• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

US Election: 2016

Jarnhamar said:
As long as the Presidency is now about race and gender they have to pull out all the stops and run a Transgendered Native American who was adopted and is in a serious committed relationship but not tied down by patriarch marriage ideas.

Funny. My wife is waiting for them to elect their first Jewish president. Doesn't care which gender. Doesn't care which party.  :)

Although, 71% of Jewish people voted Democrat, and 24% voted Republican.
 
mariomike said:
As long as we are speculating into the future, what if the Democrats run an African-American for president, in 2020?

The shine is off that turd now, even Black American activists noted that the "community organizer" never visited an inner city black neighbourhood once after getting elected to POTUS.  Black politicians do historically little for their poor co-racial communities once elected, just the white politicians.  The only real difference between politicians of any race, stripe or religion is where they appeal for their votes on election day, the rest of the time it is graft as usual. 
 
Chris Pook said:
FJAG

That doesn't define conservatism - that defines liberalism - as Gladstone would have defined it, and Laurier would have accepted it.

Just because Lloyd George co-opted the Liberal party for the socialists, until the real socialists of Labour forced the liberals into the Conservative party does not make liberals conservatives.

And as for the GOP being conservatives - they are not so much conservatives as they are non-progressives.

I have always considered myself a conservative and I put the emphasis on my beliefs in the following portions of that quote:

... conservatism is defined as embracing limited government, displaying a rational, skeptical and moderate temperament and believing in the priority of the moral order...

... to balance ambition with ambition through a divided government (executive, legislative and judicial) ... assuming that every branch of government is both dedicated to the common good and jealous of its own power...

... should encourage healthy self-examination and a suspicion of all forms of fanaticism. All of us have things to learn, even from our political opponents. The truth is out there, but it is generally broken into pieces and scattered across the human experience. We only reassemble it through listening and civil communication...

... conservatives believe that a just society depends on the moral striving of finite and fallen creatures who treat each other with a respect and decency that laws can encourage but not enforce. Such virtues, often rooted in faith, are what turn families and communities into the nurseries of citizenship. These institutions not only shape good people, they inculcate the belief that humans have a dignity that, while often dishonored, can never be effaced....

It's the first line about limited government; rational, skeptical and moderate temperament; and the priority of the moral order that sets the overarching principles for me.

I agree with you entirely with respect to the GOP having become non-progressive.

For me the moral component does not (and in fact should not) be rooted in faith; it should be based on fundamental concepts of common decency and not a polyglot of 1,500 to 4,000 year old agrarian superstitions. The GOP had already turned to a base that not only does not want to progress but wants to regress everyone to its model of an "ideal society" by pushing fundamentalist Christianity into politics (vis homosexuality, abortion, anti-Muslim etc), a philosophy which is personally unacceptable to me even though I continue to believe in small government, scepticism and a moral order. They have now been joined by a new movement that wants to regress to an economic post-WWII American ideal that is probably no longer viable.

My second area of concern is that for conservatives scepticism should be universal (all notions should follow the "I'm from Missouri-- prove it" concept) but instead it has become very one-sided to the point where opposing ideas are automatically rejected as "lies", regardless of how detailed or convincing the proof is, while statements that support their own beliefs or prejudices are automatically endowed with "truth" regardless of how inane or blatantly false they are.

If I was a Liberal, this whole Trump thing wouldn't cause me any concern. I'd retreat into my little shell and work hard to get out the Liberal vote in the next election. The fact that I'm a conservative (and Conservative) who is seeing my own belief system being hijacked by people who will take it to an extreme where I don't want to go, is what is freaking me out. The only thing they and I have left in common is our shared belief in limited government and that will forever keep me out of the Liberal and NDP camps.

:subbies:
 
I think you and I are not dissimilar - except that you expect words to mean things.  Presumably a failing associated with your profession.

My read of history suggests to me that Deacon Dodgson had it right and words mean exactly what you want them to mean - it is far better, in my view to look at the concepts.  In point of fact I don't accept any institutional label because the institution can be hijacked to serve the interests of those who are disadvantaged by the institution.

The label is only as good as the last advertisement or the last party platform.

As to the faith bit - I am at variance with you there.  I am of the opinion that I don't care what somebody believes so long as they believe.  In my opinion, again, it gives that person more of a stake in the consequences of their decisions.
 
One does not have to be religious to be less than comfortable with homosexuality, especially the over-the-top blatant variety, disagree with abortion, or see great harm in allowing uncontrolled immigration by huge numbers of anybody - Muslims, Mexicans, or whatever.

Abortion is an inefficient form of birth control at best, murder at worst, distressing, later in life, to at least some of the women who opt for it, and unfair to the victims; I also find many of the proponents to be hypocritical: they claim that they should have complete control over their bodies, but then claim full control over another's by killing it. Late-term abortions are particularly abhorrent, especially partial-birth abortions.
 
Lightguns said:
The shine is off that turd now, even Black American activists noted that the "community organizer" never visited an inner city black neighbourhood once after getting elected to POTUS.  Black politicians do historically little for their poor co-racial communities once elected, just the white politicians.  The only real difference between politicians of any race, stripe or religion is where they appeal for their votes on election day, the rest of the time it is graft as usual.

I read that after President Obama had been POTUS for four years ( 2008 - 2012 ),

in the 2012 election,

Washington (CNN) – A new Census Bureau report shows a higher percentage of African-Americans than whites voted in a presidential election for the first time in history last year during the matchup between President Obama and GOP nominee Mitt Romney.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/09/blacks-outvoted-whites-in-2012-the-first-time-on-record/

Of course, there was no African-American candidate in 2016. Be interesting to see if there is one in 2020!









 
Too bad Colin Powell didn't get more votes...a lot more... :nod:
 
Good2Golf said:
Too bad Colin Powell didn't get more votes...a lot more... :nod:

2016 presidential election

Powell has been very vocal on the state of the Republican party. Speaking at a Washington Ideas forum in early October 2015, he warned the audience that the Republican party had begun a move to the fringe right, lessening the chances of a Republican White House in the future. He also remarked on Republican presidential contender Donald Trump's statements regarding immigrants, noting that there were many immigrants working in Trump hotels. [98]

In March 2016, Powell denounced the "nastiness" of the 2016 Republican primaries during an interview on CBS This Morning. He compared the race to a "reality show", and stated that the campaign had gone "into the mud". [99]

In August 2016, Powell accused the Clinton campaign of trying to pin Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton's email controversy on him. Speaking to People magazine, Powell said, "The truth is, she was using [the private email server] for a year before I sent her a memo telling her what I did." [100]

On September 13, 2016, emails were obtained that revealed Powell's private communications regarding both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Powell privately reiterated his comments regarding Clinton's email scandal, writing, "I have told Hillary's minions repeatedly that they are making a mistake trying to drag me in, yet they still try," and complaining that "Hillary’s mafia keeps trying to suck me into it" in another email.[101] In another email discussing Clinton's controversy, Powell noted that she should have told everyone what she did "two years ago", and said that she has not "been covering herself with glory." Writing on the 2012 Benghazi attack controversy surrounding Clinton, Powell said to then U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice, "Benghazi is a stupid witch hunt." Commenting on Clinton in a general sense, Powell mused that "“Everything [Clinton] touches she kind of screws up with hubris", and in another email stated "I would rather not have to vote for her, although she is a friend I respect."[102]

Powell referred to Donald Trump as a "national disgrace", with "no sense of shame". He wrote candidly of Trump's role in the birther movement, which he referred to as "racist". Powell suggested that the media ignore Trump, saying, "To go on and call him an idiot just emboldens him." The emails were obtained by the media as the result of a hack.[103]

Powell endorsed Clinton on October 25, 2016, stating it was "because I think she's qualified, and the other gentleman is not qualified."[104]

Despite not running running in the election, Powell received three electoral votes for president from faithless electors in Washington who had pledged to vote for Clinton, coming in third overall.[105] After Barack Obama, Powell was only the second African American to receive electoral votes in a presidential election. He was also the first Republican since 1984 to receive electoral votes from Washington in a presidential election, as well as the first Republican African American to do so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Powell#2016_presidential_election

 
Wasn't Powell one of the US generals salivatating over "proof"  of wmd's in Iraq?  The ol red marker circle on a shitty quality aireal photo?
 
Jarnhamar said:
Wasn't Powell one of the US generals salivatating over "proof"  of wmd's in Iraq?  The ol red marker circle on a shitty quality aireal photo?

He was Secretary of State at the time.
 
Chris Pook said:
The label is only as good as the last advertisement or the last party platform.

As to the faith bit - I am at variance with you there.  I am of the opinion that I don't care what somebody believes so long as they believe.  In my opinion, again, it gives that person more of a stake in the consequences of their decisions.

As to the label thing, I can buy into that. My conservatism leads me to believe that labels and platforms shouldn't change without due and deliberate contemplation. That's not the way it goes anymore and I'm coming to accept that but don't like it.

As to faith see below.

Loachman said:
One does not have to be religious to be less than comfortable with homosexuality, especially the over-the-top blatant variety, disagree with abortion, or see great harm in allowing uncontrolled immigration by huge numbers of anybody - Muslims, Mexicans, or whatever.

Abortion is an inefficient form of birth control at best, murder at worst, distressing, later in life, to at least some of the women who opt for it, and unfair to the victims; I also find many of the proponents to be hypocritical: they claim that they should have complete control over their bodies, but then claim full control over another's by killing it. Late-term abortions are particularly abhorrent, especially partial-birth abortions.

I'm with you on unrestricted immigration especially as I'm a legal immigrant to this country.

As to homosexuality, I find that my attitudes have changed dramatically since my youth. In large part that came with my kids being band kids in high school with a number of homosexual friends. The more time I spent talking with them the more I saw them as ordinary kids trying hard to live a normal and happy life. I don't discuss their sex life with them anymore than I do with men who want to discuss the details about the woman they took to bed the night before. I find that makes me uncomfortable as well. The point though is that it's not just the feeling of discomfort that you describe but actual discrimination for services and employment etc much of which is faith based (and not just Christian)

Let's just disagree about abortion. In a perfect world where everyone has access to proper sex education and birth control or wasn't raped, or didn't get drunk or get pressured into unprotected sex, abortions wouldn't be necessary. Since we don't have any of that perfection there will continue to be a need for it. As to whether or not a woman may regret it later in life, well I think the decision should be hers and not some male majority legislatures. The main problem we have with discussing the concept of abortion is that notwithstanding the vast debate and rhetoric on both sides we have no agreement as to when a fetus becomes a person. Abortion has been practised for thousands of years (both herbally and mechanically). It wasn't considered murder by Catholics until Pope Sixtus V in the late 1500s declared it such and even then, it was not vigorously enforce until the late 1800s.

I obviously have an issue with religions (yup pretty much all of them--I don't discriminate). It's not that I believe that religion should not be a protected human right and that people should not have a right to practice the religion of their choice. They should certainly have that right so that if a woman has a religious belief that she ought not to have an abortion then so be it for that woman. My problem is that when people use their religious ideology to deny other people their basic human rights or try to impose those beliefs on others who want no part of it. Governments and laws IMHO should be purely secular.

For me human rights should be two tiered. The top tier should be protections based on characteristics that an individual has no control over such as skin colour, nationality of birth, ethnic origin, gender, age, sexual orientation, mental or physical disability and the like. The second, and subordinate tier would include those over which the person has a choice such as religious preferences, political preferences, family status and the like. People should be absolutely free from any discrimination based on the top tier grounds but, while free to engage as they see fit in the second tier, should not be able to use those beliefs to restrict others' first tier rights.

Boy am I ever getting  :off topic: but to bring it back a bit, my concern remains the same. The conservative faction that I have always belonged to has become in the US and may be becoming in Canada a proponent of faith based (read fundamentalist Christian) policies that they insist everyone in the country ought to adhere to or, at the very least, believe that everyone should give them licence to discriminate against anyone that they believe contravenes their social mores.

:stirpot:

 
I think each and everyone of us has enough issues to deal with that dictating to others should be a non issue.

Most of this stuff, on a scale of 1 - 10 (with 10 being death) rarely gets above a 1.... :2c:
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443188/donald-trumps-cunning-animal-instinct?utm_source=jolt&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Jolt%2012/20/2016&utm_term=Jolt

The Animal Cunning and Instinct of Donald Trump

by Victor Davis Hanson December 20, 2016 4:00 AM

He grasped that what voters cared about were the very issues politicos were disdainfully ignoring.

The American middle classes, the Chinese, and Vladimir Putin have never been convinced that Ivy League degrees, vast Washington experience, and cultural sophistication necessarily translate into national wisdom. Trump instead relies more on instinct and operates from cunning - and we will soon see whether we should redefine "wisdom."

But for now, for example, we have never heard a presidential candidate say such a thing as "We love our miners" - not "we like" miners, but "we love" them. And not just any miners, but "our" miners, as if, like "our vets," the working people of our moribund economic regions were unique and exceptional people, neither clingers nor irredeemables. In Trump's gut formulation, miners certainly did not deserve "to be put out of business" by Hillary Clinton, as if they were little more than the necessary casualties of the war against global warming. For Trump, miners were not the human equivalent of the 4,200 bald eagles that the Obama administration recently assured the wind turbine industry can be shredded for the greater good of alternate energy and green profiteering.

In other words, Trump instinctively saw the miners of West Virginia - and by extension the working-class populations of states such as Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Ohio - as emblematic of the forgotten man, in a way few of his Republican rivals, much less Hilary Clinton, grasped.

No other candidate talked as constantly about jobs, "fair" trade, illegal immigration, and political correctness - dead issues to most other pollsters and politicos. Rivals, Democratic and Republican alike, had bought into the electoral matrix of Barack Obama: slicing the electorate into identity-politics groups and arousing them to register and vote in record numbers against "them" - a fossilized, supposedly crude, illiberal, and soon-to-be-displaced white working class.

For Democrats that meant transferring intact Obama's record numbers of minority voters to a 68-year-old multimillionaire white woman; for Republicans, it meant pandering with a kinder, softer but still divisive identity-politics message. Trump instinctively saw a different demographic. And even among minority groups, he detected a rising distaste for being patronized, especially by white, nasal-droning, elite pajama-boy nerds whose loud progressivism did not disguise their grating condescension.

Trump Dismissed as a Joke

Yet even after destroying the Clinton Dynasty, the Bush-family aristocracy, the Obama legacy, and 16 more-seasoned primary rivals, Trump was dismissed by observers as being mostly a joke, idiotic and reckless. Such a dismissal is a serious mistake, because what Trump lacks in traditionally defined sophistication and awareness, he more than makes up for in shrewd political cunning of a sort not seen since the regnum of Franklin Roosevelt. Take a few recent examples.

Candidate Donald Trump was roundly hounded by the political and media establishment for suggesting that the election might be "rigged." Trump was apparently reacting to old rumors of voting-machine irregularities. (In fact, in about a third of blue Detroit's precincts, to take just one example, more votes this election were recorded than there were registered voters.)

Or perhaps Trump channeled reports that there was an epidemic of invalid or out-of-date voter registrations. (Controversially, the normally staid Pew Charitable Trust found that 2.4 million voter registrations were no longer accurate or were significantly inaccurate.)

Or maybe he fanned fears that illegal aliens were voting. (Another controversial study from two professors at Old Dominion suggested that over 6 percent of non-citizens may have voted in 2008; and the president on the eve of the election, in his usual wink-and-nod fashion, assured the illegal-alien community that there would be no federal interest in examining immigration status in connection with voting status.)

Or perhaps Trump was convinced that the media and the Democratic establishment worked hand in hand to warp elections and media coverage. (The WikiLeaks trove revealed that media operatives leaked primary debate questions and sent their stories to the Clinton campaign for fact-checking before publication, as two successive DNC chairpersons resigned in disgrace for purportedly sabotaging the primary-challenge efforts of Bernie Sanders.)

For all this and more, Trump was roundly denounced by the status quo as a buffoon who cherry-picked scholarly work to offer puerile distortions. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama both expressed outrage at Trump's supposedly incendiary suggestions of voter irregularity, alleging that Trump was either delusional or insurrectionary or both.

But was he?

Or did he sense that his candidacy was touching off an "any means necessary" effort of unethical progressives to warp the law and custom for purportedly noble ends? After the election, that supposition was more than confirmed.

The Joke's on Them

Trump's enemies have now proved him a Nostradamus. Fourth-party candidate Jill Stein, joined by the remains of the Clinton campaign, asked for a recount of the 2016 election, but only in those states that provided Trump his electoral majority and only on the assumption that there was zero chance that Stein's candidacy would be affected by any conceivable new vote figure. Though perhaps, Trump's critics wished, the recount would resurrect the candidacy of Stein's stalking horse Hillary Clinton.

Then members of the Clinton campaign and powerful Democrats joined an effort to pressure electors of the Electoral College to defy their state-mandated duty to reflect the vote totals of their states and instead refrain from voting for Donald Trump. That was all but a neo-Confederate, insurrectionary act that sought to nullify the spirit of the Constitution and the legal statues of many states - part and parcel of new surreal progressive embrace of states'-rights nullification that we have not seen since the days of George Wallace.

Trump then earned greater outrage when he questioned the CIA's sudden announcement, via leaks, that the Russians had hacked Clinton-campaign communication. When Trump said that the newfound post-election "consensus" on Russian hacking was improper, unreliable, and suggestive of an overly politicized intelligence apparatus, he once again drew universal ire - proof positive that he lacked a "presidential" temperament.

Yet our intelligence agencies do have a history of politicization. The 2006 national intelligence assessment at the height of the Iraq insurgency and of George W. Bush's unpopularity oddly claimed that Iran had stopped nuclear-weapons work as early as 2003 - a finding that, if plausible, would probably have rendered irrelevant all of Obama's frantic efforts just three years later to conclude an Iran deal. And our intelligence agencies' record at assessment is not exactly stellar, given that it missed the Pakistan and Indian nuclear-bomb programs, Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, and the status of Saddam's WMD program.

There is still no solid proof of deliberate Russian cyber interference intended to aid Donald Trump. Loretta Lynch is skeptical that Russia tried to help the Trump campaign. A Washington Post story alleging that the RNC was hacked was based on myth. WikiLeaks, for what it is worth, insists its source was not Russian. And we now learn that intelligence authorities are refusing to testify in closed session to the House Intelligence Committee about the evidence that prompted their odd post-election announcements - announcements that contradict their earlier pre-election suggestions that Russian hacking was not affecting the election.

One possibility is that the likelihood of a Clinton victory spurred the administration and the likely president-elect to suggest that the election process remained sacrosanct and immune from all tampering - while the completely unforeseen loss to Trump abruptly motivated them to readjust such assessments.

Trump has a habit of offering off-the-cuff unconventional observations - often unsubstantiated by verbal footnotes and in hyperbolic fashion. Then he is blasted for ignorance and recklessness by bipartisan grandees. Only later, and quietly, he is often taken seriously, but without commensurate public acknowledgement.

A few more examples. Candidate Trump blasted the "free-loading" nature of NATO, wondered out loud why it was not fighting ISIS or at least Islamic terrorism, and lamented the inordinate American contribution and the paucity of commensurate allied involvement. Pundits called that out as heresy, at least for a few weeks - until scholars, analysts, and politicos offered measured support for Trump's charges. Europeans, shocked by gambling in Casablanca, scrambled to assure that they were upping their defense contributions and drawing the NATO line at the Baltic States.

President-elect Trump generated even greater outrage in the aftermath of the election when he took a call from the Taiwanese president. Pundits exploded. Foreign policy hands were aghast. Did this faker understand the dimensions of his blunder? Was he courting nuclear war?

Trump shrugged, as reality again intruded: Why sell billions of dollars in weaponry to Taiwan if you cannot talk to its president? Are arms shipments less provocative than receiving a single phone call? Why talk "reset" to the thuggish murderous Castro brothers but not to a democratically elected president? Why worry what China thinks, given that it has swallowed Tibet and now created artificial islands in the South China Sea, in defiance of all maritime custom, law, and tradition?

Two weeks later after the call, analysts - true to the pattern - meekly agreed that such a phone call was hardly incendiary. Perhaps, they mused, it was overdue and had a certain logic. Perhaps it had, after all, sent a valuable message to China that the U.S. may now appear as unpredictable to China as China has appeared to the U.S. Perhaps the Taiwan call had, after all, sent a valuable message to China that the U.S. may now appear as unpredictable to China as China has appeared to the U.S.

More recently, Trump asked in a tweet why we should take back a sea drone stolen by China from under the nose of a U.S. ship. Aside from questions of whether the drone is now compromised, damaged, or bugged, would anyone be happy that a thief appeared days later at the door, offering back the living room's stolen loot, on the condition to just let bygones be bygones - at least until the next heist?

On most issues, Trump sensed what was verbiage and what was doable - and what was the indefensible position of his opponents. Prune away Trump's hyperbole, and we see that his use of the illegal immigration issue is another good example. Finishing the existing southern border wall is sane and sober. "Making Mexico pay for it" can quietly be accomplished, at least in part, by simply taxing the over $50 billion in remittances sent to Mexico and Latin America by those in the U.S. who cannot prove legal residence or citizenship. Ending sanctuary cities will win majority support: Who wants to make the neo-Confederate argument that local jurisdictions can override U.S. law - and, indeed, who would make that secessionist case on behalf of violent criminal aliens?

Deporting illegal-alien law-breakers - or those who are fit and able but without any history of work - is likewise the sort of position that the Left cannot, for political reasons, easily oppose. As for the rest, after closing off the border, Trump will likely shrug and allow illegal aliens who are working, who have established a few years of residence, and who are non-criminal to pay a fine, learn English, and get a green card - perhaps relegating the entire quagmire of illegal immigration to a one-time American aberration that has diminishing demographic and political relevance.

Trump the Brawler

Finally, Trump sensed that the proverbial base was itching for a bare-knuckles fighter. They wanted any kind of brawler who would not play by the Marquess of Queensberry rules of 2008 and 2012 that had doomed Romney and McCain, who, fairly or not, seemed to wish to lose nobly rather than win in black-and-blue fashion, and who were sometimes more embarrassed than proud of their base. Trump again foresaw that talking trash in crude tones would appeal to middle Americans as much as Obama's snarky and ego-driven, but otherwise crude trash-talking delighted his coastal elites. So Trump said the same kinds of things to Hillary Clinton that she, in barely more measured tones, had often said to others but never expected anyone to say out loud to her. And the more the media cried foul, the more Trump knew that voters would cry "long overdue."

We can expect that Trump's impulsiveness and electronically fed braggadocio will often get him into trouble. No doubt his tweets will continue to offend.

But lost amid the left-wing hatred of Trump and the conservative Never Trump condescension is that so far he has shattered American political precedents by displaying much more political cunning and prescience than have his political opponents and most observers.

Key is his emperor-has-no-clothes instinct that what is normal and customary in Washington was long ago neither sane nor necessary. And so far, his candidacy has not only redefined American politics but also recalibrated the nature of insight itself - leaving the wise to privately wonder whether they were ever all that wise after all.

- NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Savior Generals.
 
Vivid Maps depictions of US election results:

http://www.vividmaps.com/2016/11/2016-us-presidential-election-results.html

http://www.vividmaps.com/2016/12/trumpland-and-clinton-archipelago.html#more

These show how small parts of the US would control the much larger rest were the presidential election decided by majority vote.

Keep in mind how Northern Ontario's very real interests and concerns are ignored by the Toronto-centric Wynne government and Western Canada's very real interests and concerns are ignored by the Ontario/Quebec-centric Trudeau government.

The US system attempts to balance population-based interests with regional interests by having more population-proportional representation in the House of Representatives and equal state (regional) representation in the Senate - wherein every state, no matter its population, has the same number of Senators (two per state). The Electoral College is another form of balance.
 
Maybe this should be in the Canadian politics in 2016 thread, but ...

Loachman, how do you come to the conclusion that the Trudeau government is Ontario/Quebec centric? Personally, I think the Trudeau government is only Trudeau/Selfie-centric.

In fact, other than bringing in 50,000 refugees, rolling back a few "mean" conservative measures on science, crime and punishment or electoral laws, on one hand, and adoption of a very few pan-Canadian laws, such as the right to die legislation, the only real action of this government so far has been to actually authorize one pipeline - in the West.

So we can't say they are one region centric more than the other: in one year, they spoke a lot but haven't done anything, really!

P.S.: Watch out in the US, though. I am willing to bet that  president Trump will do more things in his first six months than most peacetime presidents do in four years. Some will like it, others won't - but change is-a-coming fast.


 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
Loachman, how do you come to the conclusion that the Trudeau government is Ontario/Quebec centric?

They care only about those areas from where they derive the bulk of their votes - but only in so far as they get those votes. I agree with the rest of your post.

Donald Trump the misogynistic, racist, anti-Semitic, cold-hearted monster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAM7JKajBlw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SoBUZl3Hoc

No publicity sought for either of these actions, just doing the right thing.

One president visibly cares about his people and one does not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4UzvRR4tO0
 
Loachman said:
Keep in mind how Northern Ontario's very real interests and concerns are ignored by the Toronto-centric Wynne government < snip >

That seems very unfair!

Perhaps it's time for the GTA to go it's own way? Take it's tax dollars with it. I would support that.

Problem is, it would require a constitutional amendment to separate from Ontario,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_the_Province_of_Toronto#Constitutional_amendment

Michael Gravelle, the Minister of Northern Development and Mines, said "I look at it from the perspective of would this be good for Northern Ontario . . . and I don‘t think it would be.”
http://www.liquisearch.com/proposal_for_the_province_of_toronto/history

I worked for the City of Toronto. But, we had to take our operational orders from Queen's Park. That people in rural Ontario were entitled to the same standard of emergency medical service as people in Metro.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard one of our departmental commanders or chiefs say, "Because Mayberry says so. That's why!"  :)

Meanwhile, if people from rural Ontario hated Metro so much, it surprised me that so many wanted to join our emergency services. To serve and protect our community, instead of their own.
We had a Residency Requirement when I joined, but the province said it was unfair to out of town applicants and had it lifted.

By way of comparison, in the 2016 US election, Rural areas: 34% voted Democrat  62% voted Republican.

As in Ontario, there seems to be an urban / rural political divide.

Maybe a racial one too?

Even though the only candidates to chose from were white, 88% of African-American voters voted Democratic, and only 8% voted Republican in 2016.
I would not be surprised if there is an African-American presidential candidate in 2020.













 
mariomike said:
By way of comparison, in the 2016 US election, Rural areas: 34% voted Democrat  62% voted Republican.

As in Ontario, there seems to be an urban / rural political divide.

Maybe a racial one too?

Even though the only candidates to chose from were white, 88% of African-American voters voted Democratic, and only 8% voted Republican in 2016.

I would not be surprised if there is an African-American presidential candidate in 2020.

General Collin Powell was considered to be a viable and potentially unbeatable moderate Republican candidate in 1996, but bowed out due to his "lack of passion" for electoral politics. There was also a movement to draft Dr Condeleeza Rice as a Presidential candidate in 2008 as well, although she never expressed interest in the position. Both these potential candidates were being touted for the "content of their character rather than the colour of their skin", which may explain why there were large Republican constituencies pulling for them. Dr Ben Carson was also a Republican candidate in 2016, and is now nominated to serve as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. So that boat has already sailed.

The incoming administration is certainly changing the Republican party's approach to many things, and there may be a considerable difference in how all Americans vote in 2018 and 2020. However, unless there are some drastic events between now and 2024, I don't see President Trump stepping aside (and if he does it will be for Mike Pence) and the Democrat leadership is pretty much fossilized white politicians for the foreseeable future as well.










 
Thucydides said:
However, unless there are some drastic events between now and 2024, I don't see President Trump stepping aside (and if he does it will be for Mike Pence) and the Democrat leadership is pretty much fossilized white politicians for the foreseeable future as well.

Speaking of "fossilized white politicians",  you do realise that Mr. Trump is the oldest President-elect in history?

All we know for sure is that every time an African-American candidate runs for POTUS, they win. By a significant margin.

This was written almost four years ago,

"Forget 2016. The Pivotal Year In Politics May Be 2020
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/25/170240786/forget-2016-the-pivotal-year-in-politics-may-be-2020

"In 2012, Obama won 80 percent of the nonwhite vote but just 39 percent of the white vote."

"The demographic makeup of the United States will shift dramatically in the next eight years." ( This was written in Jan., 2013. He is referring to the 2020 election. )

"because our voting patterns are highly aligned by race," Taylor says.

Just have to keep an eye on the 2020 thread!  :)






 
If US electoral politics is devolving into racial identity politics (as some "Alt-Right" thinkers believe), then everyone should be forewarned that whites still make up the largest single voting block in the United States. Openly pushing racial identity politics may well have driven many white voters to conclude they "should" vote as a racial block, another parting gift of the Obama administration's divisive racial politics and the growth of race based "identity" politics in general.

I'm still seeing the political divide as being more urban/rural and populist/elite in nature, so we will see how the next four years unfold.
 
Back
Top