A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

Age limits need to be set on national leadership.

I propose 55.

I would raise that to at least 65. Match it with most retirement qualifiers.

On another somewhat related issue some car rental agencies have also set a max age they are willing to rent a car to.

How about we add a maximum time to sit as an MP too. No more careers built in the HOC.

I know this is an American thread...

This is a complete non-starter. Section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that: “Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.”

There’s no way an arbitrary age limit - which would also be a breach of S.15 equality rights - could survive a Charter challenge.

 

[mariomike]

As far as age goes, interesting to note two-term President Bill Clinton has been out of office almost a quarter century, and is still younger than both of these "dotards."

Not my word. I read North Korea called one of them that.

some car rental agencies have also set a max age they are willing to rent a car to.

Sorta funny when one considers they are too old to rent a car, yet not too old for the nuke codes. ☺

 

[Halifax Tar]

So if a particular constituency has an effective and well liked MP you'd limit voters rights to continue to elect that person as their representative?

CAF members typically experience physical decline as they get older due to both natural aging and wear and tear on their bodies. Maybe as they become less effective we should force them out to make room for younger, more able members and avoid them building a career in the CAF?

I know it's a silly comparison but I find it a little confusing when people complain about government overreach and overly socialistic systems turn around and want to impose arbitrary controls and limits to individual freedoms to correct a specific situation that THEY don't like.

We do do that in the CAF it's just not an age thing. Once you breach the universality of service you've been deemed to not be able to hack it any more.

And we are tested every year by DAGs, ARVs and PT tests to confirm we can still hack it.

Perhaps our politicians should go through the same Admin hoops every year to stay in the HoC.

This is a complete non-starter. Section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that: “Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.”

There’s no way an arbitrary age limit - which would also be a breach of S.15 equality rights - could survive a Charter challenge.

Fair. Things can be changed though. The minimum age now is 18, and it used to be 21. So there is precedence for adjustments.

80 and 70 year olds shouldn't be running countries.

 

[Good2Golf]

And there are examples of good older politicians…yes Hazel McCallion had a long and well-respected career as Mayor of Mississauga. Admittedly, politicians of her caliber are rare, but not constitutional unsupportable.

 

[brihard]

Fair. Things can be changed though. The minimum age now is 18, and it used to be 21. So there is precedence for adjustments.

21 -> 18 happened pre-Charter, but was an expansion of rights anyway, not an increased limitation.

80 and 70 year olds shouldn't be running countries.

That’s for voters to decide.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And there are examples of good older politicians…yes Hazel McCallion had a long and well-respected career as Mayor of Mississauga. Admittedly, politicians of her caliber are rare, but not constitutional unsupportable.

There are exceptions to everything. But I would risk losing a Hazel McCallion to avoid having a Joe Biden or Trump as my countries leader.

 

[Good2Golf]

There are exceptions to everything. But I would risk losing a Hazel McCallion to avoid having a Joe Biden or Trump as my countries leader.

Perhaps the solution is not age-based, but competency-based? We would just have to find a constitutionally-compliant competency evaluation. Heck, some might not even make the cut in their 30s/40s…

 

[Halifax Tar]

That’s for voters to decide.

No doubt. But as we are seeing now the US has the option of senile and the grandpa who's always asleep vs senile and the crazy right wing uncle at Christmas dinner.

Agreed it's up to the parties to provide better options, but should the system provide some more stringent guidelines to ensure we don't get these options?

 

[mariomike]

Hazel McCallion had a long and well-respected career as Mayor of Mississauga.

When the Mississauga train derailment occurred early in her tenure, she helped oversee evacuation of 200,000 residents from the resulting explosion, fire, and spill of hazardous chemicals.

That was 1979. Not sure how well she would have managed something like that, especially with the population increase, in 2014, while still mayor.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Perhaps the solution is not age-based, but competency-based? We would just have to find a constitutionally-compliant competency evaluation. Heck, some might not even make the cut in their 30s/40s…

I mean I could comprise with that but I have a feeling it would just get corrupted.

 

[Good2Golf]

I mean could comprise with that but I have a feeling it would just get corrupted.

Sadly, I believe you’re right, Tar. With enough time, arguably everything (can) get corrupted.

When the Mississauga train derailment occurred early in her tenure, she helped oversee evacuation of 200,000 residents from the resulting explosion, fire, and spill of hazardous chemicals.

That was 1979. Not sure how well she would have managed something like that, especially with the population increase, in 2014, while still mayor.

Are you saying she wasn’t competent in 2014?

 

[suffolkowner]

Age limits need to be set on national leadership.

I propose 55.

probably no reason to overreact to what is hopefully a unique situation regarding the candidates age and fitness for office

List of presidents of the United States by age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Halifax Tar]

Are you saying she wasn’t competent in 2014?

Cognitive decline with age is a thing.

 

[suffolkowner]

Sadly, I believe you’re right, Tar. With enough time, arguably everything (can) get corrupted.



Are you saying she wasn’t competent in 2014?

people continue to get reelected way past their best before date. Mayors throughout Canada are probably a good example of that and I would put Hazel in that group

 

[mariomike]

Are you saying she wasn’t competent in 2014?

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

This is what I said,

Not sure how well she would have managed something like that, especially with the population increase, in 2014, while still mayor.

Cognitive decline with age is a thing.

 

[TacticalTea]

This is a complete non-starter. Section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that: “Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.”

There’s no way an arbitrary age limit - which would also be a breach of S.15 equality rights - could survive a Charter challenge.

Utterly irrelevant.

The Charter is a creation of the people. If the people want change, they'll change.

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With that said, I think I would also oppose such changes. Term limits for MPs means you never get seasoned senior MPs who know their way around government. Ministers are always juniors. Bureaucrats and lobbyists would retain the upper hand, always. Laws would be written by specially interested parties, not by experienced legislators.

A term limit for President is fine, because a President typically has had considerable political experience beforehand.

And then if the electorate votes in a senile old fart... that's on them. You get the leaders you deserve.

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What I might support, however, is an age limit to vote. (Note that I would also support raising the lower age limit, to something around 21-25)

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Let's get a few things straight here: We are not in the same situation as the Americans because we do not elect either our head of state or our head of government.

Our previous head of state was 96 when she "retired" and pretty well lucid until the end. As for our head of government, they are appointed by the head of stet as part of the crown's unfettered privilege and the only way, in Canada, to affect crown privilege is through an amendment to the constitution requiring the highest level of amending formula : the unanimous decision of both chambers of parliament and the unanimous approval of every single province without exception. We've proven that we can't even get amendments passed that require the lowest level formula, so good luck with any term limits on our head of government.

Besides, because we are in a different system than the Americans, chances of having a head of government get to such point that they are unable to perform the duties and responsibilities properly is unlikely in the extreme. Why, you ask? Because in our system, either caucus through a simple majority vote or if caucus is unwilling, the commons can remove a prime minister by way of a vote of non-confidence. There is no need to wait for the next election cycle.

 

[TacticalTea]

Besides, because we are in a different system than the Americans, chances of having a head of government get to such point that they are unable to perform the duties and responsibilities properly is unlikely in the extreme. Why, you ask? Because in our system, either caucus through a simple majority vote or if caucus is unwilling, the commons can remove a prime minister by way of a vote of non-confidence. There is no need to wait for the next election cycle.

I used to believe that.

The current crop of red and orange Liberals has proven that to be false.

 

[mariomike]

Two-term President Eisenhower put it this way,

“The greater likelihood that a man of 70 will break down under a load than a man of 50,”

The Real Presidential-Age Question

The question of whether a candidate is too old will figure in the 2016 Presidential race—but not how most of us think it will.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

I suspect dislike for Trump is colouring some peoples opinion on Biden's very obvious and very clear cognitive abilities.

Trump is more likely to fire an advisor who offers advice he doesn't like. Biden is likely to do whatever his advisors tell him to do. Pick your poison.