TF 1-07

[Donut]

Well put, Guns.

Don't piss on their faces and tell them it's raining, tell them the sit, treat them like the good adult troops they are, and they'll perform.  Treat 'em like crap, and watch them walk away.

 

[Gunner]

Really?  If the CF needs res augmentees, then maybe that is the place to spend some resources.

And where would you like to take the millions of dollars from?  Try reading or quoting my full post vice picking a portion of it to disagree with.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if the CF is counting and relying on Res mbrs coming forward to serve on these deployments, and they pull pin halfway through due to shitty accomodations and poor tng standards, then maybe this is EXACTLY where we need to spend some resources, else we can't staff and deploy the TFs.

Accn and trg stds are two different things.  I can rationalize poor accn but I can't rationalize poor trg/trg stds.

I've got lots of buddies who've been, are tng to go, or are chomping at the bit to get over there; hell, I've got family in the same boat, some who've been there three or four times to date, and I salute them for it.  Those who are reservists are sucking hind teat every time they get in line, and that's making many others debate why they would do it.

Lots of Regs waiting in line...part of being in the army.

Acknowledging that G'town is unique (boy is it ever), treating augmentees like crap is what got WATC into the crap bin it's been in for the past several years; demonstrating that the soldiers are valued members of the team, fairly treated and well looked, after is the solution.

ASU Wx/WATC are trying to provide more services to reservists/augmentees and they have come a long way.  I hope you took the opporunity to suggest improvements via the augmentee survey (if it was done this year).

Cheers,

 

[Donut]

Gunner, I've heard that watc was a fundamentally different place these past several years; that's a reaction to the poor treatment in the past, and I did read your post (and agree with the bulk of it)

I'm also not saying to strip funds from other projects, what's there is probably not enough as it is.

BUT, if the CF needs the augmentees, which it sounds an awful lot like they do, then treating those that volunteer like shite isn't the way to get them.  It's HR management, which the CF should be pretty dang good at by now.

Cheers,
DF

 

[R031button]

ASU Wx/WATC are trying to provide more services to reservists/augmentees and they have come a long way.  I hope you took the opporunity to suggest improvements via the augmentee survey (if it was done this year).

THe survey was done, and I have to say that I appreciated the obvious intent in better services, ie: the internet cafe, it is not so much the things I, and many fellow augmentees, had or didn't have access to that lowered our moral at WATC; it was the lack of purpose and the overal attitude expressed by WATC towards treatment of augmentees, in perticular a certain high level NCO addressing WATC pt and saying "This isn't the Cadets, this isn't the Reserves, your in the army now," neatly summerized to many of us how we were regarded and where we fit at WATC.

 

[Gunner]

R031 - Those same sentiments were expressed to me back in the 80s.  My advice, suck it up, move on and don't treat your soldiers that way when you make it up the chain of command.  If you let the comments by one "high level NCO" dictate your future...you are selling yourself, and the army, short.   

BUT, if the CF needs the augmentees, which it sounds an awful lot like they do, then treating those that volunteer like shite isn't the way to get them.  It's HR management, which the CF should be pretty dang good at by now.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you and alot of the BS could have been solved with proper planning.  However, if you are looking for air force style accn...join the air force.  I would prefer our limited $ be spent elsewhere. 

 

[Steve 1 RNFLDR]

In the next day or so, I need to make up my mind whether to drop out of university for another year and go on TF 1-07.  As it is, I am uneasy about the whole thing in light of the quality of training I received on my DP1 this summer; seemed like we were just going through the motions.  If an ex - Sig Op finds an infantry course unchallenging, something is wrong, in my opinion.  Hearing that the predeployment training seems to be something of a clusterf*** does nothing to ease my mind.  I find myself missing the regulars.  If anybody would like to offer a description of the calibre of training, I would appreciate it if you would PM me, if you don't wish to describe it publicly.  Thanks.

 

[GUNS]

As I am on the sidelines, my view is as an observer. My military backround allows me some understanding of military policies and procedures. I fail to understand how in this day and age we still can't get it right. If the military was a civilian organization, it would have folded long ago.

My military background has served me well in my civilian life and career. If it works for me in civilian life, why isn't it working for soldiers.
My training is from years ago but it still applies today, why does it not apply now.

In my days you did what had to be done to complete your task or mission, if you screwed up, you took your lumps and moved on to the next task or mission. It would appear that is not happening now. The cheapest and quickest way to correct a problem is to listen to the people that have the problem. Try to solve the problem and in the process, keep your people informed. You will be surprised how people will react when they now someone is actually trying to do something. Main thing is to keep your people informed.

If you screw up, admit to it. If a scheduled task can not happen, tell your people why, don't leave them sitting around waiting for direction.
This is very basic Man Management Skills so why isn't it happening. What this TF needs is for someone to take control, kick some butt, and make things happen. To accomplish this that person has to firstly listen to his/her soldiers. You may be surprised how little effort is needed to turn your people from "not pleased" to "pleased".

For the sake of those that will be in A'gan soon do it now

 

[Pte.Shrubb]

Ya a good friend of mine is on TF 1-77 and theres a bunch of guys from my unit and some friends on it as well. I hear about the problems all the time. Some were how they were sleeping in shacks in gagetown then out to argonaut then back into the base then out there again. I also hear how they havent been paid properly the whole time. They lost alot of people who orginally signed up for it to all of these problems.

 

[geo]

well... now that summer courses are completed, things should get back to "normal"
quarters that were not available should now be..... available.

Let's turn the page and move on.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

As I am on the sidelines, my view is as an observer. My military backround allows me some understanding of military policies and procedures. I fail to understand how in this day and age we still can't get it right. If the military was a civilian organization, it would have folded long ago.

Guns-

I understand your frustration, but we (the military) very nearly DID fold.  Remember the 1990s?  DND was everyone's favorite source to raid for funds.  We are not out of the woods yet by a long shot and it will take several more years to undo the damage caused by a hostile Govt and an apathetic public. 

Sorry that your son is having a crappy go.

And for the record, Air Force accommodations  aren't as good you might think, either.  Visit Warrior Block in Shearwater, sometime.

 

[Gunner]

And for the record, Air Force accommodations  aren't as good you might think, either.  Visit Warrior Block in Shearwater, sometime.

There is always an exception to the rule.  Mind you, why would any sane person go to Shearwater? 

 

[geo]

Transit quarters at Trenton aren't bad though...........

 

[GUNS]

well... now that summer courses are completed, things should get back to "normal"
quarters that were not available should now be..... available.

Let's turn the page and move on.

Geo,
No offence intended but the military has been turning the page and moving on for to long. Correct the problem, then you won't have to turn the page so often.

 

[paracowboy]

Guns,

your civvie to mil comparison is more appropriate than you think, as most of the problems one experiences with regards to accomodations, etc, is directly resulting from the OVER-WHELMING preponderance of civilians involved in what should be soldier's jobs.

 

[geo]

Lots of changes are happening at this time.

Won't make excuses for people who should know better.
From what I've seen, LFQA is currently doing a decent job of ramping up it's own TFs... which was not the case 2 yrs ago.  Some people are learning, more will.....

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Guns,

your civvie to mil comparison is more appropriate than you think, as most of the problems one experiences with regards to accomodations, etc, is directly resulting from the OVER-WHELMING preponderance of civilians involved in what should be soldier's jobs.

Owned +1

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Owned +1

So did the troops ever get "permament accn's" after ARTS and ARCON is all stood down now I wonder?  This seemed to be one of the biggest issues (for everyone in Gagetown, not just TF1-07).

Soon time for MG, on the bus again!

 

[GUNS]

From what I have been told - they are going to continue with their contracts and if the situation worstens some very hard decisions will be made when it comes time to sign another contract.

I would suggest that since their training will be 90% complete by contract time, they might as well continue with the mission.( vast majority will).

One sidenote from all of this, many had expressed interest in switching to Reg. Force after the deployment but have reconsidered because of the way the TF had been conducted.

Someone said on this thread that "Some people are learning and more will", with respect of preparing TF's for deployment,which I agree with. The unfortunate thing is the soldiers that were used as training aids have had their attitude of the military drastically altered.

 

[geo]

unfortunately an old and all too familiar story....
Leaders learning their lessons on the backs of their troops.

And CTC being a training base VS having an Operational Bde stationed there.... they will learn, learn AND learn again......... SIGH

 

[17thRecceSgt]

But...this isn't the first time the major unit we are talking about here in Gtown has deployed...maybe to this particular patch of ground but...its not like they have never left the unit lines.

From what I have been hearing, the troops that are in with the Bn are quite happy, its the RCG types that are not...and even some of the NCE/NSE types.

I hope they all stick it out.  I know if it were me, years later, and I thought back to "I could have went and been a part of that" and then realized I opted out do to Admin fow-pah's and some frustration, I am sure I would regret it.  I am sure I would REALLY regret it when the boys and girls came back and I wasn't one of them with the gong and the stories in the Mess to go along with it. 

But thats just me.

Hang in their boys, if you are getting 3 meals and shite-tickets, it isn't all that bad!