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All things Charlottesville (merged)

Loachman said:
... If the Democrats pushing this truly sought peace and reconciliation, they'd be more interested in gentle education and persuasion and would seek some form of compromise from those people ...
Or more of those voices would have been louder & better heard over the more radical elements.
Jarnhamar said:
... I think one of the issues may be we see a confederate flag as automatic racism or white supremacy (media helps perpetrate that). I think it means different things to people in the south.
There is #MoreThanOneHistory, for sure, but as long as the Stars & Bars gets associated (not just by media, but by white nationalist/supremacist activists) as a "we won even if we lost" symbol - or more moderate elements on the right don't either ignore it or defend it as a cultural thing - the conflict never goes away.  I'm OK saying not all of these guys are likely racist, but sadly, groups can get judged by the worst idiots among them.

Along those lines, this ALSO goes for Democrats/leftists who won't denounce the tactics of the black bloc/anarchists who destroy property during protests ("diversity of tactics", my a**).  Just like the Stars&Bars-racism link, the leftist-violence/vandalism link will continue, too if the less-crazy elements don't shout out.

In both cases, as someone way smarter than me once said, #YouAreTheStandardYouWalkPast  Or ...
Baz said:
... I *think* what is needed is that the moderates take back the discussion ...
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Exactly, some Native folks think the same way about the Canadian flag,... should you tear it off your uniform now???
I can't say I remember (and I stand to be corrected) tooooooo many protests calling for getting rid of our current Canadian flag.
 
Loachman said:
I met a guy years ago who used to go to all of the Greenham Common anti-nuke protests because the men there were outnumbered by women and it was the easiest way he'd found to get laid.

Reminds me of something I read, "We hit a Bund rally at Hindenburg Park ( Los Angeles ) and gassed on the frauleins and beer."  :)
Perfidia by James Ellroy

"Swastika display at Hindenburg Park. Uniformed Bund members and family help stand up large swastika for rally."
http://digital-library.csun.edu/cdm/ref/collection/InOurOwnBackyard/id/124
In Our Own Backyard: Resisting Nazi Propaganda in Southern California, 1933-1945
LA Public Library

milnews.ca said:
In both cases, as someone way smarter than me once said, #YouAreTheStandardYouWalkPast 

Good point.

We will undermine the morale of the people of America. . .. Once there is confusion and after we have succeeded in undermining the faith of the American people in their own government, a new group will take over; this will be the German-American group, and we will help them to assume power.
-- Adolf Hitler, 1933
 

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milnews.ca said:
Or more of those voices would have been louder & better heard over the more radical elements.

It's not hard to be heard over the white supremacists. The media will not cover their points of view in any detail.

It's much, much harder for the reasonable right to be heard over the screams, cherry bombs, breaking of glass, throwing of trash cans, and fire engine and police sirens that are antifa's "voices".

The media suppress and distort Republican/Conservative viewpoints. President Trump's tweets are sometimes cringeworthy, but those, because of the actions of the media, are his only real means of getting his message out. If the media presented balanced views (Fox are around 50/50, but the rest are around 80-90% against President Trump), he may cut back a bit; in the meantime, the best defence is offence. They mainly upset his opponents, and his supporters seem to be either supportive or, at worst, do not mind, so I don't think that they are hurting him - probably the opposite.
 
Loachman said:
The media suppress and distort Republican/Conservative viewpoints. President Trump's tweets are sometimes cringeworthy, but those, because of the actions of the media, are his only real means of getting his message out. If the media presented balanced views (Fox are around 50/50, but the rest are around 80-90% against President Trump), he may cut back a bit; in the meantime, the best defence is offence. They mainly upset his opponents, and his supporters seem to be either supportive or, at worst, do not mind, so I don't think that they are hurting him - probably the opposite.

I watched Morning Joe on MSNBC the day after the Barcelona attack last week. They spent 5 minutes mentioning the attack and then the next 55 minutes insulting Trump. Joe even came up with the gem that Trump embraced white supremacy. I watch that show and some of Maddow and O'Donnell. It is all just doom and gloom over there. You can see some of the worst moments of that network on YouTube. After all, it is the place Brian Williams went to get punished and they gave him a show at 11 on weeknights.
 
Loachman said:
Let It Be

by Kevin D. Williamson August 17, 2017 4:00 AM

Southerners - and some conservative sentimentalists - tell themselves two convenient lies about the Civil War. One is that the Confederate cause was an honorable one, the other is that the war wasn't really about slavery. Neither of those stands up to very much scrutiny, and the former is mostly false in no small part because the latter is almost entirely false.

6 % of the population of the Confederacy owned slaves.  That would be 30% of families owning slaves.  70% of Southern families did not own slaves.  94% of Southerners in 1860 didn't own slaves.  I suspect the political situation might have had more to do with economics than people like to believe.  Also the 6% of slave owners are all dead.  There are no guilty people left.
 
Also the --% of people who did "harm" to Canada's Indigenous people are all dead.  There are no guilty people left.

Yet we will be living with this "you owe us" forever, and ever
 
Rifleman62 said:
Yet we will be living with this "you owe us" forever, and ever

There are other threads to discuss your views on that. Keep this about the protest in Charlottesville.
 
Rocky Mountains said:
6 % of the population of the Confederacy owned slaves.  That would be 30% of families owning slaves.  70% of Southern families did not own slaves.  94% of Southerners in 1860 didn't own slaves.  I suspect the political situation might have had more to do with economics than people like to believe.  Also the 6% of slave owners are all dead.  There are no guilty people left.

But that 6% was the movers and shakers of the Southern society. They had enormous political, economic and social influence over the entire Southern population. Once that element decided that the developing sentiment within the US government was anti-expansion of slavery, they knew that their days were numbered and that abolition would soon follow.

Virtually the entire US military at the time was formed by state militias (with a small federal element) and once the mostly slave holding leadership of the Southern states elected to secede then their non slave owning militiamen were bound to follow.

Don't ever underestimate the role that propaganda (jingoism if you will) played in rallying the "true men" to their colours. The argument was "States Rights" which sold well to the population, but the only real state right that mattered to the Southern leadership was the right to own slaves because they believed (undoubtedly rightly) that much of their agrarian economy/wealth would collapse without it.

:cheers:
 
Rocky Mountains said:
... I suspect the political situation might have had more to do with economics than people like to believe ...
Yes, the economics of the prospect of losing an unpaid labour pool, so economics go hand-in-hand with slavery.
kkwd said:
I watched Morning Joe on MSNBC the day after the Barcelona attack last week. They spent 5 minutes mentioning the attack and then the next 55 minutes insulting Trump ...
I listened to Sean Hannity the other day, and he spent more than an hour blaming & personally attacking/mocking Mitch McConnell & Democrats for not doing their job on health care, and zero on recent terrorist attacks.  #NatureOfTheBeast
Loachman said:
... It's much, much harder for the reasonable right to be heard over the screams, cherry bombs, breaking of glass, throwing of trash cans, and fire engine and police sirens that are antifa's "voices" ...
If it's any comfort, we're not hearing much from the reasonable left on that, either ...
Rocky Mountains said:
... the 6% of slave owners are all dead.  There are no guilty people left.
</sarcasm>Yeah, how some whites view/treat Blacks in the U.S. is aaaaalll sorted out now that the last slave owner is dead.</sarcasm>
 
milnews.ca said:
...I listened to Sean Hannity the other day, and he spent more than an hour blaming & personally attacking/mocking Mitch McConnell & Democrats for not doing their job on health care, and zero on recent terrorist attacks...

How in the name of all that's holy can you stomach watching more than 30 seconds of Hannity?  ;D

:cheers:
 
FJAG said:
How in the name of all that's holy can you stomach watching more than 30 seconds of Hannity?  ;D
I'm actually happy to listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, et. al. podcasts to see what's hot on that side of the spectrum.
 
FJAG said:
How in the name of all that's holy can you stomach watching more than 30 seconds of Hannity?  ;D

:cheers:

With a bottle of Bourbon.
 
Maybe it's time to shut down all the politics threads that aren't clearly and directly linked to military and defence issues, in keeping with the site's focus?

Whenever 'discussion' turns to politics, the same name-calling ideologues -- on both sides* -- trot out the same arguments, the same tainted sources, the same insults... with the same result:
            :deadhorse:

:boring:


I'll now return to radio silence;  carry on.


---------
* It's interesting that virtually no one here publicly acknowledges their views as being right/left extremist.... it's always the other guy  who's the garbage-spouting whack-job.  [Hint: several of you on both sides of this 'debate' are coming across as knuckle-draggers -- some more buffoon-like than others.  You may wish to re-read your posts, with a mirror handy]
 
Journeyman said:
* It's interesting that virtually no one here publicly acknowledges their views as being right/left extremist.... it's always the other guy  who's the garbage-spouting whack-job.  [Hint: several of you on both sides of this 'debate' are coming across as knuckle-draggers -- some more buffoon-like than others.  You may wish to re-read your posts, with a mirror handy]

That describes me perfectly.
 
Journeyman said:
Maybe it's time to shut down all the politics threads that aren't clearly and directly linked to military and defence issues, in keeping with the site's focus?

Whenever 'discussion' turns to politics, the same name-calling ideologues -- on both sides* -- trot out the same arguments, the same tainted sources, the same insults... with the same result:
            :deadhorse:

:boring:

It's a fair assessment, and I recently considered shutting down the Politics board as well. However after convening a committee to discuss, and after five readings, I decided to open a second Politics board instead.

Very bureaucratic of me don't you think? :)

All kidding aside, the reason is simple... Now that Global Politics has a home of it's own, it can be contained. Don't want to participate - or even see - political threads? Easy, go to the Ignore section on your profile and check the 2 Political boards (see attached).

https://army.ca/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=ignoreboards

Topics from those boards won't even show up under recent activity for you. When the threads were under Radio Chatter and elsewhere, this type of individual control wasn't possible.

Yes, with a few clicks Army.ca can be [almost] completely apolitical.

Cheers
Mike
 

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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450462/antifa-alt-right-twin-cancers-eating-america?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202017-08-15&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives
Antifa and the Alt-Right, Growing in Opposition to One Another

by Ben Shapiro August 15, 2017 4:00 AM

There is a cancer in the body politic. We must cut it out, or be destroyed.

America has cancer.

On Saturday, a crowd of alt-right white supremacists, neo-confederates, and Nazi sympathizers marched in Charlottesville, Va.; they were confronted by a large group of protesters including members of the Marxist Antifa - a group that has time and again plunged volatile situations into violence, from Sacramento to Berkeley. There’s still no certain knowledge of who began the violence, but before long, the sides had broken into the sort of brutal scrum that used to characterize Weimer-era Germany. The two sides then carried the red banner and the swastika; so did the combatants on Saturday.

Then a Nazi-sympathizing alt-right 20-year-old Ohioan plowed his car into a crowd of protesters, killing one and injuring 19. The president of the United States promptly failed egregiously to condemn alt-right racism; instead, he opted for a milquetoast statement condemning “hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides.”

The Left leapt into action, declaring Trump’s statement utterly insufficient - which, of course, it was. But they then went further, declaring that Antifa was entirely innocent, despite Antifa’s launching into violence against pro-Trump marchers in Seattle over the weekend, as they have in Sacramento and Berkeley; berating New York Times journalist Sheryl Gay Stolberg for having the temerity to report that “the hard left seemed as hate-filled as the alt-right”; and suggesting that all conservatives were, at root, sympathizers with the Nazi-friendly alt-right.

And so here we stand: On the one side, a racist, identity-politics Left dedicated to the proposition that white people are innate beneficiaries of privilege and therefore must be excised from political power; on the other side, a reactionary, racist, identity-politics alt-right dedicated to the proposition that white people are innate victims of the social-justice class and therefore must regain political power through race-group solidarity.

None of this is new, of course. The Left has engaged in identity politics since the 1960s and engaged in heavy violence in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The white-supremacist movement has been with us since the founding of the republic. But both movements had been steadily shrinking until the last few years.

Now they’re growing. And they’re largely growing in opposition to one another. In fact, the growth of each side reinforces the growth of the other: The mainstream Left, convinced that the enemies of social-justice warriors are all alt-right Nazis, winks and nods at left-wing violence; the right, convinced that its SJW enemies are focused on racial polarization, embraces the alt-right as a form of resistance. Antifa becomes merely a radical adjunct to traditional Democratic-party politics; the alt-right becomes merely a useful tool for scurrilous Republican politicians and media figures.

Three factors led to this self-reinforcing growth loop.

First, increasing political polarization.

President Obama allowed the politics of racial fragmentation to fester on his watch; he repeatedly trafficked in broad generalities about American racism. Obama focused incessantly on the specter of white bigotry: “the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination in almost every institution of our lives,” embedded in our collective DNA. In response, an identity politics began creepily infusing the Right, with some white people embracing the mold cast upon them by the Left, creating a soft racial solidarity in backlash. This, of course, only strengthened the Left’s views of white privilege, which in turn strengthened the Right’s views of white victimhood.

The second factor was media malfeasance. Left-wing media - and “objective” media - saw an advantage in highlighting the antics of racists such as Richard Spencer and David Duke. Focusing on the racist alt-right allowed the media to draw the convenient conclusion that the alt-right was a growing force in Republican politics that had to be fought through support for Democrats. Meanwhile, the media cast a blind eye toward Antifa’s violent Weimar-style rioting in Sacramento and Berkeley.

In response, right-wing media began tut-tutting the alt-right as victims of Antifa and focused exclusively on Antifa as a nefarious force; they also responded to the Left’s disgusting attempts to lump in the Right with the alt-right by accepting a broader, false definition of the alt-right that could include traditional conservatism. They even bought into the shameful rebranding of the alt-right as defenders of Western civilization by shills such as Milo Yiannopoulos. That rebranding provided a convenient way of fighting the Left: “If the Left is calling us alt-right, that’s just because they hate that we stand for Western civilization!”

Finally, there’s political convenience. Obama’s repeated references to American racism weren’t his only sin. He repeatedly shunned opportunities to tamp down leftist racial radicalism. He made excuses for riots in Ferguson and Baltimore. He used the shooting of Dallas police officers by a radical black activist as an opportunity to lecture Americans about the evils of racist policing. He knew that his political support came in large measure from SJWs, and he cultivated them.

Meanwhile, on the right, Trump did the same. During the campaign, he ignored opportunity after opportunity to break with the alt-right. He refused to condemn the KKK on national television; (Note: He has done so many, many times over many years; I can repost the link with a compilation of video clips by Mark Dice if necessary) he refused to condemn his supporters’ sending anti-Semitic messages to journalists; he hired as his campaign strategist Steve Bannon, a man who openly celebrated turning Breitbart into a “platform for the alt-right.” Trump saw the alt-right as convenient allies, his meme-making “deplorable” friends on the Internet. They reveled in both his unwillingness to condemn them and his willingness to share their work.

And so here we are. The mainstream Left has been increasingly suckered into walking hand-in-hand with the SJWs while ignoring the most egregious activities of Antifa; the mainstream Right has been increasingly seduced into footsie with alt-right associates while feigning ignorance at the alt-right itself.

That’s why Charlottesville matters: not only because we saw destruction and terror, but because if all Americans of good conscience won’t do some soul-searching and move to excise the evil in their midst, that evil will metastasize. There is a cancer in the body politic. We must cut it out, or be destroyed.

 
Semi-related, as the focus is more on on BLM:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450513/black-lives-matter-why-are-corporate-execs-contributing?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202017-08-16&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives

Where Is the Corporate Disavowal of Black Lives Matter?

by Michelle Malkin August 16, 2017 12:00 AM

Business execs have been coughing up untold hundreds of millions of dollars to BLM and related causes.

Liberal business executives are leaping like lemmings from President Donald Trump’s manufacturing advisory council. Good riddance.

These silly-string-spined CEOs have sided with social-justice agitators, Beltway media enablers, and Democratic resistance knuckleheads who believe Trump was wrong to condemn violence and hatred on all sides of the political spectrum. Never mind that of the four people arrested after the violent outbreak in Charlottesville, Va., this weekend, two were identified with the white-nationalist movement and the other two were left-wing “antifa” counterprotesters.

One of those radical leftists is the man identified as having reportedly punched a female reporter for the D.C.-based newspaper The Hill. But since that doesn’t fit the national media narrative of journalists’ allegedly being victimized by right-wing incitements to violence, mum’s the word from corporate media executives and the rest of the preening CEOs.

Merck CEO Kenneth C. Frazier claimed he stepped down from the Trump business panel because he felt “a responsibility to take a stand against intolerance and extremism.” But Frazier, who served on President Obama’s Export Council, felt no equivalent responsibility to take a stand against intolerance and extremism when the White House invited leaders from the violence-inciting Black Lives Matter movement for a forum on policing in July 2016.

The invitation was a grievous affront to law-enforcement officers and their families across the country outraged at the deadly ambushes committed against cops in Dallas and Baton Rouge that summer, along with several other forgotten cop-killings fueled by BLM-linked hate and vengeance. Who remembers the slaying of Kentucky state trooper Joseph Ponder by BLM marcher and “Hands up, don’t shoot” slogan-spreader Joseph Thomas Johnson-Shanks in September 2015? At least eleven police have been shot dead and at least nine more wounded by BLM protesters, activists, and/or supporters to date.

One of the surviving policemen in the Baton Rouge massacre filed suit last month against BLM and laid out the case against its leaders, who “not only, incited the violence against police in retaliation for the death of black men shot by police, but also did nothing to dissuade the ongoing violence and injury to police. In fact, they justified the violence as necessary to the movement and war.”

The permanently disabled cop’s lawsuit recounts escalating riots, arson, and plundering after the police-involved deaths of Michael Brown and Freddie Gray in Ferguson, Mo., through the ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, and leading up to the Obama administration’s embrace of BLM’s leaders. After the meeting, BLM leader DeRay McKesson responded to questions about his movement’s culpability for inciting violence by asserting that his “people take to the streets as a last resort. . . . So when I think about anything that happens when people are in the street, I always start by saying, ‘People should not have had to have been there in the first place.’”

As the lawyers for the Baton Rouge cop, who must remain anonymous to protect his family, properly concluded: “These statements were a ratification and justification of the violence.”

But instead of recriminations, the militants of BLM enjoy continued praise and coddling from corporate America. Tech execs from Netflix, YouTube, and Google all donated to McKesson’s failed mayoral bid in Baltimore. Business execs have been coughing up untold hundreds of millions of dollars to BLM and related causes, funneled through left-wing nonprofits such as the Ford Foundation and Borealis Philanthropy.

On Tuesday, Walmart executive Doug McMillon wagged his finger at Trump, urging “elected officials to do their part to promote a more just, tolerant and diverse society.”

This from the head of a retail giant that only recently stopped selling racially divisive, anti-cop taunting, violence-glamorizing T-shirts that bragged: “Bulletproof: Black Lives Matter.”

And the disavowal double standards beat goes on.
 
George Lincoln Rockwell's ( Commander of the American Nazi Party ) name comes up frequently in reports of "The Battle of Charlottesville",
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22george+lincoln+rockwell%22+charlottesville&oq=%22george+lincoln+rockwell%22+charlottesville&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.2647.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525...0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.e2wMZp-WV7g

"When I was in the advertising game, we used to use nude women. Now I use the swastika and storm troopers. You use what brings them in."

He got along with many Black nationalist groups and their leaders such as Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X.
http://www.anthonyflood.com/rockwellelijah.htm






 
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