Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]

[agc]

Points for this:

The bottom line though is that you should pick a trade and make the decision to become and officer vs going NCM by figuring out what you want to do. Once you work in the pension and other benefits you will be living comfortably no matter what path you choose. The important thing is that you enjoy your trade and are happy.

As for:

For Naval Electronics Technician after BMQ, there’s a 18 months apprentice training, and then 12 months of journeyman training, so yes roughly 2.5 to 3 years of training.
Can someone be promoted during those 3 years, or will you pretty much be a Private through out.

It could take longer than 4 years to get promoted to Leading Seaman (Corporal's pay) in this occupation (now W Eng Tech), and then you have to complete all of your QL5  (Journeyman's) training before you will become entitled to Specialist pay.

 

[nickanick]

So does it means some spec NCM have the same/higher pay as Officer? (As if from the beginning of the service)

 

[jeffb]

So does it means some spec NCM have the same/higher pay as Officer? (As if from the beginning of the service)

Maybe. There is so much that goes into what your pay is beyond your rank level. If we look at an officer who is DEO after 3 years you'll find that he is probably a Captain (or Lt if Navy). Captain starts at 5887 depending on the trade. (Pilots and medical officers make more for example). If you are really interested, you can check out the CBI at http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/doc/204-02.pdf

I'll say it once again though, don't get wrapped around the axle when it comes to pay for choosing your career.

 

[GreenIsGood]

A recruiter in the Montreal CFRC boiled the DOE-vs-NCM issue down to one question: "Do you want to do hands-on work ?"

His point is that NCM is hand-on work whereas officer work is generally hands-off managerial work.

Hope that helps.

 

[jemcgrg]

I'd personally wait it out if nothing interests you now. As an officer (I mean you have the qualifications for training...assuming you passed any officer testing after you apply with your degree) you are going to be leading many of those who are in the NCM positions. It would be hard to take an NCM job (especially if you wanted this job full time) and know "I could have been that officer in command of my team".

This is exactly why I didn't change to AC OP when AEC closed this year.

 

[gunzgirl85]

Hello everyone,

I'll give you a little background first...I'm in my mid 20's, and I was a CIC officer until last year (I finished as a Slt). I have a B.Sc. and an M.Sc in Chemistry, and I've worked for government research since finishing school (1.5 years). The thing with a degree in science is I am a do-er, not a "sit at a desk and do paperwork-er". I liked being a CIC officer, but I hated the admin part (ironically I was the admin officer).

Now that my carrier has derailed a little (not much funding in sciences because of budget cuts, working at stats can instead) I would like to do something more exciting! I always wanted to do a job where I could travel and experience new adventures..Sounds sappy right? CIC didn't really fulfill my craving for a sense of purpose or adventure...

Anyway, I have a masters degree, and about 26000$ in student loans. My last job payed around 50k.

I went to the recruitment office today to see about becoming a Biosciences Officer, but I don't have the exact educational requirements (chemistry instead of biology...). I'm not really interested in many of the officer trades... Also, many of the trades I can apply for require a general bachelor degree, which I would argue is a little of a let down in applied knowledge.

However, a lot of the NCM trades look interesting (namely the radio medical imaging, sonar and radar techs). I really like imaging, and I have a lot of knowledge on imaging techniques..the bulk of my master's thesis was on cellular imaging for cancer detection. Some of my problems with joining as an NCM are:
-Almost all of my friends are officers, as well as my boyfriend. This difference in level might be difficult to deal with..
-The beginning pay scale as a private is not sufficient to cover my costs (on unemployment insurance I make almost the same and its hard to make ends meet..and I don't have a vehicle, children, or pets, just me!) I think I'm worth more than what they are offering for privates.. I would be 30 and not making what I made 3 months ago!
-The promotion rate as an NCM is very slow, whereas as an Officer I can make 2Lt or ASlt after BOTC (I still hold a commission)
-I'm only a little older than the 2lts getting out of university, but I would be much older than my NCM peers out of high school

Do the pros outweigh the cons for NCM enrollment? Or should I keep trying to find a good fit for an officer trade (hopefully one that is hiring soon..) ?

Thanks for all your help and I look forward to your advise

 

[Zoomie]

Stick with the Officer route - find a career that interests you and will continue to do so in the future.

 

[MedCorps]

Agreed.  Find an Officer job that interests you and go that route.

MC

 

[RCDtpr]

Would you rather be an officer or an NCM?  Me asking you seems redundant based on your post but that's really all there is to it.

If you feel you are too good to be a private then don't be an NCM.  That said...be prepared as an officer cadet, 2lt and LT to not make much money.  Obviously I'm not speaking from experience but every troop leader I've had has said the same thing....you don't make a good salary until Captain.  You will be promoted to Captain in roughly the same amount of time it would take you to become a corporal.

As a captain you are far from guaranteed to ever becoming a major....so your argument that promotion is slower as an NCM is simply incorrect.

Again, this is a decision you need to make based on what you would rather do with your life.

 

[aesop081]

I think I'm worth more than what they are offering for privates..

Unfortunately, they are not going to change the pay for Privates for you. Only you can decide if it's worth the "hit" based o your job selection.

-The promotion rate as an NCM is very slow,

Promotions are merit-based so it can be very slow or very fast depending on the individual. I'm a good example of the fast side of things : Cpl to (shortly) WO in less that 7 years.

 

[helpup]

As a captain you are far from guaranteed to ever becoming a major .

A capt will have allot more pay incentives though and in the end make more then what a MWO will.  (one of the few reasons my wife CFRed)

There are also other threads about this topic that will give more information.  Even with your debt load you should be able to make ends meet if you go NCM.  There are those with family and kids and debt who join in their late 20's-30's.  Depending on how you budget it is being done.  There are also depending on trade spec pay and other allowances that can help mitigate things. 

As for knowing allot of friends who are officers.  I am not trying to be presumptuous here but there are many married couples of Officer/NCM level and or even just friends.  There is still a line in uniform that is not crossed but we are more liberal in that attitude then say 15 + years ago.

 

[gunzgirl85]

Thanks everyone,
I talked to my officer friends and I think they've convinced me to go the officer route. I already have a commission and may be eligible for IPC level bonus since I was a "reserve" officer for 5 years. And then eventually I eventually can be in charge of the sonar and radar techs lol
I'm not much for driving a ship, but it does lead to other interesting jobs. However, if my dream job in the civilian world comes through then I'll be satisfied.

"That said...be prepared as an officer cadet, 2lt and LT to not make much money.  Obviously I'm not speaking from experience but every troop leader I've had has said the same thing....you don't make a good salary until Captain.  You will be promoted to Captain in roughly the same amount of time it would take you to become a corporal."

The pay rates for 2lt, and Lt are a lot better than the private rate. As well, Lt make about what I made in my last job. In my line of work it would take at least 10-15 years to make what a Capt makes (if ever), so I'm not that worried for waiting. Currently I'm making 38K in a clerk jobs for stats can; nothing at all like my last job as a researcher.

 

[Chang]

Get that CT application in early too... 2 of my friends who are CT/OT MARS (one from CIC, one from army reserves) have been waiting for over a year and a half for the NOAB call.

 

[Trick]

Hi Gunz,

Liked reading your post as I'm in a slightly similar position. I'm finishing a MSc right now though in bio. As a sidenote- I'm a cancer researcher, I work with lots of chems/physicists in imaging! It seems you've made your decision, but I'd also recommend you use that education and join up as an officer. I don't want to come off as a snob/elitist, but the kind of education you have is worth much more than the technical skills you've acquired and is something few are lucky enough to have. As you already have your MSc you're in the highest group for education (same as PhD), and with a decent application outside of it, it will certainly help you get up to a level 4 or even 5 priority pretty easily I think.

Personally, I have about a year left in my MSc, but finally submitted everything today (Infantry Officer) and am writing my CFAT soon. I really have in mind to apply next year as if I actually get in any time soon it'll mean leaving my degree unfinished which I'd rather not do (but would be willing to do if given a spot). Personally I think I'll be too late for this year as I have to go through the lengthy loyalty check for time spent studying in Germany, but no harm in seeing how it goes. Ha, I understand your motivations for wanting to join up. Unless you have an NCM trade you're dead-set on though, my own 2 cents would be to do the officer thing. Many other people on hear that know more than me though- I'm only at the start of the process.

Best of luck,

 

[cnobbs84]

Hey,

I just made that decision myself... With the economy sill stagnate more and more university grads are looking to join the forces. And becoming an officer is getting harder and harder. I have chosen to
with drawl from the DEO route and go NCM for the time being. I have selected a trade that works with my degree so after a few years in the forces i can than play the degree trump card. it was a hard decision
to make but in the long run it ill pay off.

 

[Trick]

I suppose it would depend on the trade, but from what I've seen there's even more competition in the NCM trades, especially those without many academic requirements.

 

[Silverfire]

At this point, getting into the CF in general is tough.  They're really only taking the best at this point.  Having a degree isn't something only officers have.  I've seen numerous NCM's with bachelors and masters.  If one hasn't graduated high school as a bare minimum, they're going to struggle getting in nowadays.

 

[jwtg]

i can than play the degree trump card.

Your degree is hardly a trump card, and does not guarantee that you will ever become an officer. Yes, there are methods of going from NCM to Officer but I believe if you speak to the people who are in the process, or who have tried or completed the process, you will find that it is far from automatic.

Many will enter, few will win!

 

[cnobbs84]

what i mean was, i have a better chance than other who try to work their way up thru the ranks. I understand that i would not become an officer overnight and that it does take time, however i may get in the trade which i know ill enjoy and make up my mind i may never want to be an officer, but i always have my degree to fall back on.  but either way i want to serve in the forces either as an officer or as ncm so either way is a win win for myself

 

[aesop081]

i have a better chance than other who try to work their way up thru the ranks.

You will have the same chance as everyone else. While you already have a degree, your performance as an NCM and your leadership potential will play a much larger part in deciding if you make it into an in-service commissioning program. Having a degree does not mean you excel at these two things.