Advice for women on BMQ and other courses [MERGED]

[Garry]

tough topic...and a tough crowd.

I have met some women that would kick the bejeezus out of any three of us. They‘re few and far between, but they exist.

Women can do the job.

I‘m concerned about the effectiveness of the unit as a whole. The Israelis gave it a go, and found that the men in the unit tended to watch out for the women when in contact, to the detriment of the other men.

Note: that‘s not the women‘s fault, it‘s ours...but it‘s still a problem.

On a personal note, I do not want women in the combat arms. There has to be one place left where men can be men: spit, scratch ourselves, get drunk, fight, tell dirty jokes...play cowboys and indians if that‘s whats needed.

I‘m tired of always being Politically Correct.



Cheers-Garry

 

[xtramag]

prv.
(awaiting battle school)
39th brg
RMR A Coy

(for the "i havent signd up yet")

WW2 russian snipers were female because of necesity, most males we used in infantry combat, charges and general combat, wemon were not specificly recruited to be snipers, it was a combat role they adopted, these female snipers were defending thier cities from invaders, i bet you thier was senior citiziens in the sniper role as well, you said most men would be incapable of the role, you are correct. but i guarente you that thier are more compentant males than females for this line of work. based on physical size, strength, and mental toughness the male will beat a women every time, if you take two people you take the best you can find, combat arms has a tonn of kick *** army girls who can kick the *** off alot of guys but in the SNIPER COMBAT role they are bested

 

[Garry]

well, can‘t let that one pass.

xtramag-

Toughness? ever had a baby?

Patience- talk to ANY wife.....

Aggression- try hurting a womens kid...

Wiley- see anyone that‘s been divorced...

Strength- you ever carried a kid and groceries home 5 blocks and up 3 flights of stairs?

Resiliance- try putting up with me (or any man for that matter)

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

I‘m not a sniper- but I am a soldier- and it‘s not about physical toughness, but mental toughness.

Cheers-Garry

 

[xtramag]

yes i understand what women go through alot and are very tough, all im saying is that at this point in time the physical requirments are to intence for the average female recruit and the emotional stress is severe to the point that allot of wemon couldent do the job. i fully understand were you are comming from but lugging a baby and grocerys five blocks is alot diffrent than hauling your buddy off a mountain after hes been shot in the neck by small arms fire. how many girls can stomach an exsploding cranium or a seperating sternum, not many. no, i have never endured the pain of having a baby, but i have exsperianced simulated fire, and i thank god every day that i have not yet been forced into a real fire-fight, the mental and emotional stress people endure when they fight for thier lives is phenominal, if i had to count on somone beside me to pop up and fight back, i will count on a male before any female. yes male soldiers freeze underfire but im willing to bet not as frequently as females, nothing against them or anything, they are some of the best soldiers around but some trades should remain closed.

 

[Danjanou]

no, i have never endured the pain of having a baby, but i have exsperianced simulated fire,

Well that kind of sums it up there eh.

There are woman out there that have endured the pain of child birth and real not simulated fire skippy.

Like Garry and Michael tried to point out to you it isn‘t just physical but overall toughness and that includes mental and emotional. There are plenty of guys out there including some serving right now who may not have the physical skills you keep harping on about.

I know I bumped into more than one "tough guy" on FTX‘s and QL3s who turned into a crybaby because they couldn‘t hack it in the field during training. I can just imagine what would have happened had they not discovered that they were in the wrong career long before they found themselves in a place/situation where the flying fecal matter hit the rotary air circulating device.

Don‘t dump on someone before they have a chance to prove or disprove your rather limited view of how things work. Hey if we used your attitude we wouldn‘t have even let you in the door based on the way you open mouth before engaging brain cells.

 

[GhostRecce]

like stated before woman are the same when it comes to the special forces in Canada. so they are treated the same and are expected to do everything the males are expected to do. unlike the fitness test when first getting in.

 

[DP]

I am not in the military, but it is something I‘ve recently been considering, therefore I DO NOT know much about snipers, only what I‘ve been told & have read (excluding movies which are sure to glorify anything that might seem "cool")and I do not claim to know much about the trade. still...

xtramag: some of the things you‘ve posted seem a little off; "the physical requirements are too intense for the average female recruit"... isn‘t that kind of the point? Snipers are elite are they not? no "average recruit", male OR female could withstand the mental & physical pressures
of such a trade. "...the emotional stress is severe to the point that alot of women couldn‘t do the job." Again, many men couldn‘t do the job either. Here‘s a question before I yap off about something of which I‘m uncertain; in combat, or even training, do women generally buckle sooner under pressure than their male counterparts?
It seems like you are comparing the BEST of male soldiers to the bottom of the barrel female soldiers.
"how many girls can stomach an exploding cranium or a separating sternum" I have nerver been forced to "stomach" either of the above (thankfully, as very few of us have), but are you basing this opinion on girls you went to high school with? the ones who screamed when they saw a spider? of course I realise that actually watching someone die (by your own hand or that of someone else)is far more horrifying than anything imaginable, but it seems like you have alot of pre-conceived notions about us "girls". I really hope that your point with the above quote was not that "girls" would not be able to handle the "blood & gore" aspect of it, as calmly as a man, considering of course how many female surgeons, medics etc. there are, not to mention the female nurses in all the wars. "I will count on a male before any female" Ouch, that one just hurts, eventhough I‘m sure you are just telling the truth. I have a feeling that many male soldiers would agree with you on that one, considering the "housewife, damsel in distress, always needing help etc." notions which have been beaten into the heads of everyone. "some trades should remain closed" I know that this is only your opinion, but here‘s the thing (in my opinion) Snipers are the best, the best shots, and I imagine they‘re the most patient (as was stated in earlier posts that they have to remain still for days on end to complete their mission).
My point is, if snipers are the BEST, it should be the best of soldiers, male and female. Not just the best of the males, and then the best of the females, but the best of soldiers.

Garry: in one of your posts you spoke of not wanting women in the combat arms because you believe there should be a place where men can be men. This seems a little silly to be the single reason you do not think women should be in the combat arms. there has to be a legitimate reason, I‘d love to hear you elaborate on your reasons.

 

[Garry]

sure, I‘m selfish

 

[muskrat89]

I‘ve never actually flown a 747, but it‘s something I‘ve been thinking a lot about lately...

Why do they have such weird steering things? Why not tiller bars, or a full steering wheel? Seems to me they shouldn‘t need so many doo-dads, in the cockpit...

The women in combat thing has been beaten to death on here. Do a search, and you‘ll find lots of threads

Sorry - jutes made me grouchy

 

[Burke]

Women can serve in combat positions in only the Air Force and Marines here in the states.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by DP:
[qb]Garry: in one of your posts you spoke of not wanting women in the combat arms because you believe there should be a place where men can be men. This seems a little silly to be the single reason you do not think women should be in the combat arms. there has to be a legitimate reason, I‘d love to hear you elaborate on your reasons. [/qb]

I don‘t want to sound like I‘m picking on Garry because I‘m not. But as far as political-correctness goes, I have no respect and rarely the time of day for anyone who spits on the sidewalk, breaks wind in public and thinks its funny, or uses words like "******" in conversation. We have all met people who think the Army is an excuse to let themselves go; I‘ve always considered it a place where one raises himself above the "common man". It‘s why we shine our shoes, cut our hair short, and dress alike. Swearing and commiting vulgar bodily functions for laughs has nothing to do with discipline; quite the opposite, it shows an embarrassing lack of self control. Frankly, I appreciate the civilizing influence women have on workplaces - military and civilian both. We‘re better than cavemen, such a pity some people don‘t feel the need to demonstrate it!

 

[xtramag]

hang on a sec, i want to make it clear that i am in no way against females in the canadian forces, i know quite a few females who serve as clerks and supply techs but give them a gun and they steal the show on the range, in training the females bust *** double quick to proove people wrong. thier fast, organizied, they think on thier toes, they listen, they rarely screw around on duty and all in all make very good soldiers, yes they handle incredible mental strain very well, i would soiled my pants if i was ever in the posotion some female soldiers have been in. i would fight along side a competent female any day of the week, but in the end, when you add the statistics the majority of snipers will be male, most have been male, and i believe most snipers will continue to be male. slowly we will see more female spec. ops or snipers but its going to take time, and lots of hard work from a dedicated female soldier,

 

[combat_medic]

xtramag: OK, listen here skippy, sit down and read carefully. It‘s ignorant and mysogynistic f&ckwits like yourself that have held back progress for centuries.

You want to know why snipers have always been male? Well, let‘s start out with the fact that women have only been allowed in the combat arms in Canada for a handful of years, and we‘re still one of the only countries that allows it. Then, when a woman finally does break through a previously all-male unit, she is treated poorly, ignored, given the crappy jobs, and made to feel unwelcome. If she has enough fortitude to go it alone and not let herself be bullied out of the unit, she will undoubdetly meet more sexist @sshats like you who will make every attempt to impede her career.

If, after all the challenges and obstacles, she somehow manages to get a sniper course, and passes, she will be again amidst a slough of men who will feel some resentment at a woman breaking into their "all boys club".

You wonder why they‘re not around? What guy would put up will that much bull$hit and still hang around? Who would subject themselves to years of this kind of treatment willingly? Most men would go running for the hills after that much mistreatment, but these women keep it up, and they have my every respect and confidence.

As for carrying someone on the battlefield... I weigh 160 and have fireman carried a guy who weighs 230. Care to beat that Sparky? I‘m also a fantastic shot and have better than 20/20 vision. Lucky for you I‘m a medic, and the Geneva convention prohibits me from beating your @ss into a bloody pulp. So, for the future, please keep your ignorant comments to yourself. And reading a book or two about sniping does not give you the authority to spount off your opinions on who YOU think can do the job.

Oh, and FYI... in the medical field I‘ve seen plenty of people pass out from fear of needles, or cry like babies when they were sick. They were all men!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Well said combat_medic!

 

[Danjanou]

Ok who besides me would prefer to have Combat Medic over empty I mean xtra mag in a slit trench when there‘s incoming rounds whizzing overhead?

Well put CM, pleasure to converse with professionals and grown ups here.

 

[combat_medic]

Thanks Danjanou. If you‘re ever around Seaforth, let me know, I‘ll be happy to buy you a beer and we can shoot the $hit.

 

[xtramag]

i fully understand that alot of woman can soldier better than alot of guys, COMBAT-MEDIC my point is that yes, thier are highly skilled combat arms females, very hardworking, dedicated and great soldiers, however i believe that the role of COMBAT SNIPER will always be male dominated even with @uckwits and @s****s like me, Thier are many exceptions, but compared to males how many females aspire to be a COMBAT SNIPER. thier are very succecfull females in the infantry and para coys, but why is it that they dont attend sniper school in a large capacity, why is it they dont flock to JTF training if they are fully welcome?

the whole issue of acceptance only goes so far, now im opening my mind here, somone tell me why despite all the open trades do woman not snipe or join jtf-2. thier must be an emotional or physical factor that limits most females, its not the showvinist pigdog males that stop every single female in the canadian forces, thier is a natural barrier,

so without the whole "im a @asterd cause i think females shouldent snipe" exsplain to me why they dont join the Trade?????

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Seeing how we really don‘t know the true make up of JTF2 how do we know for certain whether or not women are part of the team? Food for thought.

 

[xtramag]

Okay look, i seem to have gotten myself off to a shaky start, i presume i look like a close-minded, smugg, self-centerd, showvanistic pigdog woman hater, so i apologize for my stupid rants, from now on im going to use evidence and credible information in my posts, as i have said several times i have total respect for combat arms females, i based my aguments to woman in the SNIPER COMBAT on the fact that most females i know couldent handle it, i failed to realise the fact that canadian service females are a very diffrent breed than the average "chick". i guess if a female enrolls in combat arms shes is prepared and has been found medicaly fit to handle the emotional and physical demands of the job. because a soldier is female she shouldent be limited by regulations or policy, so i guess i got abit arrogant and closed-minded on the way i saw the issue and all the negitive feed-back was a good gut chek, so i guess apologies to combat-medic, and and promise of future intelligence to everyone else.

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

Now I realize that I have an unfair advantage but I walked through an airport "somewhere" and noticed a gaggle of troopies. These troopies were shaggy but well disciplined in their stance and in the ways of the weightroom. I strolled by and said,"why don‘t you guys just put up a ****in sign SGT."
Well holy **** and hello if that didn‘t get a reaction. I LMAO all the way out. The best part of course was the max flinch. I think they appreciated the humour when I looked back and gave a field signal. Really I just felt old.