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The current navy uniform

My first batch of name tags in 06/07 the Anchor was to the left, now it's all are to the right.  I am told that this was due to the fact that your shoulder straps on whatever you might be wearing covered the "what flavour am I" indicator.  Makes it easier to be more polite if you give a damn on what flavour the person you are talking to is.  Personally I prefer to recognised as a Sailor not a Soldier or Airman and make the effort to reciprocate.
 
If one is wearing the proper colour name tags (green for Army, blue for AF and black for Navy) there shouldn't be a problem with being addressed properly.

Not to mention, Navy is the only one with different ranks.  ;)
 
PMedMoe said:
If one is wearing the proper colour name tags (green for Army, blue for AF and black for Navy) there shouldn't be a problem with being addressed properly.

Not to mention, Navy is the only one with different ranks.  ;)

Well lets see..... If you are here in the sandbox as I am again at present, we are all wearing the same coloured name tape.  All that separates us is the crossed Swords, Golden Eagle or fouled Anchor in that regard.  And as for the green it all depends on where you come from.  All of my green have been just like the Army style with the exception of the identifier. 

And no, really we are not the only ones with the different ranks.  Just call a Patricia Colour Sgt a PO2, or a Bdr a LS or say a Tpr a AB.... and see how they react.  Even the Army has it's traditions and differences. 

As for being addressed properly, that only goes if the one doing the addressing wants to make the effort to get it right.  If I had a dollar for every time I have been addressed as MCpl I could buy myself a 40 pounder or two of Johnny Walker Blue when I rotate home.  :2c:
 
jollyjacktar said:
If I had a dollar for every time I have been addressed as MCpl I could buy myself a 40 pounder or two of Johnny Walker Blue when I rotate home.  :2c:

Pffft you know you like it  ;D
 
Jollyjacker, I feel your pain. Living up here in Army land as a P1 if I had a nickle for everytime I was called "sir" I could retire. Don't they know I work for a living and my parents were married before I was born!!?
 
FDO said:
Jollyjacker, I feel your pain. Living up here in Army land as a P1 if I had a nickle for everytime I was called "sir" I could retire. Don't they know I work for a living and my parents were married before I was born!!?

Two way street --- if I had a dollar for every time I was addressed as "AB", then "OS", then "LS" even "Killick" while I was posted in Halifax ...

And I wore blue then work dress!! -- with a f'n wedge (we didn't have AF berets), so it was FN OBVIOUS that I was not navy ... but pers actually went out of their way to ensure they addressed me improperly --- once even accompanied by a rousing rendition of Anchors Away ... then they all shook their heads in amazement when the memo addressed to the career shop was turned in wherein I requested a posting to CFB Petawawa ... field side. A decision I've never regretted.
 
ArmyVern said:
Two way street --- if I had a dollar for every time I was addressed as "AB", then "OS", then "LS" even "Killick" while I was posted in Halifax ...

And I wore blue then work dress!! -- with a f'n wedge (we didn't have AF berets), so it was FN OBVIOUS that I was not navy ... but pers actually went out of their way to ensure they addressed me improperly --- once even accompanied by a rousing rendition of Anchors Away ... then they all shook their heads in amazement when the memo addressed to the career shop was turned in wherein I requested a posting to CFB Petawawa ... field side. A decision I've never regretted.

Zactly my point.  A Sailor, Soldier, or in your case Airwoman does not want to be mistaken or worse deliberately called one of the others.  Especially the hard trades.  I once was a purple too, AF in 1 BG.  There was no mistaking what I was dressed in the blue workdress.  There were so many blends of us on parade including the red berets I heard someone say once that we looked like a box a smarties.

There always will be assholes who will wind you up for sport like that, shame you could not have slammed their collective gates when they were swinging.  Guess I get mine back by putting Navy stickers on Army things.  ;D  Always good for a show. 

Oh, and I especially hate being preached at by some Pongo, that I am a "Soldier first".  I may dress like one, and at times have to behave like one but I am not one.  Period.  And no, it is not an "honour" to called one either.
 
FDO said:
Living up here in Army land as a P1 if I had a nickle for everytime I was called "sir" I could retire.

I read a post several years ago from a WO who had served, it seems to me, in Cyprus was was attracting a salute from the same Australian captain every morning.  In that case it wasn't a question of his element, but the fact that a Canadian WO (or PO1) has a rank insignia that is used for a major in most of the Commonwealth.  (After a few days of this the WO bought the captain a beer and explained the finer points of Canadian Forces rank insignia, and I'm sure everyone lived happily ever after.)
 
I put it down to training. The Soldiers are trained to call certain NCM ranks with Sir. I have stopped worring about it even though I wear an Navy uniform. I don't wear CADPAT. It's either 3B or NCD. If it bothered me a lot I'd have ulcers by now. Although my preference is PO. Just pay me twice a month and give me my leave when I ask for it and I'm good. Now if the Army would adopt the 1000 soup tradition I'd be a very happy sailor. There are bigger things to worry about right now than to get bent out of shape over being called by a "proper" CF rank even if it is the wrong element. I just say build a bridge, get over it!
 
I don't get bent about it.  If I did that, I would look like a pretzle 24/7 pretty well.  But it does not mean that I have to accept it without gently correcting the offender for future. 

But, "Soldier first" does yank my chain still.
 
Ugggh....hate to inform you but seeing as to how you are in the CF you ARE a "soldier first".

Every trade in the CF supports the most basic unit of the military, the infantry.  That is indiscriminate whether you are an Air type, Sailor or cook.

 
Quag said:
Ugggh....hate to inform you but seeing as to how you are in the CF you ARE a "soldier first".

That's Army propaganda to the extreme, having been in the Navy and the Air Force I have NEVER heard anyone mention "Soldier First".  Although I have heard, "Sailor First" and "Airman First".  The only ones I hear mention the "Soldier First" are hard Army types.   
 
Dolphin_Hunter said:
That's Army propaganda to the extreme, having been in the Navy and the Air Force I have NEVER heard anyone mention "Soldier First".  Although I have heard, "Sailor First" and "Airman First".  The only ones I hear mention the "Soldier First" are hard Army types.   

Indeed. Frankly, it smacks of extreme arrogance to come in and try to inform members from another element that our priorities are wrong. The NDA doesn't mention a clause stating "everyone is a soldier", and I haven't seen the CANFORGEN decreeing such. Especially considering that whenever addressing members of all three elements, it's always sailors, soldiers, airmen and airwomen. Three distinct groups.

I am a sailor, an officer, an engineer, a CSEO, a geek, etc. But I am not a soldier. The fact that I may, at times, support land operations no more makes me a soldier than the members of an air detachment aboard one of HMC Ships suddenly transform into sailors.

We are all members of the Canadian Armed Forces. We are all warriors. But it is frankly bloody insulting to have people come in here and try to dictate how I should view and refer to myself.

 
Quag said:
Ugggh....hate to inform you but seeing as to how you are in the CF you ARE a "soldier first".

Every trade in the CF supports the most basic unit of the military, the infantry.  That is indiscriminate whether you are an Air type, Sailor or cook.

Sorry, but gcclarke is correct. You are trying to take in internal, army, maxim and apply it externally, where it should not and, in my  opinion cannot be applied.

"Soldier first/tradesman second" is a good rule, inside the army. Inside the navy - which conducts operations quite independent of anything the army does, requiring no army support - they are, generally, "sailors first," of necessity.

Going a bit farther, if I may, we often toss "soldier first" about with thinking that many of our tradesmen must be "tradesman first" - even when they are in danger - because that's what you need from then when your vehicle or weapon is broken down, when you are short of supplies and when you need to be evacuated.

We are all members of many teams, beginning with the CF and extending down through service, regiment, corps or branch to ship, battalion or squadron and to (sometimes specialist, technical) sub-unit and team. Sailors, soldiers and air force members all do their jobs - sometimes "alone" in their unique environments, sometimes as part of joint and combined task forces. Sailors are "warriors" but they are not and need not be soldiers.

A little history, if I may: in 1939 and '40 and '41, while the Canadian Army was being trained and equipped - because it was in no respect ready for battle, the Canadian Navy - equally unprepared - put to sea, into battle, because there was a decisive battle being waged, more important than the invasion of Italy, more important, indeed, that Normandy, and the Navy could not wait, it was denied the luxury of proper training and adequate equipment. Poorly trained sailors in second rate ships went to sea and fought - the army had nothing to do with it; the army wasn't involved, except, now and again as passengers; the Navy was fighting a critical Naval campaign while the army waited. They were, all, "sailors first," they, and a few air force members (eventually a lot of air force members, but in 1940 only the famous "few") fought their own battles, in their own environments - decisive battles, while the soldiers watched from the sidelines and waited for their turn.

You must do your job, as a soldier, as a specialist, as well as you can and you must rest assured that the sailors and air force members are doing theirs the same way. And someday your primary job may involve guarding a dockyard or a flying station, "defending" the ships and sailors and the aircraft and the people who fly and maintain them while they get on with the fighting.

Regards
ERC


Edit: spelling error corrected
 
ERC, as always, eloquently put.  BZ.  And that is more or less what my Dad said years ago.  And he was one of the Soldiers who was waiting whilst the RCN and RCAF got on with it.  :salute:
 
Pat in Halifax said:
Straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak); MARGEN 34/09(Unclass):
".....THE NAVY BLACK UNIT BALLCAP (RED FOR SEA TRAINING) MAY NOW BE WORN AS AN ALTERNATIVE, OPTIONAL ITEM WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS ASHORE OR ANYWHERE THAT NCDS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR.  THE ONLY MARKINGS AUTHORIZED ARE ON THE FRONT PANEL OF THE CAP AND THEY REMAIN THE UNITS NAME AND DESIGNATOR WITH SIDE NUMBERS AS APPLICABLE.
2. THIS POLICY APPLIES TO ALL UNITS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED BY MARCOM TO ISSUE BALLCAPS FOR WEAR WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS...."

does anyone know what prompted this change in the dress regs for ncd's?  i was off on an extended period of leave when this came down and since i've been back to work, i can't get a straight answer why it happened, nor can i bring myself to wearing my ballcap as part of my 'walking out rig'...don't get me wrong, when i'm in civies i've usually got a baseball cap on, because i love wearing one, but i just wouldn't feel right with that as my headress in uniform.  my army and airforce friends wear berets with their everyday operational/occupational wear while coming and going, i just seem to prefer to wear the equivalent.  call me pusser...
 
I do not take anything I view online as gospel until I confirm it at work. As for the MARGEN approving the use of the ballcap and the reason for the change...I have read the reference and no reason for the change is offered.

In fact many locations I am informed, where NCDs are approved still do not allow the ballcap for walking out rig. Ultimately, I think the change is meant to allow the average sailor to drive to and from the ship in one headdress, park and walk into work without getting into a dressing down over forgetting to change headdress. This happens too often near the gates between the dockyard and parking lots.

This is my personal experience and not an official answer, just some common dog flogg.  ;)
 
kratz said:
I do not take anything I view online as gospel until I confirm it at work. As for the MARGEN approving the use of the ballcap and the reason for the change...I have read the reference and no reason for the change is offered.

In fact many locations I am informed, where NCDs are approved still do not allow the ballcap for walking out rig. Ultimately, I think the change is meant to allow the average sailor to drive to and from the ship in one headdress, park and walk into work without getting into a dressing down over forgetting to change headdress. This happens too often near the gates between the dockyard and parking lots.

This is my personal experience and not an official answer, just some common dog flogg.  ;)

Well, if it had been up to me, the decision would have been made because I think the berets look silly, and the ball caps look better. But, that's just me. I rather think that kratz's answer hits a lot closer to home. The idea of being forced to change your uniform (even a part thereof) on your way to and from work is rather ridiculous. And let's face it, who wears their beret on ship? Even assuming that you have a choice, and that dress of the day isn't defined as NCDs plus ball caps.
 
I was of the opinion that it was a bone thrown to sailors who were being told that they can't have a beard anymore in seagoing billets.  Probably not true but the decisions seemed to come out one in close succession.
 
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