The Khadr Thread

[Fishbone Jones]

Good. He's plead guilty, the Judge has accepted the plea and he has waived to right to appeal. Now he's fully at the mercy of the court.

The great thing is, that Canada hasn't accepted, or negotiated, the deal. We can just ignore it and let the Americans deal with it.

Now his whiney mouthpiece is trying to blame us for not caring:

Khadr let down by Canada, says lawyer
  Postmedia News October 25, 2010  Omar Khadr's Canadian lawyer charged Sunday that the "Canadian people" -- in addition to the Canadian government -- have let down the Canadian-born terror suspect.

Speaking on the eve of Khadr's return to a military court, Dennis Edney insisted that there was, as of Sunday morning, no signed plea deal between the United States and the Toronto native.

Canada has -- publicly at least -- refused to agree to a U.S. proposal that, sources say, would see Khadr apply to be transferred to a Canadian prison in a year's time.

According to the sources, the transfer would be part of a wider plea deal in which Khadr would admit to the war-crimes charges he faces in exchange for an eight-year "cap" on his sentence -- with just the first year to be served in U.S. custody, and the rest in Canada.

"People show empathy," Edney said of Canadians' reaction to Khadr's life story, which for the past eight years has seen him held at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

"(After) the fact, nothing happens. I feel, not only the Canadian government, but the Canadian people have let down a citizen, a most vulnerable citizen."

Edney and others spoke in terms of the trial being set to resume today -- instead of his pleading guilty.

"If the Canadian government is not prepared to provide behind the scenes at high levels (an) assurance that it is going to give Omar Khadr and his team the necessary confidence that the bulk of any prison time coming out of this deal can and will be served in Canada, I would imagine there is a very good chance the whole thing would collapse," said Alex Neve, secretary general of Amnesty International Canada.

"The calculus as to how Omar Khadr and his lawyers are going to weigh different sentencing options if obviously between them," said Neve.

Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/news/world/Khadr+down+Canada+says+lawyer/3721171/story.html#ixzz13NpNAfRW


At the end of the day, at this point, it's up to the US to deal with it as it should be.

 

[krustyrl]

Do we really need/want this self-confessed murdering terrorist back in our country after the year is up in GBay.?  Ultimately it's not up to John Q Citizen, but this guy just confessed to killing a NATO Troop and terrorist activity against coalition forces .

Where could this be headed when he is done serving ? Anyone have their crystal ball polished up.?

 

[George Wallace]

Well.  A precedence has been set with a Canadian born Somali being deported to Somalia.  I suppose the same can be done here with him being deported to Pakistan or Afghanistan.

 

[krustyrl]

I for one would hope that is/was a precedent... esp in this case.

 

[rnkelly]

He was a kid when it happened, 15 yrs old.  He's been "detained" in Cuba and Canada let the US try him.  This is their decision, I think we should respect it. 

Who knows how this Canadian kid got involved but I'd say in the fog of war it's pretty hard to judge.  Call him an insurgent, combattant, non-legal combattant, terrorist etc, he was still 15 yrs.  The coalition has occupied their country and understandably some of them see it as they're being invaded.  I think the Judge knows what he's doing and took things into consideration. 

We can't try him again, that wouldn't be fair (double jeopardy).

Deporting him after his sentence, should definitely be considered.

Is he a risk after release, definitely.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Deal, or no deal to return?  Who do you believe?

The Canadian government has agreed to a clause in Omar Khadr's plea bargain that says he will be returned to Canada after a year, his Canadian lawyer says.

Khadr pleaded guilty Monday to murder, attempted murder, supporting terrorism, conspiracy and spying. His lawyer, Dennis Edney, said he is confident the Canadian government will honour its part of the bargain.

"Mr. Khadr pleaded guilty this morning …in exchange for the Canadian government agreeing to repatriate him back to Canada after one year," Edney said. "Canada's language is sufficiently satisfactory to uphold Canada to its position, that it will take Omar Khadr back after one year."

Edney said the lawyers received the note from Canadian government Sunday afternoon.

"We have diplomatic notes … which set out Canada's position and set out the United States' position," Edney added.

Those notes will be released later this week, along with the specifics of Khadr's plea deal.

The sentence in the plea deal is still a secret until Khadr's seven-member military jury hands down its own sentence for Khadr.

It's been reported the deal is for Khadr to serve eight more years in prison, with the last seven to be served in Canada.

U.S. Navy Capt. John Murphy, chief prosecutor for the office of military commissions, confirmed Khadr will be going back to Canada after one year as per the plea bargain.

But he won't be free.

"Following one year, if there is a balance of a sentence, Omar Khadr doesn't go back to Canada as a free man," Murphy said. "He goes back to serve whatever remains of his sentence within the Canadian penal system and under Canadian law."

So far the Conservative government isn't commenting on any deal. Prime Minister Stephen Harper is travelling in the Ukraine.

“This matter remains between Omar Khadr and the United States government,” spokesman Dimitri Soudas told QMI Agency ....

More from QMI here.

 

[GAP]

he has to make it to release first.....that may be difficult if he's in general pop, and his reputation has preceeded him..........

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit more from the New York Times - highlight mine:

A former child soldier being held at the military prison on Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, pleaded guilty on Monday to terrorism-related charges, averting the awkward prospect that he would be the first defendant to stand trial before a military commission under the Obama administration.

Omar Khadr, 24, a Canadian citizen, admitted to a military judge that he threw a grenade that killed an American soldier during a July 2002 firefight and that he had planted 10 roadside bombs for Al Qaeda. Mr. Khadr, born in Toronto, was 15 years old when he was captured in Afghanistan.

In exchange for pleading guilty to five charges — including murder in violation of the law of war, supporting terrorism, and spying — Mr. Khadr was spared the risk of a life sentence. A panel of seven military officers will now decide how long his prison sentence will be.

But his plea agreement is believed to cap the time at eight years, on top of the eight he has already been in custody. In addition, the United States has promised to support his eventual application to transfer to Canadian custody after he serves at least one more year in Guantánamo.

(....)

The plea deal followed a flurry of complex negotiations, including a side deal between the United States and Canada. Reached on Saturday, it says that the Canadian government will treat the results of a military commission trial in the same way as a regular civilian court’s, under a prisoner transfer treaty.

It remains unclear, however, whether the government of the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, which has declined to seek Mr. Khadr’s repatriation, would accept any bid by Mr. Khadr to serve out the remainder of his sentence in Canada ....

The yellow bits suggest to me that "the U.S. applying to move Khadr north"=/="Canada is automatically taking him". 

The text of the "Treaty between Canada and the United States of America on the execution of penal sentence" available here.

 

[hold_fast]

I've been really torn on the Khadr trial.
Here's my  :2c:, take it for what it's worth. Don't be offended - it's my opinion.

1) I don't understand how anyone can be charged with murder in a war. That's what war is.
2) He's either a) a child soldier who killed a NATO member; or b) pleaded guilty under a plea deal that prevents the possibility of a life sentence, which makes the circumstances murky at best
3) Sending him back to Afghanistan or Pakistan is a moronic idea. You really want to put him back where he can be cornered and recruited? I'd rather have him in Canada, where he'll most likely be secretly wiretapped and followed everywhere for the rest of his life.

Lastly, this...

No doubt. And I've killed people his age attacking us. In regards to being a "poor child" he was in my eyes. Any child brainwashed into that life has little choice. While you may not see/feel the need to feel sorry for the wasted life I certainly do. Put in the same situations he was I have little understanding what I or we would have done. And can't begin to comprehend it.

Having said that I also feel bad for other brainwashed farmers who couldnt point out canada on a map who I have killed with an AK in their hands; however I truly enjoyed taking their lifes...as they took my friends and comrades. There is a difference in having empathy for people, and being a peacenik. I believe Omar should recieve capital punishment for what he done. It's just saddening to see such waste of life that political Islam and Jihad is creating.

Maybe it's time to look at our immigration policies that prevents these people from living here. Any father who would teach such hate doesnt belong in a western society.

...Made me puke in my mouth and want to log off permanently from this site. While I know that opinion is out there, the idea of enjoying killing someone is disgusting and along the lines of the very enemy you stand against.

 

[ModlrMike]

I've been really torn on the Khadr trial.
Here's my  :2c:, take it for what it's worth. Don't be offended - it's my opinion.

1) I don't understand how anyone can be charged with murder in a war. That's what war is.

He killed another while not part of a uniformed, recognized force. That's murder, even in a theatre of war.

2) He's either a) a child soldier who killed a NATO member; or b) pleaded guilty under a plea deal that prevents the possibility of a life sentence, which makes the circumstances murky at best

He's not a child soldier according to the UN Convention. He had passed his 15th birthday at the time of his capture.

3) Sending him back to Afghanistan or Pakistan is a moronic idea. You really want to put him back where he can be cornered and recruited? I'd rather have him in Canada, where he'll most likely be secretly wiretapped and followed everywhere for the rest of his life.

We can't send him back. Whether we like it or not, he was born in Canada and remains a citizen.

 

[HavokFour]

No Khadr return deal in place: Cannon​

The Canadian government has not committed to repatriating Omar Khadr as part of the Guantanamo Bay prisoner's plea deal with U.S. authorities, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon says.

Cannon's comments on Thursday come despite defence lawyers insisting Canada has signed off on an agreement that would see the Toronto-born Khadr returned to Canadian custody after serving one year in the U.S. detention facility in Cuba.

"Any plea bargain was between Mr. Khadr's officials, his lawyers, as well as the American government," Cannon said in response to multiple questions on the Khadr case during a news conference in Ottawa.

"The government of Canada is not involved in that."

Read more...

 

[HavokFour]

Omar Khadr apologizes to widow​

Omar Khadr apologized Thursday to the widow of Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer, who was killed by Khadr's grenade in 2001, saying that he is sorry for the pain he caused the American soldier's family.

"I'm really, really sorry for the pain I caused you and your family," he said during his most extensive comments since his capture. "I wish I could do something that would take away your pain."

Khadr was speaking from the witness box at his U.S. military commission at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Khadr told his sentencing hearing that his biggest dream is to get out of the prison and that he wants to be a doctor.

He said he knows what pain is, and as a doctor he could help people with their pain.

Asked by his lawyer whether he still had any anger, he said no.

"I've had a lot of time to think about things," he said. "You're not going to gain anything from hate."

Khadr's apology was in an unsworn statement, which allowed him to address the court without facing questions from prosecutors.

Tabitha Speer, sitting in the front row, gripped the armrests of her chair during his comments, shaking her head as he spoke. When he stepped down and the jury left the room, she cried.

Read more...

An absolute pathetic display on his part. If he were sorry he'd have said it years ago. This is nothing but a bid to gain sympathy.

 

[hold_fast]

Or, you know, God forbid a prisoner actually be rehabilitated.

 

[George Wallace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEbzM2FUP9s

 

[aesop081]

1) I don't understand how anyone can be charged with murder in a war. That's what war is.

Educate yourself a little.........

3) Sending him back to Afghanistan or Pakistan is a moronic idea.

Its a perfect idea.

.. enjoying killing someone is disgusting and along the lines of the very enemy you stand against.

I was going to give you credit but then, you said this. If you cant figure why there will always be a difference between us and them, you should log off and never come back here.

 

[2 Cdo]

...Made me puke in my mouth and want to log off permanently from this site. While I know that opinion is out there, the idea of enjoying killing someone is disgusting and along the lines of the very enemy you stand against.

Our job sometimes involves killing our enemies and I for one have no problems with that, maybe it's time you rethought joining our little club. It's not always about peacekeeping and handing out candy. :

 

[rnkelly]

Educate yourself a little.........

Its a perfect idea.

I was going to give you credit but then, you said this. If you cant figure why there will always be a difference between us and them, you should log off and never come back here.

What's he going to educate himself about?  Just because we define terms like illegal combattants and insurgents doesn't mean anything to a people that see their country being invaded.  You do realize that NATO forces have committed atrocities as well right? 

The problem with deporting him is that we could possibly be sending him back to the battle for the other team.

What's the difference between us and them except for them being way less fortunate than us?

Honestly, I'd love to know because these are very complicated issues to me that you seem to understand very easily.

 

[krustyrl]

Speaking for myself and myself only, Kadr if he were to end up in Canada....needs to be punted.  Again , my opinion . 
Guilty = GTFO.! 
That also means out of my health plan, pension plan etc.  With any luck he can convince the rest of his AQ family to join him.! 


:2c:

 

[George Wallace]

What's he going to educate himself about?  Just because we define terms like illegal combattants and insurgents doesn't mean anything to a people that see their country being invaded. 

Toronto was invaded ?  ???

You do realize that NATO forces have committed atrocities as well right? 

You could argue that, but it is not what this topic is about.

The problem with deporting him is that we could possibly be sending him back to the battle for the other team.

Or we could let him and his family set up a Sleeper Cell in Toronto. 

What's the difference between us and them except for them being way less fortunate than us?

Don't kid yourself.  The tools of war are not cheap.  To run smuggling rings to make cash to smuggle in weapons and explosives cancels out any ideas that they are "less fortunate" than us.  It just tells us that they are more fanatical and not tolerant of any beliefs other than their own form of radical Islam.  Read some more of what they are.  Watch more news on what they are doing.  Don't just stick with CBC, CTV, CBS and the other North American media outlets.  Look at what is being said in Europe and on al jazzera.  Surf the Internet and get informed.

 

[aesop081]

What's he going to educate himself about?

International law would be a good place to start.

  You do realize that NATO forces have committed atrocities as well right? 

We dont go looking for inocent people to kill......maybe you realize that ?

The problem with deporting him is that we could possibly be sending him back to the battle for the other team.

I'm all for it. He can get what he deserves that way.

What's the difference between us and them except for them being way less fortunate than us?

They enjoy killing innocent people. We don't.