The current navy uniform

[FSTO]

Change I would like to see on the Navy Officers uniform:
8 buttons instead of 6 (C&PO's and the rates stay at 6)
Executive Curl
Navy Operations Badge on all peak caps and berets

Honestly how much would it cost to tailor 2 extra holes on the tunic, and make the curl. I watched the tailor in Esquimalt make me executive curl shoulder boards in about 15 minutes. 

 

[Stoker]

Change I would like to see on the Navy Officers uniform:
8 buttons instead of 6 (C&PO's and the rates stay at 6)
Executive Curl
Navy Operations Badge on all peak caps.

Honestly how much would it cost to tailor 2 extra holes on the tunic, and make the curl. I watched the tailor in Esquimalt make me executive curl shoulder boards in about 15 minutes.

I had a look at the new NCD's, they are slowly making it into the system. The new pants and jacket are OK, the pants have a lot of extra pockets which are nice and have sewn in creases. The jacket looks ok, except for the Canada flag on the shoulder which seems out of place. Hopefully the new NAVY/MARINE name tags won't come out, they look way too flashy.

As per the executive curl, it would be nice to bring it in, however with the shortage of money the navy is facing and with the ecomony the way it is, I think the money would be better spent elsewhere. If money is to spent, I would rather see it spent on the NCM's not the officers.

My 2 cents.

 

[Sailorwest]

As per the executive curl, it would be nice to bring it in, however with the shortage of money the navy is facing and with the economy the way it is, I think the money would be better spent elsewhere. If money is to spent, I would rather see it spent on the NCM's not the officers.

My 2 cents.
[/=quote]
On what would you prefer money spent for NCM's vs. officers and why? We have moved very far in the direction of 'rank has no privilege' so I guess I don't understand understand why a modification of the uniform to have appropriate representation of history and culture to instill greater pride in the service would be so troubling.

 

[Radar114]

Then the ballcap was approved for anyplace that NCDs are approved for wear.

 

[medaid]

Honestly? We as a service needs to quit thinking about things that make us look pretty, and more into things that makes us more efficient and comfortable for work.

Current NCDs = FAIL

I don't believe that everyone should be in NavOp capbadge. Specialist/Support trades i.e. Med/Int/Log/MP/JAG etc does not belong to the Navy they are 'purple' and should wear Branch insignia.
The only people that should be in NavOp badges are already in them the MARS and the MARE.

 

[Neill McKay]

Then the ballcap was approved for anyplace that NCDs are approved for wear.

When was that?

 

[Occam]

When was that?

The MARGEN came out within the last two days.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak); MARGEN 34/09(Unclass):
".....THE NAVY BLACK UNIT BALLCAP (RED FOR SEA TRAINING) MAY NOW BE WORN AS AN ALTERNATIVE, OPTIONAL ITEM WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS ASHORE OR ANYWHERE THAT NCDS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR.  THE ONLY MARKINGS AUTHORIZED ARE ON THE FRONT PANEL OF THE CAP AND THEY REMAIN THE UNITS NAME AND DESIGNATOR WITH SIDE NUMBERS AS APPLICABLE.
2. THIS POLICY APPLIES TO ALL UNITS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED BY MARCOM TO ISSUE BALLCAPS FOR WEAR WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS...."

 

[Sub_Guy]

It's about time, the ballcap looks much better than the stylish beret...

Now that I sit here and think about it, the new policy does make sense.  Stand by for the MARGEN informing the Naval branch that NCD's are no longer permitted as a walking out rig.

 

[Radar114]

Stand by for the MARGEN informing the Naval branch that NCD's are no longer permitted as a walking out rig.

LOL


I like the beret actually, as long as those wearing it, wear it properly.  The new ones with the cloth band are better, much better than those older versions that flop down like a pizza and come to the bottom of the earlobe.  Or is worn sitting back on the head so you get to see all the forehead of the wearer.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Honestly? We as a service needs to quit thinking about things that make us look pretty, and more into things that makes us more efficient and comfortable for work.

Current NCDs = FAIL

I don't believe that everyone should be in NavOp capbadge. Specialist/Support trades i.e. Med/Int/Log/MP/JAG etc does not belong to the Navy they are 'purple' and should wear Branch insignia.
The only people that should be in NavOp badges are already in them the MARS and the MARE.

What would you have the hard sea trades wear if not the Operations capbadge?

 

[medaid]

Ex-D my comment was directed to one earlier re:every one wear the Operations badge. That's why I'm saying those who are hard sea trades already do wear them. Everyone else dpesnt belong to the Navy to begin with.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ex-D my comment was directed to one earlier re:every one wear the Operations badge. That's why I'm saying those who are hard sea trades already do wear them. Everyone else dpesnt belong to the Navy to begin with.

Kewl...thanks for the clarification.

 

[Neill McKay]

Everyone else dpesnt belong to the Navy to begin with.

I would say that the navy is everyone in the CF who wears the navy DEU, not just those in the Naval Operations Branch.

 

[Monsoon]

I would say that the navy is everyone in the CF who wears the navy DEU, not just those in the Naval Operations Branch.

I'd agree to the extent that you're talking about the admin trades that support the navy. Your argument becomes more tenuous when you consider all of the miscellaneous purple trades - Bioscience, HCA, JAG, Medical Officer, Nursing Officer, PSO, TDO, Physiotherapy, Social Work, etc. For the most part, when these people are enrolled they're just asked what DEU they want to wear. Sometimes, people who won't ever work with the navy directly pick the navy DEU because they like the look of it. Should they really be wearing a Naval Operations cap badge?

Put another way, how do you think the RCR would feel about a Physiotherapist in Halifax who'd never been to Petawawa wearing the RCR cap badge?

 

[Neill McKay]

I'd agree to the extent that you're talking about the admin trades that support the navy. Your argument becomes more tenuous when you consider all of the miscellaneous purple trades - Bioscience, HCA, JAG, Medical Officer, Nursing Officer, PSO, TDO, Physiotherapy, Social Work, etc. For the most part, when these people are enrolled they're just asked what DEU they want to wear. Sometimes, people who won't ever work with the navy directly pick the navy DEU because they like the look of it. Should they really be wearing a Naval Operations cap badge?

No, and to make my intention clearer, I don't have any problem with the current cap badge situation.  Everyone in the Canadian Forces wears a cap badge indicating his or her branch (or regiment), and I don't have any problem with which occupations are attached to the Naval Operations Branch.

What I'm saying is that the Naval Operations Branch is a subset of the navy (and a rather large one at that); it's not the navy in itself.  There's no "fourth element", although I understand that was considered when DEUs were introduced.

I read an interesting paper a while ago (possibly in the Canadian military Journal) about individuals' identities.  The trend is that people in the navy identify tend to identify with the navy as a whole, those in the army with their corps or regiment, and those in the air force with their trade.  It would be interesting to talk to some naval DEU pers who really are removed from the navy.  I don't mean a staff officer in Ottawa (since Ottawa is, in its own way, a navy town too), but, say, a cook or PSO, all of whose postings have been inland.  I wonder how strongly they would identify with the navy.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

N. McKay:
We just let those in Ottawa think they are a Navy town but . . . THERE ARE NO SHIPS IN OTTAWA!!! - Hence no Navy town - Sorry for yelling - pet peeve of mine. Back to the original comment about standing by for a MARGEN not allowing DEU as walking out - could be although 'they' have promised we wont go to the extreme that we did in 1985 for the 75th. I actually didn't mind that then but I was young, impressionable and thought the old bus driver greens were cool! I keep wondering though - are we being set up for failure here?
As for some of the purple trades, I heard a 3 ringer (Naval Cdr) giving a brief at a D-Day ceremony a couple years back. There was a heavy attendance of Naval veterans and this individual pronounced the ships name HMCS HAIDA as "Hay-dee". I asked him after - said he had never heard of the ship!!!! That is embarassing.

 

[medaid]

It would be interesting to talk to some naval DEU pers who really are removed from the navy.  I don't mean a staff officer in Ottawa (since Ottawa is, in its own way, a navy town too), but, say, a cook or PSO, all of whose postings have been inland.  I wonder how strongly they would identify with the navy.

I don't identify strongly with the Navy at all. I identify with my Branch. Pure and simple. Ask an MP the same thing, "Are you an MP or are you an MP in the Navy?" I think the answer you'll get predominantly is  "I'm an MP. My DEU doesn't matter."

 

[Neill McKay]

We just let those in Ottawa think they are a Navy town but . . . THERE ARE NO SHIPS IN OTTAWA!!! - Hence no Navy town - Sorry for yelling - pet peeve of mine.

Fair point, but there is a strong navy staff presence in Ottawa that goes back to the time when the RCN HQ was there.  Or, to put it another way, there are a lot of navy members in Ottawa doing navy jobs, as opposed to purple jobs, so it's not just another inland posting.

(Nothing to do with this thread, but as a matter of interest most or all Coast Guard ships are registered at Ottawa, presumably for some administrative reason.  I'm surprised that it's a port of registry but evidently it is.)

 

[Otis]

I identify myself as Navy first, Supply second (but then again, I've had several Army types tell me that Navy Supply Techs don't really belong to the Log branch either, because we're NAVY ... so I guess nobody really wants us Salty Bin rats)