2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Dana381]

I don't care about the user's identity; I care about the idea expressed.

Sometimes I like to look at the context of the idea quoted, or the idea intrigued me and I want to see the whole post. No user tags make that difficult. I have got to the point that if the user tag is removed I assume the quoter knows they are taking the quote out of context and that they are just trying to shitpost. I ignore the post completely then.

 

[Lumber]

This from the code of conduct guidelines:

"You will properly attribute any quotes to the appropriate author or speaker."

However, I'm not sure if this is referring to ALL quotes, which would include us quotes quoting each other, or quoting more formal sources, like from a book or website.

 

[QV]

The CPC under PP isn't a real alternative though. I'm not looking for perfection, just less bad.

Cryptobro of Freedom isn't really doing it for me, as the 'proposed' policies; aren't actually implementable.

'Justinflation' = Canada better than most of the G20 (and G7).
COVID mandates were similar across the globe, with a lower death/infection rate per capita against comparable countries.

Looking at what the world has gone through, Canada is coming up better than most, so it's a really unconvincing pitch.

Some of the slogans sounds good, but without a plan to achieve them, is just a slogan. I don't want perfection, just an actual idea of what he'll do differently in real terms. Right now he's offering himself as an alternative to JT (vice the LPC) without saying what he'll actually do differently. The guy has been nothing but an MP his professional life, so if he doesn't know what he can actually accomplish after 14 years as an MP, and what the PMO can't do, it's not really building confidence. If he's lying about things he knows he can't do, it's also not confidence building. His campaign claims aren't referenced, and fall apart when you poke at them.

Guy keeps going on about 'ruling elites', 'gatekeepers' and some other buzzwords, but he is one. He's proposing tax cuts to help Canadians; cool, lets see some high level details and see if they are for taxpayers or large businesses (who are already at one of the lowest effective tax rates in the G7).

Neither option is great, but his platform is basically meanigless promises that I don't see how he can keep without a really detailed plan, as some are pretty wide reaching. Aspirational is great, but it will take years to figure out these kind of details, and there is FA there now.

It sounds like you've made up your mind and status quo it is.

Thankfully more and more people don't think like this.

 

[Quirky]

The ironing when people say PP doesn't have any real-world experience when our current PM is a failed drama teacher and his side-kick is a bumbling incoherent ex-reporter running (into the ground) this country's finances. We have two incompetent people running this country with even more incompetent ministers. If this is our benchmark for leading this country, god help us.

 

[Lumber]

The ironing when people say PP doesn't have any real-world experience when our current PM is a failed drama teacher and his side-kick is a bumbling incoherent ex-reporter running (into the ground) this country's finances. We have two incompetent people running this country with even more incompetent ministers. If this is our benchmark for leading this country, god help us.

How is it irony? It's not like I said Trudeau was doing a good job and is meeting my "standard". It would be irony if I said PP didn't have hte right experience, but through Trudeau did, but that's not the case.

 

[Remius]

The ironing when people say PP doesn't have any real-world experience when our current PM is a failed drama teacher and his side-kick is a bumbling incoherent ex-reporter running (into the ground) this country's finances. We have two incompetent people running this country with even more incompetent ministers. If this is our benchmark for leading this country, god help us.

The real irony is those that lamented Trudeau’s lack of real life experience are embracing one with even less.

It just shows how partisan some people are.

I didn’t really care about Trudeau’s or PPs lack of real life experience. I like to point out that irony though.

We’ll know tomorrow who the leader is and we’ll see where this takes the CPC.

 

[IKnowNothing]

It's likely moot at this point, but how many Pro PP / Anti-Charest commenters have read Charest's platform, and what do you not like about it?
@ArmyRick

Policy | Jean Charest

Jean Charest is the conservative voice that can bring our movement together around common cause issues that champion our values.

www.jeancharest.ca

 

[Mick]

Sometimes I like to look at the context of the idea quoted, or the idea intrigued me and I want to see the whole post. No user tags make that difficult. I have got to the point that if the user tag is removed I assume the quoter knows they are taking the quote out of context and that they are just trying to shitpost. I ignore the post completely then.

Attributing the quote also sends a notification to the person being quoted, allowing timelier responses in order to clarify, provide context, rebut etc.

 

[Quirky]

The real irony is those that lamented Trudeau’s lack of real life experience are embracing one with even less.

People would rather vote for the Libs because they are already in power and using that as a benchmark (a horrible one at that), instead of looking at both parties separately. Anyone who votes for the LPC after everything that's happened over the past 7 years needs some serious......education. I'm not a CPC supporter by any means, but putting Trudeau back in power, wow. Just shows how stupid Canadians are.

 

[Remius]

People would rather vote for the Libs because they are already in power and using that as a benchmark (a horrible one at that), instead of looking at both parties separately. Anyone who votes for the LPC after everything that's happened over the past 7 years needs some serious......education. I'm not a CPC supporter by any means, but putting Trudeau back in power, wow. Just shows how stupid Canadians are.

Or it shows how inept the opposition is.

 

[Navy_Pete]

It sounds like you've made up your mind and status quo it is.

Thankfully more and more people don't think like this.

By questioning rhetoric and checking against actual facts?

If someone can point to what country has done better on the inflation side and what Canada could have done differently, I'd be interested to hear. That's not on PPs platform though.

The facts I could find (and posted in a link) show we're sitting at 7.8%, with the US and UK at 10%. 8% definitely sucks, but better than 10%. Similarly we are sitting overall at 1.1 COVID deaths per 100k versus 3.0 and 2.6 for the US and UK respectively. All objectively better.

My mind will be made up on election day, based on whatever information is available, but at the moment PP's campaign is pretty weak rhetoric, which only makes sense if you totally ignore global context.

 

[Lumber]

People would rather vote for the Libs because they are already in power and using that as a benchmark (a horrible one at that), instead of looking at both parties separately. Anyone who votes for the LPC after everything that's happened over the past 7 years needs some serious......education. I'm not a CPC supporter by any means, but putting Trudeau back in power, wow. Just shows how stupid Canadians are.

Alright, instead of listing off all the good things (IMO) that the LPC has accomplished in the last 7 years, I'm curious to know what exactly it is they've done so badly to make you think anyone who would vote liberal is stupid? I would genuinely like to know (if you are so inclined) some example of things that the LPC has done that are THAT bad that you'd have to be stupid to continue to vote for them.

 

[QV]

It's likely moot at this point, but how many Pro PP / Anti-Charest commenters have read Charest's platform, and what do you not like about it?
@ArmyRick

Policy | Jean Charest

Jean Charest is the conservative voice that can bring our movement together around common cause issues that champion our values.

www.jeancharest.ca

There is a lot to like in his policy suite. He might make a good minister in a PP government.

 

[Remius]

There is a lot to like in his policy suite. He might make a good minister in a PP government.

PP has already called Charest a Liberal. No way he makes him a cabinet minister. People like Charest will not be welcome in a PP led party. More is the pity.

 

[IKnowNothing]

There is a lot to like in his policy suite. He might make a good minister in a PP government.

Why not Prime Minister?

Strongest platform among candidates
Most leadership experience
Polls best among Canadians at large

 

[Navy_Pete]

Why not Prime Minister?

Strongest platform among candidates
Most leadership experience
Polls best among Canadians at large

Lack of witty slogans and pithy hashtags; this may be a good example of style over substance (which is specifically the complaint against JT).

If he takes over as leader of the CPC, and his platform translates to the party platform, I'd vote for the CPC.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Alright, instead of listing off all the good things (IMO) that the LPC has accomplished in the last 7 years, I'm curious to know what exactly it is they've done so badly to make you think anyone who would vote liberal is stupid? I would genuinely like to know (if you are so inclined) some example of things that the LPC has done that are THAT bad that you'd have to be stupid to continue to vote for them.

I've never voted for the man, but also prior to last fall always looked at the "F*&k Trudeau" movement with a kind of bemused curiosity. For the most of his tenure he was an adequate if vanilla PM. A little heavy on the social justice and identity politics but that wasn't really impactful. I had a great deal of respect for the way he handled the pandemic, worked with the Premiers, and appreciated how Canada got through things on all levels. There was a great fiscal price tag, but in terms of health, economic health, and the state of public discourse, we were in pretty damn good shape.

Then came Q3/Q4, and everything that's come since. I can't forgive him throwing that away to sacrifice on the alter of personal ambition with the election, driving the wedge, the EA. I can't overlook his lack of response to the situation in Ukraine, his complete lack of pragmatism on the energy front.

I just want something better to vote for

 

[Blackadder1916]

There is a lot to like in his policy suite. He might make a good minister in a PP government.

But Charest would have to run in an election (national or by-election) and get elected to Parliament without a guarantee of there even being a Poilievre government in the hope that he would be tapped to join the cabinet by someone who made it quite clear, during a sometimes acrimonious leadership race, that they didn't think much of his "conservative credentials" and who Charest considered to espouse a particularly troubling brand of conservatism. What do you think would be the odds of that happening? And if it did, what do you think would be the odds of being credited for formulating any portion of the party platform?

The musing might therefore be, not that he might make a good minister, but will he even remain (officially or unofficially) in the "CPC" between the leadership election and the next federal election.

 

[Halifax Tar]

At this point I don't want anymore JT lead government.

As for PP I don't see many people poking holes in him just throwing proverbial stones because they don't like him for personal reasons it seems. And that's fair enough as well I suppose.

Maybe the Liberals need to be sent away for a while to sort themselves out.

I will be voting for the candidate in my riding that has best chance of beating Metlege. But Halifax being Halifax I'm pretty much pissing into the wind.

 

[Lumber]

At this point I don't want anymore JT lead government.

As for PP I don't see many people poking holes in him just throwing proverbial stones because they don't like him for personal reasons it seems. And that's fair enough as well I suppose.

It's not his policies, and it's not even that I think he's a weasel. It's that I feel he is creating an environment where extremists feel emboldened to talk/act, just like Trump did in the states. I would rather live in a country where my disposable income is less but people treat each other with dignity and respect than a country where my taxes are lower but people feel safe verbally attacking those they disagree with.

Oh, but as far policies go, I hate his desire to see the CBC done away with. You seriously want to have our only source of news be self-interested private industry?