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The Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1968-1995 (merged)

Does the Government of Canada owe an Apology to the Airborne Regiment ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 96 58.9%
  • No

    Votes: 67 41.1%

  • Total voters
    163
Actually it wasn't "The entire regiment slept or drank beer while a kid was getting tortured to death."  It was 2 Commando, 1 and 3 weren't there (unless each commando was considered a Regiment) but I'll let the guys that served there add the particulars.
P.S.  its sucks to be a scapegoat.
 
I locked this,even though I didn't want to, but I can see no good coming in the future here.

Oatmeal Savage,
This line,....The entire regiment slept or drank beer while a kid was getting tortured to death. Members saw it and did nothing.....means you have no idea of what you are talking about, you just couldn't have answered no, eh?

Alas I have to lock this or edit that post as it does nothing to add to the conversation,...au contraire.
wait......

....allright here it is, what I want is someone more in the knowledge than I to rebuttal his post, and not with the sledgehammer approach, anyone can see with his "lawn darts" anology among others he just has a hate on, so someone please show him the error of his ways WITHOUT resorting to the kind of name-calling that this site does not need.

...if anyone just posts to scream at said person than I will lock it back up and probably delete it.

...if anyone has a  problem with this than you can PM Mr. Bobbitt and complain.
Thank you
Bruce
 
"Lawn dart" is a derogatory term! Used in some places would probably get you a smack in the head! It is right up there with the terms "wog" or "leg" which used towards certain people also might get you a smack in the head!
It was a term I heard used in battalion by persons who had either never jumped before or failed their jump course. Nine times out of ten the person making said remark was a best a marginal soldier, best just to ignore said individuals.
As it has been posted many times before(and probably many times in the future) if you can't discuss here without resorting to insults do everyone a favour and leave!
Wow, a whole post and I don't think I've offended anyone! ;D
 
IMHO the answer is a resounding YES, but our Government can do no wrong and therefore they will never admit ever to making a mistake..look at the Gun registry fiasco.
 
First, let me state that the disbanding of the CAR was a mistake.

However, we are subordinate to the gov't and therefore an apology is inappropriate. An explanation would be more forthcoming.  It would be the same as the gov't apologizing for cutting EI benefits or raising taxes. It might be apples and oranges, but you get my drift. Disbanding was theire prerogative, and was with, at the minimum, consultation, and the most, agreement of the CDS and his staff. Therefore the CF had its hand there too, because I don't remember any Senior staff resigning over it.

The gov't would not apologize anyway, as "they" feel that they did nothing wrong. Just as there will be no apology for the overdue replacement of Sea Kings and Labradors which has actually cost lives. With the new CO taking charge, the Regiment should have been given the opportunity to change. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. But, the Sharone incident didn't cause the disbandment. If that had been the only incident, then I am sure it would have weathered the storm. Unfortunately, it became a media magnet and all sorts of shit started to stick to it (ie hazing videos). The gov't had to be seen to do something, therefore the outcome. As we all know. not only is maintaining discipline important, discipline must be seen to be done.

The general public doesn't care/know about the Airborne, and if pressed, would venture the opinion that it was a "rogue"  Regiment and deserved what it got. As I have said before you hear something often enough, it becomes fact. I bet the gov't probably believes that also, if it came up on their radar. I know that an apology would be important to the Airborne fraternity in particular, and the Army in general but it just isn't going to happen.

An important note is this time period in the CF history changed all of us. This was the beginning of SHARP, rise of PAFFOs, easier to cut our budgets, the higher ups shirking their responsibilities (Boyle), and general plunge in the CF moral. Members didn't want to wear their uniform in public (at least in NDHQ). At the time, Yugo was heating up, and the general public didn't know that Canadian soldiers were getting shot at and were shooting shooting back ( Medak just being one example). I think the general public would be very surprised of the shit that was flying around both Somalia and Yugo, and what an excellent job the vast majority did. I think thats the crime, and recognition is just starting to happen. The Somalia "incident and the disbandment of the CAR was our Vietnam, and I don't think the CF actually started to redeem itself in the public eyes until the Winnipeg floods in 1997, and come up in the public's eyes during OP Appolo.

 
I'd like a site where all the people with experience wouldn't take a carte blanche to be complete dicks.
I'd also like a site where people didn't pointlessly flame someone they disagree with because they can't form a coherent counterargument without making themselves look like a 10 year who just learned how to swear.

Neither of is getting what we want, the difference being I'll still be here tomorrow and I'm not a crusty old bugger who needs to compensate for his petite wang by flaming MO clerks.


Tootles Sweetheart.
 
Those three posts were so inanely retarded that I just deleted them.
 
Well I'm kinda at a loss....and confused.

Thanks Infanteer  ;)

As for the whole apologie from the gov't.....it'll never happen.

I was never in the CAR nor am I a jumper however, I knew lots of jumpers in the CAR...all fine troops, best I ever seen. That being said, I was beside myself when I saw the tapes.

Then after the change of COs and the "clearing house" that happened (the news made it to Gagetown) everything sounded like it was fixed and the CAR was back on track...better than ever.

Then the announcement.... everyone I knew was shocked. There was profused lobbying at the local MPs office.

The decision was made....by people who were blinded by protecting their own arse, and will never make ammends.

Well done Liberals....  ::)

Regards
 
RCA said:
First, let me state that the disbanding of the CAR was a mistake.

However, we are subordinate to the gov't and therefore an apology is inappropriate. An explanation would be more forthcoming.   It would be the same as the gov't apologizing for cutting EI benefits or raising taxes. It might be apples and oranges, but you get my drift. Disbanding was theire prerogative, and was with, at the minimum, consultation, and the most, agreement of the CDS and his staff. Therefore the CF had its hand there too, because I don't remember any Senior staff resigning over it.

The gov't would not apologize anyway, as "they" feel that they did nothing wrong. Just as there will be no apology for the overdue replacement of Sea Kings and Labradors which has actually cost lives. With the new CO taking charge, the Regiment should have been given the opportunity to change. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. But, the Sharone incident didn't cause the disbandment. If that had been the only incident, then I am sure it would have weathered the storm. Unfortunately, it became a media magnet and all sorts of crap started to stick to it (ie hazing videos). The gov't had to be seen to do something, therefore the outcome. As we all know. not only is maintaining discipline important, discipline must be seen to be done.

The general public doesn't care/know about the Airborne, and if pressed, would venture the opinion that it was a "rogue"   Regiment and deserved what it got. As I have said before you hear something often enough, it becomes fact. I bet the gov't probably believes that also, if it came up on their radar. I know that an apology would be important to the Airborne fraternity in particular, and the Army in general but it just isn't going to happen.

An important note is this time period in the CF history changed all of us. This was the beginning of SHARP, rise of PAFFOs, easier to cut our budgets, the higher ups shirking their responsibilities (Boyle), and general plunge in the CF moral. Members didn't want to wear their uniform in public (at least in NDHQ). At the time, Yugo was heating up, and the general public didn't know that Canadian soldiers were getting shot at and were shooting shooting back ( Medak just being one example). I think the general public would be very surprised of the crap that was flying around both Somalia and Yugo, and what an excellent job the vast majority did. I think thats the crime, and recognition is just starting to happen. The Somalia "incident and the disbandment of the CAR was our Vietnam, and I don't think the CF actually started to redeem itself in the public eyes until the Winnipeg floods in 1997, and come up in the public's eyes during OP Appolo.


Couldn't have said better myself. (A former member of the Regt) J
 
I had to vote "no".

The government of the day had to do something serious to show Canadians, and the military itself, that they are our masters, after all.  The military tried hushing it up, then sweeping it under a rug, but the military is, after all, responsible to the government.  The military itself blew it.  If the CDS, or even the army commander, had stepped forward, taken responsibility, and shown how they would correct things, then maybe the disbandment would not have happened. 

I figure that the senior leadership of the army in the time in question owe the apologies.

Not the government.
 
CFL said:
I think accountability is a good thing whether it comes from an apology or actions.  By apoligizing the present gov't can show an accountability for what has happened.
accountability & Liberal Government. Isn't that an oxymoron?


I think the ultimate apology would be to clean out NDHQ of all the civilian puppetmasters, restore a decent budget for the Canadian Armed Forces and let the people who know how to soldier run the army.

I know that as soldiers we are to serve Canada before ourselves but didn't the present government of Canada promise more troops and cash to the CF. Where is it?
 
http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/11/nabuse11.xml
 
Insert Quote
Quote from: CFL on February 06, 2005, 16:26:10
I think accountability is a good thing whether it comes from an apology or actions.  By apoligizing the present gov't can show an accountability for what has happened.

accountability & Liberal Government. Isn't that an oxymoron?

Governments are routinely held to account - its called an election.

Dave


 
I think that Sir Winston Churchill said it best when he said that the best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter...

Slim
 
Without going into too much detail here, yes, I do think the Gov't owes an apology. They went too far (imo) by disbanding the entire regt.. taking the easy way out instead of taking the time to root out the problems and keep the regt intact.
 
If the Government had to apologize to every group, individual, and nation everytime it made a mistake, it would take all day, every day. You'd have some lackie standing on Parliament Hill yapping like a deranged town crier.

No applogy will bring the Regiment back, nor will it appease those who were personally affected by the disbandment. What is the purpose of an applogy? To let us know they cocked it up? We know that. Is it to let the public know? I don't think they much care anymore, it would be a 5 second bullet on the evening news, and that's it. Is it to bring back the CAR? That won't happen until they are needed operationally (IMHO) or until the Americans really pressure us for it.

So what purpose would it serve? Other than to set a precedent for apologizing for every mistake.
 
Without stating whether or not the CAR should receive an apology,I would like to point out that a public   apology is one of a range of appropriate legal remedies for libelous, discriminatory or arbitrary collective punishment actions taken by the state and other legal persons [such as an individual or a corporation]. The remedy of an apology exists by statute, and it is there for a purpose. Therefore, the precedent has not only been set, it is regularly exercised. The issue in the context of the AB is one of ideology, not the appropriateness or flood gate effects of an apology by the government.


The disbandment of the CAR immediately crystallized the issue and forever tarnished the reputation of many thousands of excellent soldiers who continue to suffer the effects of guilt by innocent association to a criminal action in which they had no part and over which they had no control. While a couple of lowlifes committed the crimes, the government of the day inexcusably caused the foregoing damage to the innocent. I believe this is how the CO of the CAR feels when he says the issue is not closed, and I think he may be right. The damage is inexcusable because the entire issue could have been handled much better and it begs the question that if this was any other group in society, would the lackeys to JC in Cabinet have so fearlessly taken the decision that they did?          

 
Looking for OOB & TOE for the Canadian Airborne Regiment.

I know that initially it had the following:

HQ squadron
two large airborne commandos (one French speaking)
an airborne engineer squaron
an airborne artillery battery
an airborne signal squadron
an airborne service squadron

and then later reorganised into;

HQ & Signal squadron
three 150-man airborne commandos (one from each regiment - RCR, PPCLI,
and R22eR)
and the airborne service commando

Can anyone verify or expand on this?

Thanx in advance.....
 
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