A Deeply Fractured US

[dapaterson]

Perhaps the solution is not age-based, but competency-based? We would just have to find a constitutionally-compliant competency evaluation. Heck, some might not even make the cut in their 30s/40s…

The Montreal Cognitive Assessment?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/19/trump-cognitive-test/

 

[GR66]

We do do that in the CAF it's just not an age thing. Once you breach the universality of service you've been deemed to not be able to hack it any more.

And we are tested every year by DAGs, ARVs and PT tests to confirm we can still hack it.

Perhaps our politicians should go through the same Admin hoops every year to stay in the HoC.

What kind of objective "test" would determine a MP's suitability to serve in the HOC? They are elected to represent us in parliament not to perform a physical task. Voters should be the only ones to determine whether they are doing so to their satisfaction not some administrative process.

Fair. Things can be changed though. The minimum age now is 18, and it used to be 21. So there is precedence for adjustments.

80 and 70 year olds shouldn't be running countries.

John A Macdonald was 76 when he left office as was Golda Meir in Israel. Louis St. Laurent was 75 and so was Benjamin Disraeli in the UK. Winston Churchill was 80 as was Nelson Mandela (he didn't even take office as President of South Africa until he was 75).

So would you deny the possibility of leaders such as these being in office just because you don't happen to like the two choices that are running in the current US Presidential election? American political parties and electors have multiple opportunities to put alternate candidates before the general public in the elections but for whatever reasons they have decided not to.

Again I'd suggest interfering with the free will of voters to choose whichever candidate they want - regardless of their age - is not the proper response to the fact that Joe Biden and Donald Trump are two crappy choices for US President.

 

[suffolkowner]

What kind of objective "test" would determine a MP's suitability to serve in the HOC? They are elected to represent us in parliament not to perform a physical task. Voters should be the only ones to determine whether they are doing so to their satisfaction not some administrative process.

John A Macdonald was 76 when he left office as was Golda Meir in Israel. Louis St. Laurent was 75 and so was Benjamin Disraeli in the UK. Winston Churchill was 80 as was Nelson Mandela (he didn't even take office as President of South Africa until he was 75).

So would you deny the possibility of leaders such as these being in office just because you don't happen to like the two choices that are running in the current US Presidential election? American political parties and electors have multiple opportunities to put alternate candidates before the general public in the elections but for whatever reasons they have decided not to.

Again I'd suggest interfering with the free will of voters to choose whichever candidate they want - regardless of their age - is not the proper response to the fact that Joe Biden and Donald Trump are two crappy choices for US President.

I kinda agree but leaving office and entering office arent the same thing.

 

[GR66]

I kinda agree but leaving office and entering office arent the same thing.

And age isn't some kind of magical determinant of political capability. Justin Trudeau was 43 when he became Prime Minister. Does that somehow automatically make him a better choice as a politician over someone that's 70 with a lifetime of experience?

I'm certainly not saying that cognitive decline among aging leaders isn't/shouldn't be an issue. I'm simply saying that setting an arbitrary age limit for politicians like was suggested doesn't somehow mean we'll get better leaders. It also takes away the right of voters to select who they want to represent them.

 

[suffolkowner]

And age isn't some kind of magical determinant of political capability. Justin Trudeau was 43 when he became Prime Minister. Does that somehow automatically make him a better choice as a politician over someone that's 70 with a lifetime of experience?

I'm certainly not saying that cognitive decline among aging leaders isn't/shouldn't be an issue. I'm simply saying that setting an arbitrary age limit for politicians like was suggested doesn't somehow mean we'll get better leaders. It also takes away the right of voters to select who they want to represent them.

Im not saying there should be a limit but on average yes and its not just cognitive decline thats an issue its the perception of the world one lives in that has been biased by the experience of the world that was. One could look at Biden and Trump as representing to opposite poles of old age as well. Biden represents the startled old man afraid of his shadow and Trump is the old man that just doesnt GAF anymore and thus is afraid of nothing

 

[Brad Sallows]

Both countries already have provisions for dealing with incompetency. Parliament approximately can do as it pleases with the nominal leader. The US has the 25th.

What to do with weak-minded-but-not-incapacitated is the vexing question, and that's usually up to voters. A malleable leader is probably seen as an advantage by staffers and bureaucrats.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What kind of objective "test" would determine a MP's suitability to serve in the HOC? They are elected to represent us in parliament not to perform a physical task. Voters should be the only ones to determine whether they are doing so to their satisfaction not some administrative process.

John A Macdonald was 76 when he left office as was Golda Meir in Israel. Louis St. Laurent was 75 and so was Benjamin Disraeli in the UK. Winston Churchill was 80 as was Nelson Mandela (he didn't even take office as President of South Africa until he was 75).

So would you deny the possibility of leaders such as these being in office just because you don't happen to like the two choices that are running in the current US Presidential election? American political parties and electors have multiple opportunities to put alternate candidates before the general public in the elections but for whatever reasons they have decided not to.

Again I'd suggest interfering with the free will of voters to choose whichever candidate they want - regardless of their age - is not the proper response to the fact that Joe Biden and Donald Trump are two crappy choices for US President.

I was being facetious about the testing of MPs. Just a point to prove we do release people when they are no longer able to preform the required tasks.

If you're comfortable with the elderly running things good on ya, I am not.

 

[Good2Golf]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

This is what I said,

Okay, so how do you think she would have handled a derailment in 2014, in your own words?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In last night's speech Biden referred to Trump as the sitting president.

 

[brihard]

Okay, so how do you think she would have handled a derailment in 2014, in your own words?

“How would they handle a train wreck?” is pretty much a universally valid criteria for anyone running for office in this day and age.

 

[lenaitch]

This is a complete non-starter. Section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that: “Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.”

There’s no way an arbitrary age limit - which would also be a breach of S.15 equality rights - could survive a Charter challenge.

Maybe, maybe not. The court has upheld a minimum voting age as a reasonable limitation to the first clause of Section 3, so who knows, but I can't imagine what would bring it to them unless it was a reference case on proposed legislation. If an upper age was embedded in the Constitution through amendment, I'm not sure the court would have much flexibility.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In last night's speech Biden referred to Trump as the sitting president.

Caught a video of an upset US soldier who was visited by Biden while int he hospital. He said Biden was trying to shake his hand; the soldier had to tell the president he didn't have a right arm.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

You can't seriously believe that those videos of Biden stammering are indicative of how he communicates all the time, do you?

Actually, my understanding is that Biden has always had a stammer; its nothing new.

 

[mariomike]

“How would they handle a train wreck?” is pretty much a universally valid criteria for anyone running for office in this day and age.

The train crew and first responders handled it.

 

[Good2Golf]

The first responders handled it.

So then why did you initially bring it up as an example of something you appear to believe Mayor McCallion would have handled differently in 2014 than in 1979?

 

[mariomike]

So then why did you initially bring it up as an example of something you appear to believe Mayor McCallion would have handled differently in 2014 than in 1979?

That was 1979. Not sure how well she would have managed something like that, especially with the population increase, in 2014, while still mayor.

I said, "Not sure" because I am "Not sure."

She would have been 93 years old in 2014.

Not sure how well any of the trainmen or those of us who worked that scene would have handled it if still on the job 35 years later. Especially at age 93.

What a way to spend your Sunday afternoon.

Were you there?

 

[Good2Golf]

Im being productive enough framing my basement and taking breaks to see what problems people have with long-time politicians. I met Hazel McCallion twice in person, the second being when she visited a centenarian at my parents’ place in Mississauga, and she was intelligent and sharp as a tack on both occasions. I suppose I was personalizing what I saw to be someone throwing out some semi-anonymous aspersions to a specific individual to make some kind of wider point.

I’m heading back downstairs to do more framing, so there’ll be some relief to the OT derail…

 

[mariomike]

Im being productive enough framing my basement and taking breaks to see what problems people have with long-time politicians. I met Hazel McCallion twice in person, the second being when she visited a centenarian at my parents’ place in Mississauga, and she was intelligent and sharp as a tack on both occasions. I suppose I was personalizing what I saw to be someone throwing out some semi-anonymous aspersions to a specific individual to make some kind of wider point.

I’m heading back downstairs to do more framing, so there’ll be some relief to the OT derail…

I've met her too. Seemed like a very nice person. RIP

Afternoon is not a total waste either. Watching "Bonehead Truckers".

 

[KevinB]

Trump = Treason.

In his own words too.

 

[brihard]

Trump = Treason.

In his own words too.
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I’m skeptical that this is real. The writing is too clean.