers had agreed to.

Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said the militia weren't the only ones armed at the rally, given that Virginia is an open-carry state.

"There were numerous individuals on all sides armed with handguns and long guns," she said.

"We were not intimidated by their power, but it was prudent to make sure the officers were equipped," Thomas said at his news conference.

Yingling condemned rally organizers and said he knew little of the participating white supremacist organizations, "because I don't subscribe to any of their beliefs." But many in the media and in the protests assumed they were affiliated with or specifically protecting the white supremacists. Several militia members wore patches combining the "Three percenter" militia symbol with American and Confederate flags.

The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies the Pennsylvania Light Foot among 276 militias and 998 "active extreme antigovernment groups" as of 2015, though it noted that inclusion in their list "does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist."

Members of the Pennsylvania militia also were present at a Harrisburg "anti-Sharia rally" in June attended by white supremacist organizations, but Yingling said they were there as non-partisan security officers.

Matthew Santoni is a Tribune-Review staff writer. Reach him at 724 836 6660, msantoni@tribweb.com or on Twitter @msantoni.
 
"Steyn Blasts Chelsea Clinton: 'If the Confederacy is 'Lucifer', Its Church is the Dem Party'":
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/18/mark-steyn-charlottesville-chelsea-clinton-robert-byrd-confederate-democrats-white
 
'Go home and never come back' — Virginia's governor had a powerful message for white supremacists
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40914333/virginia-governor-tells-white-supremacists-go-home

I don't believe they are welcome anywhere.

Loachman said:
"Steyn Blasts Chelsea Clinton: 'If the Confederacy is 'Lucifer', Its Church is the Dem Party'":
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/18/mark-steyn-charlottesville-chelsea-clinton-robert-byrd-confederate-democrats-white

Did past administrations keep ranting nine months after the election?

I don't recall Obama, Bush, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr. etc... or any of the others ever going on like this one does about Hillary Clinton or President Obama.

Will they ever get over the fact that she beat him by 3 million votes?

How African-Americans voted,

"Clinton held an 80-point advantage among blacks (88% to 8%) compared with Obama’s 87-point edge four years ago (93% to 6%). In 2008, Obama had a 91-point advantage among blacks."
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

Nothing I have seen since Charlottesville indicates to me that the current president is any more popular with African-American voters now than he was back in Nov. 2016.



 
She didn't beat anyone. She lost the electoral college which is the entire basis of the presidency. Any reference to popular vote is a red herring.

Did past election losers try desperately to nullify the results like the Democrats are doing? The constant failed attempts to impeach are as crazy as the Obama birthers, but fortunately the brother group was a small minority of Republicans. Impeach Trump is the koolaid the entire democratic party has drunk, and it's going to tear them apart.
 
She is a dangerous nutbar. I watched a fair amount about her following the Berkeley riots.

She should most definitely not be teaching children.
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450626/charlottesville-donald-trump-alt-right-blame-both-sides-wrong?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Week%20in%20Review%202017-08-20&utm_term=VDHM

On Charlottesville, Trump, and Anti-Americanism

by Andrew C. McCarthy August 19, 2017 4:00 AM

The president made some idiotic remarks, but he knows something the elites overlook.

Susan Rosenberg was a terrorist in the early 1980s. Like her Weathermen comrades, she would have killed many people had she been a more competent terrorist. She was a fugitive plotting more bombings when she and a co-conspirator were captured in New Jersey, armed to the gills and toting over 700 pounds of dynamite. At her sentencing, she proclaimed, "Long live the armed struggle" against "U.S. imperialism." Her only regret was that she hadn't shot it out with the police who arrested her. A federal judge sentenced her to 58 years' imprisonment.

I know her story well because, when she claimed she was being denied parole unlawfully, I spent over a year as the prosecutor arguing that the court should keep her in the slammer. Finally, the court ruled against her.

So . . . Bill Clinton sprang her.

Her commutation may have outraged most Americans, but it was celebrated by the nation's "progressive" opinion elites, the same ones who were cool with President Clinton's release of the FALN terrorists. Granted, Rosenberg didn't get the hero's welcome at New York City's Puerto Rican Day parade received by Oscar Lopez Rivera - the FALN terrorist released by President Obama. The teaching gig the Left arranged for her wasn't quite as prestigious and long-lived as the ones her fellow Weathermen - and Obama pals - Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn fell into. She'll never be a t-shirt icon, like Che Guevara or Tupac Shakur. The campaign to pretend she was innocent won't rival the Alger Hiss fairy tale. There will probably be no statue of her, much less a performing-arts center like the one in Princeton named for Paul Robeson.

But she hates America, so she'll be remembered fondly in the places where the cultural tune is called. Her books - such as An American Radical: A Political Prisoner in My Own Country - will continue to be taken oh so seriously. Her Wikipedia entry does not describe her as a terrorist; it says Susan Rosenberg is a "radical political activist, author and advocate for social justice."

That's why you got Trump.

It has nothing to do with statues of the dead. It is about the status of the living.

You're upset over President Trump's idiotic remarks this week? Oh, right, I need to specify. Not the crackpot bit about General Pershing mass-murdering Muslim prisoners in the Philippines (well explained by David French, here). I mean the one about the "very fine people" in Charlottesville - the supposed "many" who joined neo-Nazis, KKK die-hards, and other white supremacists in a demonstration that could not have been more overtly racist and despicable.

Yeah, I'm upset about that, too.

That doesn't mean I didn't notice the anti-fa thugs were out there. It doesn't mean I don't see the hard Left's seditionist shock troops, at war with the country, much like the Weathermen, the Panthers, and the Black Liberation Army back in the day. As we've seen many times now (and will, alas, see many times more), the radical Left doesn't need tiki-torch twits to spur them to arson and mayhem.

This time, though, in Charlottesville, the white supremacists were the instigators. They caused it. They orchestrated this disgusting event, they came ready for the violence they knew they were provoking, and one of them committed a murder.

If the roles were reversed, we wouldn't want to hear a bunch of imbecilic "there's blame on both sides" moral equivalence. We'd want the most culpable bunch called out and condemned, by name - and without any irrational hedging about phantom "very fine people" who confederate with sociopaths on the latter's terms.

Making that distinction does not mean you can't or shouldn't call out anti-fa, too. But a young woman died here. And she didn't die because, fully aware she was courting danger, she got herself into a scrap. She was standing where she had a right to be standing, expressing what she had a right to express, when she was murdered by a depraved racist who plowed a car into her and other human beings. Anyone commenting on this ghastly event ought to be able to prioritize his righteous rage. Especially if that anyone happens to be the president of the United States.

You have good reason to be upset that this president couldn't meet that modest standard. If you're on the political right, moreover, you may be even more upset by a poll that says two-thirds of Republicans actually approve of Trump's response. They believe he ascribed blame accurately. (I am on "the political right", and am not upset whatsoever - quite the contrary. I am glad that so many others can acknowledge the violent character of Antifa thugs, and that both sides were to blame for the violence. I am increasingly adding blame to the police as well, as I see more, for failure to keep the two violent groups apart, and possibly for actually bringing them together.)

Well, he didn't. Does that make the poll result irrational?

I don't think so. It is not that two-thirds of the Right really think "very fine people" make common cause with the KKK. And it's not that they really see two sides equally at fault. It is that, regardless of comparative fault, they know there were two sides out there. And they know the media has tried to obscure that fact. The poll is less indicative of settled belief than of gut reaction.

People are fed up. If you dare notice the radical Left, you are not an observer of objective fact, you are a neo-Nazi sympathizer. If you dare notice that many of the "peaceful protesters" were swinging batons and spraying chemicals, you need a re-education course in "unconscious racism."

News about a radical leftist's attempted mass murder of Republican House members that left Representative Steve Scalise on the brink of death faded quickly away - just a few days' Kumbaya coverage along the lines of "Shaken Democrats joined Republicans in expressing outrage, etc., etc." But on Thursday in Barcelona, when Muslim terrorists reverted to the car jihad they have been using quite notoriously for years, the media speculated that the terrorist killing of 13 people by careening a van along a crowded street might just be a Charlottesville "copycat" attack. You get it: Islamic terrorists are just like the Klan, are just like bourgeois Americans in the Age of Trump. Or, as they say in Virginia, "Allahu akbar, y'all."

Don't be sidetracked by the trendy debate over statues. Statuary is complicated. It is erected as much to signal the sentiments of the commissioners as to honor noteworthy lives. And it is built to last, so it stands even when sentiments change.

A great deal of Confederate iconography was not commissioned in remembrance of soldierly valor or mawkish depiction of genteel Dixie. It was crafted in defiant 20th-century resistance to the extension of equal rights, dignity, and opportunity to black people. Trump's ill-informed meanderings about "culture" aside, many people taking offense at the statues have every reason to feel offended because, taken all in all, the reasons why they stand are at least as offensive as the images they convey.

Maybe if we grasp that, instead of getting hysterical over it, we can see why the loss of Robert E. Lee shouldn't threaten Thomas Jefferson. The disappearance of an honorable soldier in a dishonorable cause is not a slippery-slope rationale for casting out the founder who grafted onto America's soul the conceit that we are all created equal - a solemn declaration of far more enduring consequence than its author's flaws. Pegging it at 4,500 probably exaggerates the number of Saxon pagans beheaded by Charles the Great at Verden, but to call the episode an atrocity is no exaggeration. Nor, however, has Charlemagne's ruthlessness in battle been adjudged reason to remove his famous statue from the cathedral entrance at Notre Dame de Paris. Without him, there might have been no Europe, no Western culture as we know it, no development of the university, no magnificent cathedrals still standing.

It is a matter of perspective, of understanding changing times and our flawed nature. We can demand that our history not be erased and still realize that some of it is better recounted in book form than in stone or alloy. It should be left to the people most affected by evocative statuary to make that call.

What bothers many ordinary Americans is that there is far more uproar over a statue of Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville than over one of Vladimir Lenin in Seattle. What bothers us is that elite opinion's determination to conceal the presence of anti-fa at last weekend's bloody debacle - the better to smear the American Right with the alt-right - is just phase one. Inevitably, phases two and three will follow: The presence of leftist radicals is grudgingly admitted but rationalized as a necessary defense against monstrous evil; then, in time, their presence is venerated as exemplary courage against a monstrously evil society.

Donald Trump's buffoonery is self-defeating, but there is shrewdness beneath it. He grasps, in a way the people who cover him don't seem to, that much of the country is sick of being told the country sucks. There are racists and they should be condemned without equivocation. But their existence in ever smaller numbers does not mean we are living in AmeriKKKa, or that there is high virtue in anti-Americanism.

- Andrew C. McCarthy is a senior fellow at National Review Institute and a contributing editor of National Review.
 
PuckChaser said:
The constant failed attempts to impeach are as crazy as the Obama birthers, but fortunately the brother group was a small minority of Republicans.

The President was a Birther.

Are you referring to this?

kkwd said:
"New Bill Would Require Donald Trump To Undergo Mental Health Evaluation"

As long as the Republicans are in the majority, how likely is it that a Republican president would be forced to submit to an involuntary psychiatric assessment?

If he refuses to release his tax returns, how likely is it that he will allow a check-up with a brain specialist?
 
mariomike said:
You mean this?
"New Bill Would Require Donald Trump To Undergo Mental Health Evaluation"

As long as the Republicans are in the majority, how likely is it that a Republican president would be forced to submit to an involuntary psychiatric assessment?

How many bills are written to just affect one specific person? Sounds like a case of somebody trying to take away his civil rights. And it's just silly.
 
kkwd said:
How many bills are written to just affect one specific person? . . .

Resolutions dealing with "one specific person" seem to be very common.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/sres243/text
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/s1760/text
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/s1019/text
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/s1120/text/is
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/s559/text
or scroll down for more and more
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?congress=115#similar_to=S.1760%2F115
 
Loachman said:
Antifa have, so far in prior engagements, come out masked and more heavily armed - rocks, M88 fireworks, which can cause injury, clubs, bike locks, wine bottles, urine, and faeces - than those on the right, and have been far more willing to use violence and destroy/damage property.
You're right - I should have been more specific.  I don't deny antifa-ists bring stuff to cause trouble to rallies (I've included links upthread to sites encouraging to do more of that), but I haven't seen stats re:  this stuff.
Loachman said:
http://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/12620460-74/new-derry-man-who-led-militia-in-charlottesville-clash-condemns-white-supremacists

New Derry man who led militia in Charlottesville clash condemns white supremacists

Matthew Santoni  | Monday, Aug. 14, 2017, 5:24 p.m.

The New Derry-based leader of a Pennsylvania anti-government militia group said armed militia members tried to be "neutral peacekeepers" at Saturday's violent clash in Charlottesville, Va., personally condemning the white supremacists who came looking to fight and the police who failed to prevent it ...
Loachman said:
And the small number of armed civilians at Charlottesville weren't rally participants:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/militiamen-came-to-charlottesville-as-neutral-first-amendment-protectors-commander-says/2017/08/13/d3928794-8055-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?utm_term=.dbf47734ad62

Militiamen came to Charlottesville as neutral First Amendment protectors, commander says ...
And I would believe they were "neutral" more if some of them weren't wearing Confederate flags/variations on that theme, which suggests to me less-than-complete impartiality. 

And if we say/believe, "but not ALL of the militiamen wore Confederate flags," then we have to concede that not ALL the counterprotesters were antifa/anarchists/rabble rousers.
 

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Loachman said:
She is a dangerous nutbar. I watched a fair amount about her following the Berkeley riots.

She should most definitely not be teaching children.

She is scheduled to teach at her Berkeley middle school when the students return later this month and cannot be legally fired unless she is convicted of a felony , according to KPIX TV.

I bet if she was a Trump supporter she'd be fired  pretty damn fast. Berkley is quite the  place.
 
[quote author=milnews.ca] And I would believe they were "neutral" more if some of them weren't wearing Confederate flags/variations on that theme, which suggests to me less-than-complete impartiality. 


[/quote]

I seen that, you're right. The same dude though  is also wearing an American flag with the blue line through it. Looks like one of those blue lives matter flags? 


I think one of the issues may be we see a confederate flag as automatic racism or white supremacy (media helps perpetrate that). I think it means different things to people in the south.



 
Jarnhamar said:
I seen that, you're right. The same dude though  is also wearing an American flag with the blue line through it. Looks like one of those blue lives matter flags? 

I think one of the issues may be we see a confederate flag as automatic racism or white supremacy (media helps perpetrate that). I think it means different things to people in the south.

Exactly, some Native folks think the same way about the Canadian flag,... should you tear it off your uniform now???
 
milnews.ca said:
we have to concede that not ALL the counterprotesters were antifa/anarchists/rabble rousers.

The vast bulk of the counter-protesters were none of the above. I have no problem with them whatsoever, although I believe that many of them were more likely there for the party atmosphere than out of any real concerns. I met a guy years ago who used to go to all of the Greenham Common anti-nuke protests because the men there were outnumbered by women and it was the easiest way he'd found to get laid.

Those in the street where the vehicular homicide took place showed no sign of violence or weaponry. I'm not going back through all of the video clips to verify complete absence of Antifa (now being referred to as "Anti First Amendment" because of their obsession with shutting down legitimate free speech), so there may have been one or two, but they usually stay in packs and none stood out to me.

Many of those who wish to see these statues weren't white supremacists either. Whether their history is fact or fantasy (the latter obviously being more attractive to them) is really irrelevant, it is what they have been taught to believe and they are not happy about attacks on that. Altering their feelings on the matter will take time and should not be pushed too far too soon, else more trouble will arise.

If the Democrats pushing this truly sought peace and reconciliation, they'd be more interested in gentle education and persuasion and would seek some form of compromise from those people. If reconciliation is their goal, however, they're concealing it remarkably well.

More and more, I am convinced that the prime motivator behind this is nothing more than Trump-bashing.
 
Loachman said:
More and more, I am convinced that the prime motivator behind this is nothing more than Trump-bashing.

I think you are right; unfortunately, Trump himself has pushed the conversation to the extremes.

I have talked with people quite a few times about the "reasons" Trump was elected, and they've been talked about here.  There is a large group of people in the US who feel they have been marginalized by the institution, and he spoke to them.

But he has brought the extremes to the center.  Every single time he posts on Twitter there is a barrage of responses, and almost all of them are from one end or the other; that is to be expected because the people that are most likely to respond are at the edges.  However, by conducting the business of government on a medium that plays to the extremes he has in effect mainstreamed the extremes and pushed the center out of the discussion.

I *think* what is needed is that the moderates take back the discussion; become involved.  I *hope* that a good part of the 30,000 at Boston (the number I *heard*) are exactly that, even if they are also there for the "party atmosphere."
 
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