The Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1968-1995 (merged)

[excoelis]

Some more food for thought.

How long should a Cbt Arms soldier be responsible for a detainee?

Everything we are taught would indicate that the detainee is pushed back to the rear then up the chain of command and finally to the military police and counter-intelligence guys. Why would you leave him for any longer than is absolutely necessary with the ‘combatants‘ or ‘the pointy end‘ who in the Infantry‘s case has a role of ‘TO CLOSE WITH AND DESTROY THE ENEMY‘ or at the very least are fulfilling some other essential function like security, force protection, patrolling, etc.

Now before some of you get your nickers in a twist - I understand that the army has evolved from Cyprus to Bosnia to Afghanisan etc..... I understand that we have to be a multi-roled, adaptive, and dynamic force due to our lack of numbers â “ I understand that the public and their elected officials thrive on the whole peacekeeper image - But I for one am sick and tired of doing all the fukking work while the other ‘support‘ trades train for the standing around team.

Where were the military police when Shidane Arone was in custody? Are they not trained to be objective, unbiased, and follow legally sound procedures? I understand that there wasn‘t near enough of them sent over there to do their mandated job - but is that the grunt‘s fault who is left holding the bag - or the fault of higher.

I can also say that in ‘recent experience‘ the MPs didn‘t really have a grip on what to do with detainees. I can also recall my INFANTRY troops training local police in this country - like WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH THAT????

Anyway, I‘m ranting and probably pissing off MPs everywhere, but I will leave it at that because there are a lot of other people I could go on about.....................wouldn‘t want to make my position untenable.

 

[chriscalow]

Very well said.

 

[The Queen`s Bloggins]

Most of the usual points about the demise of the CAR have been brought up here. Lack of discipline, bad leadership, political conveience, etc. I have worked with several ex-CAR types who are excellent soldiers and continue to lend their skills to the CF, but the question that has been on my mind for years is "Where were the senior NCOs during all of this?"

We‘ve heard about the junior NCOs like Brown and Matchee and the weak officer cadre, but where were the SNCOs who should have been enforcing some discipline in garrison as well as on missions overseas? During the entire Somalia affair, I recall very few, if any, SNCOs being called to testify or facing discipline for what went on?

Can any of you para types comment on this?

 

[Rick_Donald]

Good documentary.He says that alot of the members of the Regiment left the army shortly after disbandment. That sure is a lot of serious money down the drain just for Cretin to make a point or win votes or whatever fool reason he ordered the disbandment of the CAR.
All the reasons mentioned for it are bullshit. Every unit has a few loose cannons, and sure it is the responsibility of the senior ranks to keep a tight leash on the crazy SOB‘s and harness that gungho energy for the good of the unit.
But you don‘t disband a unit for this.You learn from it and soldier on.
As the author showed us the CAR went on to out perform all units in international competition and bring pride to the Canadian Armed Forces.
But you won‘t read about that in the liberal, left wing media, will you?
As for esprit de corp within the Canadian Airborne Regiment it was well warranted. But needless to say I am just as proud to be an ex Royal as I am to be ex Airborne.

 

[excoelis]

Originally posted by The Queen‘s Bloggins:
[qb] Edit for brevity...........
We‘ve heard about the junior NCOs like Brown and Matchee and the weak officer cadre, but where were the SNCOs who should have been enforcing some discipline in garrison as well as on missions overseas? During the entire Somalia affair, I recall very few, if any, SNCOs being called to testify or facing discipline for what went on?

Can any of you para types comment on this? [/qb]

I think you can probably answer that question yourself but if you want to hear it from someone that was there........

THEY WHERE ASLEEP AT THE FUKKING WHEEL

Lots of speculation as to why. Mostly, I think it comes down to group dynamics. If you run with a pack of aggressive dogs you best be the Alpha male. I‘ll leave it at that and hopefully someone within the 2 Cdo ranks will set the record straight.

 

[Merkava]

Somehow I can't see a bunch of liberal tree-hugging university students suffering through the hazing which new recruits to the CAR had to endure, let alone anything worse.  For instance, I'm sure you heard about the manner in which jump wings were "pinned on" to new members, and I for one doubt very many civvies could handle that.

And no, I don't have anything against the CAR.  It was a mistake to disband them, and just another example of the government shitting on the CF in order to present a more PC image.

Whats wrong with having your wings pinned on?

 

[Merkava]

Really?  I heard from an member of the Regiment that blood wings were standard practice for the CAR.  Were you a member?  If my info's wrong, I'll have to talk to that guy again...

I was NOT a common practice, I only saw 3 cases during m 3 years and one was my own. I asked I received

 

[Doug VT]

I was presented my US wings while attached to JRTC in Louisiana.   Everyone who received their wings that day were in the "Blood Wings" fashion.   It's nothing really, but not for the squeamish.   We had one guy (no names) who's wings didn't go in the first time, so they lined them up and hit'em again.   He almost passed out...

 

[D-n-A]

ow..
Do you get a drink of alcohol before you get the blood wings? I'm just basing this off a movie I saw on Force Recon.


What do you have to do to get US Jump Wings? Have the canadian jumpwings, an do 1   jump with american gear and jumpmaster?

 

[MP 811]

I jumped down in Bragg and got my US wings with the 82nd AB MP PL.  Everyone who was on the Starlifter got a crack at me for the blood wing cerimony.  Some guys opted out, some guys pretended to pound me hard, some guys really did pound me hard, and one guy took his kevlar helmet off and gooned me with that.  Worst part was the two prongs kept coming out after every shot so I must of had about 30 puncture wounds!  Wouldn't have traded that experience for anything...................ahhh to be young again!

 

[MP 811]

I actually did 6 during the All American week back in 1988.  I think you can do one or two if your current but not sure.  I think the current jumpers on here would be better able to inform you on that.  It's been a loooooong time for me.

 

[muskrat89]

As a matter of fact, same goes about any other subject

Boy, if we could make that one stick...........

 

[Cloud Cover]

On CBC Sunday, LCol Kenward spoke in his usual no-nonsense manner.

"The members of the Canadian Airborne Regiment are owed en masse an apology because this issue is not yet closed. Ten years after the fact, the issue is not closed ..." Do you agree?


In other interesting statements, LCol Kenward revealed that the day the regiment was disbanded, he had driven to Ottawa immediately prior to Collenette's announcement, but the Minister had him wait for several hours and continued to refuse to see him. Kenward drove back to Pet without ever having had a chance to talk personally to the cretin who disbanded the Regiment. Next, Kenward stated that the Minister's office actually called him in Pet to ensure that the order to disband would be carried out... Collenette was apparently afraid the order would be ignored, or perhaps something worse. 

 

[Slim]

The most professional soldiers in Canada...Right to the very end!...God, it must have hurt to carry out the disbanding!

The Govt and especially the Fiberals, owe those people in a big way!

Slim

 

[Armymedic]

Its 10 yrs since the CAR was disbanded, and I have to agree, this issue isn't dead, atleast in the military community. Unfortuntely, even if there was will to reinstate another Para capable Bn, there just isn't enough rifles to fill it....

I caught the last half of the article. The most intersting statements were at the end.

Quoted as best as I can remember,

"with the disbandment of the CAR, we lost a capability to deploy rapidly into the most austire conditions."

"The US would have asked for the CAR by name to participate in Afghanistan and Iraq."

 

[tomahawk6]

Yes it was a real shame that the unit was disbanded. When I was a young troop we had the opportunity to work with a company of the CAR and spend a month in Edmonton on a unit exchange. Very professional. It was a real shock to me when we made a jump with the CAR on hitting the ground looked up to see heavy equipment heading down. We do it the opposite, equipment drop first then the personnel. Great memories. I hope the CAR is reactivated it would be a great compliment to JTF2.

 

[karl28]

Yes the Gov should apologize to all the members of the Air Borne it was Canada's best unit ever . It should not of been disbanded because of a couple of bad apples . I had a chance to briefly meet some of the Air borne guys when I was a kid at an air show here in Trenton they where the greatest guys you could ever now .

 

[2 Cdo]

Disbandment was without a doubt the saddest day I spent in uniform. Ref. the apology, don't hold your breath with the present government!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The Government does not owe ANYBODY an apology. They are the masters of policy in Canada, not the military. That is as it should be.  I would be appalled if my commanding officer came on to the parade square to apologize for something in the way of a policy, even if he was in the wrong.  That is simply not something that is done.

Whether or not the Airborne should have been disbanded, no one is "owed" a damn thing by the Government. 

When I was with the Canadian contingent to the Beating Retreat of the Scottish Division in the UK many years ago, the senior Canadian drum major wore an American sweater with his CF uniform.  Barracks Dress was sweater and kilt.  We didn't think much of it (or him) but no one cared enough to complain, and if we did, there was no one to complain to. 

Just before we departed Scotland for England after the two weeks of rehearsals, and he had us lined up on the road, he explained why he was wearing the sweater (he had loaned his CF sweater to a piper who neglected to bring one from Canada).  To me, personally, and many of us, he seemed weak after that - stooping to explain something he really didn't have to.

Former airborne soldiers need to get over it.  Better yet, put yourselves in the Government's shoes - a few bad apples brough disgrace and discredit to everyone in uniform at that time.  Disbanding the Regiment may not have made operational sense, but it did give the public some form of reassurance that the disgusting atrocities carried out in Somalia were being taken seriously.

Perhaps one of the armchair politicians would like to explain how best to restore public confidence, after the hazing videos and Somalia enquiry, without disbanding the regiment?

 

[Jungle]

Obviously Mr Dorosh, you did not have to go through the post-Somalia period, and the disbandment. Regt members and their families were harassed by media people, spit on by other members of the Forces, and felt abandonned by the C of C (above Regt level) and the govt.
ALL the Men who served with the Cdn Ab Regt were painted with the same brush in 1995, regardless of what we did or when we served. Try doing the same when a person of a visible minority commits a crime...
We did not disgrace or discredit anyone or anything. Some people committed a crime, or let a crime be committed, and they are the only ones responsible. If you felt disgraced, it only demonstrates how thin skinned you really are. Maybe if you earned a medal other than the CD you would see things differently.
If our govt was able to apologize to Japanese-Cdns for their treatment during WWII, I think they can do the same for us... but like 2CDO said, I'm not holding my breath. I've gotten over that period, but I will never forget it.