2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Brad Sallows]

I would rather live in a country where my disposable income is more. Nothing says "respect and dignity" like providing income to others. A vocal very small minority of assholes is well worth the cost.

My only sources of food are pretty much all self-interested private industry. Biggest difficulty is choosing from the wide array of stuff on offer.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It's not his policies, and it's not even that I think he's a weasel. It's that I feel he is creating an environment where extremists feel emboldened to talk/act, just like Trump did in the states. I would rather live in a country where my disposable income is less but people treat each other with dignity and respect than a country where my taxes are lower but people feel safe verbally attacking those they disagree with.

Oh, but as far policies go, I hate his desire to see the CBC done away with. You seriously want to have our only source of news be self-interested private industry?

Do you seriously want to have your only source of news be a self-interested Crown Corporation, who is only too happy taking talking points from this Government?

Works both ways…

 

[Lumber]

Do you seriously want to have your only source of news be a self-interested Crown Corporation, who is only too happy taking talking points from this Government?

Works both ways…

You've activated my trap card! #yugioh

I never said I wanted my only source of news be a self-interested Crown Corporation. That would be F***ing stupid. While in the Canadian context I don't think it would be as bad as the Chinese public news, it would certainly be something toward Russian media style where "independent" media, well, isn't.

You need to have both.

Also, while I agree that CBC is definitely left leaning and overly supportive/kind to the government in general and LPC more specifically, anyone who thinks that the CBC is actually signing and dancing to the literal tune of the PMO or LPC can come get the tin hats my daughter made today.

 

[Lumber]

I would rather live in a country where my disposable income is more. Nothing says "respect and dignity" like providing income to others. A vocal very small minority of assholes is well worth the cost.

My only sources of food are pretty much all self-interested private industry. Biggest difficulty is choosing from the wide array of stuff on offer.

Where would you draw the line? Seriously, if you can't give an answer just think about it yourself for a minute.

If you could snap your fingers and transport your whole life to somewhere where you make more money and your money goes farther, but the culture of the people in how they treat each other is more violent and asshole'ish, how much more violent and asshole'ish would it have to be before you changed your mind and said "nah, this is too hostile an environment to live in, I'd rather go back to making less money and having people get along? Would today's level of partisanship and animosity in US politics cross the line? Would Russian "democracy" be the line? Would fascist Germany be the line?

Obviously, everyone's answer to that would be different. My line is somewhere worse than it is today, but before we get to the current level of US discourse. So, someone like Skippy, to me, is moving us in the wrong direction.

 

[Lumber]

Pierre Poilievre!

#first

 

[Remius]

Looks like a decisive win for PP at 68% or so on the first ballot.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Looks like a decisive win for PP at 68% or so on the first ballot.

whatever you think of PP, this is certainly better than limping in on the second or third ballot with 51%.

 

[Remius]

whatever you think of PP, this is certainly better than limping in on the second or third ballot with 51%.

it certainly gives him legitimacy as far as where he wants to take the party.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I doubt that prosperity and violence have to go hand-in-hand. Most people become less violent when basic needs like employment are met, which allow them to aspire to more. I'm in no doubt that if we go far enough the other way, we end up where people have been in the past: family, clan, tribe, village, etc, with us-against-them playing out with increasing scope at each level.

 

[FJAG]

it certainly gives him legitimacy as far as where he wants to take the party.

So now we wait and see where he really wants to take the party.

 

[Furniture]

I would rather live in a country where my disposable income is less but people treat each other with dignity and respect than a country where my taxes are lower but people feel safe verbally attacking those they disagree with.

That country is long gone(if it ever actually existed), social media has seen to that, and politicians of all stripes have leaned into it... The PM implied a Jewish CPC MP was on the side of Nazis in the HoC...

I'd rather a fresh government than the stale, scandal riddled one we have now.

 

[ArmyRick]

I have seen a few comparisons of PP to Trump. Please, get real. That little tactic alone is a Liberal playbook tool and I am pretty sure its getting tiresome.

You can only cry wolf so many times.

How come so many people can give a free pass to Trudeau on just about every scandal and unethical action?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Where would you draw the line? Seriously, if you can't give an answer just think about it yourself for a minute.

If you could snap your fingers and transport your whole life to somewhere where you make more money and your money goes farther, but the culture of the people in how they treat each other is more violent and asshole'ish, how much more violent and asshole'ish would it have to be before you changed your mind and said "nah, this is too hostile an environment to live in, I'd rather go back to making less money and having people get along? Would today's level of partisanship and animosity in US politics cross the line? Would Russian "democracy" be the line? Would fascist Germany be the line?

Obviously, everyone's answer to that would be different. My line is somewhere worse than it is today, but before we get to the current level of US discourse. So, someone like Skippy, to me, is moving us in the wrong direction.

We like to pretend we are nicer than Americans but my answer is it just depends on where you are. I have had some of the nicest most welcoming greetings of my life in parts of the US and also some of the most hostile unwelcome interactions in parts of Canada.

My biggest concern at the moment is Trudeau is A) creating/inciting the rhetoric/extremists with his policies and actions, and B) is actually creating a unsafe crime ridden environment which poses a danger to my family by failing to keep criminals off the streets well not caring about the victims they harm. I am less concerned about the rhetoric people are using, than the legitimate threats that are actually increasing. How many innocent Canadians need to die because this government is refusing to repeal a clearly failed law (Bill C75) and replace it with something which will actually work to protect us?

 

[Remius]

So now we wait and see where he really wants to take the party.

Correct.

Justin Ling had a good analysis of where he thinks PP will go.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568765916065955842

 

[ArmyRick]

Correct.

Justin Ling had a good analysis of where he thinks PP will go.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568765916065955842

All he has are his opinions. So does everyone else.

More nonsense speculation about PP.

 

[Remius]

All he has are his opinions. So does everyone else.

More nonsense speculation about PP.

Of course and I said as much that it was his opinion.

But it makes sense. PP won’t court then Center and may have found another way to get the CPC into power.

What parts of what he opines on is nonsense to you?

That he won’t pivot? I don’t think he will.

That he isn’t a racist? I don’t think he is either.

That Trudeau will go scorched earth and not actually campaign on governance? I suspect that is where we are heading.

 

[FJAG]

Correct.

Justin Ling had a good analysis of where he thinks PP will go.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568765916065955842

I'm still on the fence but leaning away. Trouble is, there's nowhere to lean to.

His support for the Freedom convoy pushed me away. It felt opportunistic. I'm a big fan of less government and more freedom but that issue was just plain stupid.

If he's not courting the centre then he's not courting me.

 

[Kirkhill]

Where would you draw the line? Seriously, if you can't give an answer just think about it yourself for a minute.

If you could snap your fingers and transport your whole life to somewhere where you make more money and your money goes farther, but the culture of the people in how they treat each other is more violent and asshole'ish, how much more violent and asshole'ish would it have to be before you changed your mind and said "nah, this is too hostile an environment to live in, I'd rather go back to making less money and having people get along? Would today's level of partisanship and animosity in US politics cross the line? Would Russian "democracy" be the line? Would fascist Germany be the line?

Obviously, everyone's answer to that would be different. My line is somewhere worse than it is today, but before we get to the current level of US discourse. So, someone like Skippy, to me, is moving us in the wrong direction.

The country I grew up in was populated by micks and jocks, geordies, scowsers and brummies, sassenachs and tcheuchters, cockneys and the posh.... and those were just my friends.

My real friends I called by names my parents wouldn't let me utter in the house.

Debate was vigorous.

But my first fight, which I lost badly, occurred in the cemetery adjacent to my first school in Canada.

 

[Remius]

I'm still on the fence but leaning away. Trouble is, there's nowhere to lean to.

His support for the Freedom convoy pushed me away. It felt opportunistic. I'm a big fan of less government and more freedom but that issue was just plain stupid.

If he's not courting the centre then he's not courting me.

Full disclosure, I am with you on all of that. He isn’t courting you or me. There is nowhere for people like us to lean for now so I will likely vote based on my preference as an MP. Given that mine supported the convoy and was nowhere to be seen after our riding was hit hard by weird weather i suspect I won’t be supporting him. But things can change in a few years.

But I do find the political manoeuvring fascinating and I think that Justin Ling hit the nail on the head.

PP got 68% of the vote. He’s got a very strong mandate to take the party where he wants to.

 

[ArmyRick]

A couple of thoughts on the upcoming PMFC (Prime Minister Fighting Championships) Defending champion JT vs top challenger PP.
-I think JT will watch the polls and try to exploit any opportunity to call a snap election if PP or ANY of his MPs slip up (if a Tory back bencher gets caught drinking and saying just the slightest dumbest thing for example)
-I think JT may try to sweeten the pot with the NDP and the Bloc to have them label PP as "the next Trump"
-In the next election, Singh, Bloc Guy and whoever is in the greens will not run to get as many votes as possible instead they will campaign to take away as many votes as possible from PP
-In an open debate, PP will destroy Trudeau for sure.
-JT will try to bring up any link of PP and his tory party to the trucker convoy, anti-vaxxers, "hate" (I bet he will blame the red neck who harassed Freeland on PP) and stopping or against any planned benefits for Canadians.
-I also think JT will try to label PP as bending to the corporate elite in Canada
-If PP stays on course, stays quick witted with well rehearsed (and researched) answers, he is going to make JT look like a fool
-PP should also use every opportunity to ask his difficult questions in Parliament Q & A

Canadians on the other hand can have a good election or piss poor one
-Please stop voting for a party because you always have, they are not a sports team
-Each region will probably stick to their guns.
-Ontario could be swung either way IMO. Hey Doug Ford got back in with a majority!

So lets see what happens.