The Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1968-1995 (merged)

[Old Cent Hand]

After Somalia , I lost alot of faith in our government , and NDHQ. I can‘t remember the number of " nauseous", Military Ethics and Ethos lectures , I have sat through. Maybe these " Clowns" , in Ottawa , should have a closer look at themselves , and start applying what they preach , to all us " bottom feeders".

 

[48Highlander]

I told you where I got it, from an ex-member of the CAR. Guess he figured it‘d make a good drinking story.

Thanks for the link, that‘s an awesome site.

 

[Pte.Nomercy]

For everyone in this forum I suggest that you do find out for yourself as to why the CAR was disbanded. "Fallout" is a good start, but that‘s just it, a incentive to find out the truth.

I suggest everyone gets the following books:

Scapegoat: How the Army betrayed Kyle Brown

Significant Incident

Dishonored Legacy: Volumes 1-5 (The 2000 page report that the 3 man Somalia Inquiry submitted on June 30 1995 as a final report )

Commission of Inquires analysis to the deployment of the CAR in Somalia

(There are about 7 different inquiry volumes pertaining to this royal commission that analyzed the CAR)

Somalia Cover up: A commissioners Journal

After reading all those, I suggest that you look into what was "Operation Restore Hope" and the difference between UNITAF and UNOSOM and the Canadian missions Operation Deliverance vs Operation Cordon. Not only that, do some research on Somalia and its â Å“international relations,â ? in the late 80's and what/ who was going on in the country.

Then you‘ll find out the truth as to why EVERYTHING happened the way it did and why the CAR was unjustifiably disbanded. The best way to describe it is "political expediency" to divert attention from a Conservative cover-up.

If anyone has questions, please Private Message me, I‘ll be happy to help.

 

[Old Cent Hand]

Off topic abit here . Today‘s CF , is changing rapidly. I think NDHQ , is in need of a name change . From NDHQ to CBE ( Consolidated Bonehead Enterprises).

 

[Slim]

After a recent visit to the home Regt. (LdSH) I have been told that the training standards for the regs had dropped to the point of lunacy.

The training NCO‘s ( in basic-or whatever they now call it) are no longer allowed to train the troops the way they should be and as a result are coming to the regt only half-trained (If that!)

My buddies tell me about recruits who lip off and refuse to do as they are told ect, ect. Things must have really fallen off for that to be occuring. I guess they are hurting for field time as well.

The LdSH(RC) NCO‘s are NOT a happy bunch!

Slim

 

[Old Cent Hand]

I agree with you Slim, I spent 4 years , as an Instructor , at W.A.T.C., formally the P.P.C.L.I. Battle School. Once I realized that the " Students" were running the School, I ASKED for Range Control.I know a number of good instructors there, when I hear an Infantry Instructor , say " I‘ll pass everyone, since we can‘t fail them",or I ask an Instructor , how his course is going , and he says " We started with 35 , we are down to 26, and some of the students , have lost the will to live",I knew it was time for a change.

 

[Old Cent Hand]

One of these days , our country will be in a real war , lots of casualties , I pray to God , I won‘t be there. Why , because I will be stupid enough to stick it out, when other people will go home , because they have "Issues". After 30 years in , I have crossed the line , from Dedication, to Stupidity.

 

[scm77]

The original documentary mentioned is on CBC Newsworld tonight (saturday) at 10:00 EST.

 

[sgt_mandal]

Is it possible they will ever reform anything like the CAR?

 

[CI Dumaran]

I really thought that the documentary was great. Gave me, at least, a different view of the whole thing.

The government... Sheesh!

We need a CAR back, or something along the lines of that fighting number.

 

[Spr.Earl]

This is 3rd time I have seen the documentary and I still admire Brown for what he did.
That took true morals and conviction what he did yet he was the only one who paid a price.
Even though he is or may be hated by his fellow Para‘s at least he knew what he did was wrong and came forward and admitted it.

I salute Kyle Brown for that
I as a Soldier would do the same.


The C.O. typicaly retired and went on to higher pay cheque!!

Note Iraq!!!!!!

 

[Old Cent Hand]

Kyle Brown,did the right thing, but our incompentant " Clowns", in NDHQ, and the Government ,burned him. Just another case of people in high places , covering their butt. My God , imagine an Officer, a RMC Graduate, for instance, tarnishing his precious career.Well these " Clowns" , found a " Scape Goat" , and unfortunately , it was Kyle Brown. At the cost of Kyle Brown‘s career, and his life in general, these " Pompous" asses are living a good life. This includes our " precious Officers" and Politicians. How can these pathetic people live with themselves? Wish I was a Colonel, in Brussels.I am talking about " Dog Nuts" there,Labbe.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Cent no truer words ever said.

If I ever meet Kyle,I‘ll shake his hand and buy him a round of his choice or the best nosh I could afford.

Kyle Brown by his own actions and knowing the consequence‘s came forward,that is the true mettle of a Soldier to admit what he did.

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Spr.Earl:
[qb] Cent no truer words ever said.

If I ever meet Kyle,I‘ll shake his hand and buy him a round of his choice or the best nosh I could afford.

Kyle Brown by his own actions and knowing the consequence‘s came forward,that is the true mettle of a Soldier to admit what he did. [/qb]

I went through Cornwallis with Kyle B. Nice guy, kinda quiet and not much family to speak of...Or protect him/fight for him now that I think of it.

 

[Foxhound]

Sorry to say this, but by the time I left the Forces in '86, the seeds of the destruction of the CAB had already been sown. Not necessarily by the troops, but the command and training structure probably made it inevitable.

For instance, while on a 6A course in Pet., I casually asked a Trooper where he had been before joining the Airborne. The response I got? "I was nothing, nowhere before the Airborne!!â ? Now this particular grunt was an intelligent thinking man, but when it came to the Regiment, no wrong could be done. In other words, they thought of themselves as little Gods and whatever they did, well the CF would just have to live with it. Admittedly this was quite a while before Somalia, but it shows that even way back then the rot had already set in. Atypical of the rank and file within the Regiment, I also met several NCO's who carried with them the very best of the traditions of Commonwealth forces in general and the Canadian Army in particular, but they obviously weren't enough to stem the tide.

I agree with all who posted that the disbandment of the CAB was premature, inappropriate and all out of proportion. We miss them terribly, but the CAB should never have been sent to Somalia in the first place. The Airborne existed to kick AÃ…Å“Ã…Å“ and chew bubble gum, neither of which was necessary in Africa.

Shock troops never make the best peacekeepers. If you want to know who destroyed the Canadian Airborne Regiment, one need look no further than Parliament.

Godd save the Quoon

 

[GerryCan]

www.canadianalliance.ca

 

[excoelis]

In other words, they thought of themselves as little Gods and whatever they did, well the CF would just have to live with it. Admittedly this was quite a while before Somalia, but it shows that even way back then the rot had already set in.

Got a bit of an axe to grind, do we????
So the comments of one trooper where indicative of the whole unit‘s attitude as you perceive it???

Funny thing about young troops, they are loyal to a fault, and their loyalties, however misguided they display them, can shift with their current situation.

The Airborne existed to kick AÃ…Å“Ã…Å“ and chew bubble gum, neither of which was necessary in Africa.

Oh.....Really??? So when, if ever, have you been to Africa to formulate this opinion that it was such a cakewalk? I can personally attest to the operational conditions and they where some of the worst I have ever experienced.

Shock troops never make the best peacekeepers

Fact. It wasn‘t peacekeeping!!!

If you want to know who destroyed the Canadian Airborne Regiment, one need look no further than Parliament.

Good to see we agree on one of your statements, although it seems to contradict the others.

My statement: If you want to know why the Canadian Airborne Regt is still getting dragged through the mud, re-read your own post.

 

[Infanteer]

Ex-coelis, Jungle:

Do you guys feel that the literature out their (Bercuson, Col English, even the Inquiry Reports) is pretty accurate, or is it out to lunch?

 

[Jungle]

To be honest, I haven‘t read all that much about it... The few books I‘ve read were mostly written by guys who have served in the Regt.

 

[excoelis]

I‘ve read Significant Incident, Scapegoat, the results of the inquiry (some of it anyway).....etc. Most of it is that person‘s version of events based on their ‘investigative journalism‘. I took issue with a lot of what was said and that could partly be due to a defensive posture and first-hand knowledge of a lot of the events being ‘reported‘. In the end though the majority of troops that where there don‘t really discuss the whole thing much because they have a ‘soldier on‘ attitude. I for one only spent a 1/3 of my career in the Regiment, but it had a profound effect on my military ethos, and I mean that in a positive way. I am, and always was, a proud Canadian, a loyal Royal, and proud to have served in a Regt surrounded by like-minded, hard working, and dedicated SOLDIERS. I run into guys all the time that I served with in the Abn Regt and the common denominator is that the vast majority have all risen to the top of their trade, civilian vocation, or respective parent Regiments. So the Regt must have been doing something right, no???

If you want an honest account of the events from a 3 Commando soldiers perspective, read Rob‘s diaries on Commando.org. He spins an entertaining yarn as he saw things unfold, warts and all. Be forewarned though, he‘s a bit of a granola head