Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]

[vhaust]

Thanks guys for the replies. 

 

[Ayrsayle]

As a note regarding being educated in French and posting in an English area of the forums - I have yet to see an individual get dressed down for poor grammar when they have identified themselves as being native French speakers. Quite the opposite!

Not saying it has not happened, just that I have yet to see it. I like to think most members can see the difference between sloppy grammar and a struggle to use it effectively. Defending a right to sloppy grammar however would fall under the former.

My opinion, of course.

 

[Pusser]

As a note regarding being educated in French and posting in an English area of the forums - I have yet to see an individual get dressed down for poor grammar when they have identified themselves as being native French speakers. Quite the opposite!

Not saying it has not happened, just that I have yet to see it. I like to think most members can see the difference between sloppy grammar and a struggle to use it effectively. Defending a right to sloppy grammar however would fall under the former.

My opinion, of course.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.  The difference between a lazy approach to writing and writing in your second language is usually quite obvious. 

 

[George Wallace]

What I am trying to say is some guys posting on this forum are youngsters,
or guys with a relatively small background in education under the English system,
and I believe that a certain degree of tolerance for grammatical mistakes should be endowed.

On the other hand, a lab manual or textbook with sentences that are hard to comprehend should
receive a smaller portion of tolerance because they are expected to be professionals,
especially if the author of the manual has a Ph.D in front of his name.

Also, these manuals are most likely reviewed by publishers and that should add
an extra filter to miscommunications.

Huh? 

I have no idea of what you are trying to say.

If someone comes onto this site and claims to be a holder of a university Degree and communicates like a High School dropout, then they will be targeted for this type treatment and ostracized for their lack of writing skills. 

 

[M2]

I've read this thread and aside from grammar, of which I am ever mindful, I have a question pertinent to this topic.

Having previously served both in the ResF and RegF, I returned to the ResF to complete my MA in political science following an Honours BA in business and political science. I have completed six years of reserve service with a year spent with the RegF on deployment in TFA 3-06 and two years in the RegF with deployment on TFA 3-08. Still happily a Corporal, I'm looking to return to the service with a masters degree and am seeking your advice on a potential commission. Prior to leaving the RegF, I was ranked favourably to attend PLQ though not having completed my BA at the time, I felt compelled to return to my alma mater as a reservist. Checking with the officer in charge of career's in L-101 (Pet), she instructed me that a UTP-NCM would only be possible pending board selection the following March 2010 (my contract was up Sept 2009 in time for fall term at university) so naturally faced with the known and unknown, I chose the known route and decided to pay my own way through the rest of my degree.

So school's done, the economy nears another (deeper?) recession and while I have a passion for political science, the degree is primarily only useful as a signal to potential service-sector employers. While I could enter this workforce, I don't want to spend the rest of my life revising insurance policy, executing deliverables to VP's or taking part in "casual Friday's" knowing that out there, in the field, be it on exercise or for real, my good friends I made in the Army are doing what I really enjoyed. I prefer to return to my Army family and be as useful as possible to the service.

Would you gentlemen (and of course ladies) be kind enough to give direction or comments as to commissioning? While I was a combat engineer as an NCM, I don't believe I can enter this MOC as an officer in absence of a B.Eng. The alternative I am looking at is to join the infantry as I would prefer not to join other (potentially more appropriate?) MOC's such as public affairs as I prefer fieldwork now in my youth.

Looking for your guidance friends.

-Matt

 

[dangles]

Looking for your guidance friends.
-Matt

Although I have no previous experience, I can offer you some small guidance. It seems you want to use your masters degree to become an Officer and get the most of your money...which is completely understandable.

However, it also seems you want to do the work of a NCM based on your strong desire to do field work. Unfortunately, just looking at some of the information from the www.forces.ca website, even the Officers in the Combat Arms have to do a lot of administrative work, or work akin to "revising policies, executing deliverables." This administrative work only increases if you are going to make a career out of being an Officer in the CF.

Regardless, you should realize that you don't need to be on the pointy end of the stick to make a difference in the Canadian Forces. The CF is a conglomerate of trades that are equally important in order for the CF to function smoothly. Although as an Officer you may not be out in the field every day, you are still an invaluable member of an organization dedicated to making a difference. So my advice would be to keep in mind the inherent differences between an Officer and a NCM, and join a trade you would want to make a career out of, regardless of the pay scale.

 

[Franko]

Although I have no previous experience, I can offer you some small guidance. It seems you want to use your masters degree to become an officer and get the most of your money...which is completely understandable.

However, it also seems you want to do the work of a NCM based on your strong desire to do field work. Unfortunately, just looking at some of the information from the www.forces.ca website, even the officers in the Combat Arms have to do a lot of administrative work, or work akin to "revising policies, executing deliverables." This administrative work only increases if you are going to make a career out of being an Officer in the army.

Regardless, you should realize that you don't need to be on the pointy end of the stick to make a difference in the Canadian Forces. The CF is a conglomerate of trades that are equally important in order for the CF to function smoothly. Although as an Officer you may not be out in the field every day, you are still an invaluable member of an organization dedicated to making a difference. So my advice would be to keep in mind the inherent differences between an Officer and a NCM, and join a trade you would want to make a career out of, regardless of the pay scale.

Officer

Just an observation.

Regards

 

[Pusser]

I've read this thread and aside from grammar, of which I am ever mindful, I have a question pertinent to this topic.

Having previously served both in the ResF and RegF, I returned to the ResF to complete my MA in political science following an Honours BA in business and political science. I have completed six years of reserve service with a year spent with the RegF on deployment in TFA 3-06 and two years in the RegF with deployment on TFA 3-08. Still happily a Corporal, I'm looking to return to the service with a masters degree and am seeking your advice on a potential commission. Prior to leaving the RegF, I was ranked favourably to attend PLQ though not having completed my BA at the time, I felt compelled to return to my alma mater as a reservist. Checking with the officer in charge of career's in L-101 (Pet), she instructed me that a UTP-NCM would only be possible pending board selection the following March 2010 (my contract was up Sept 2009 in time for fall term at university) so naturally faced with the known and unknown, I chose the known route and decided to pay my own way through the rest of my degree.

So school's done, the economy nears another (deeper?) recession and while I have a passion for political science, the degree is primarily only useful as a signal to potential service-sector employers. While I could enter this workforce, I don't want to spend the rest of my life revising insurance policy, executing deliverables to VP's or taking part in "casual Friday's" knowing that out there, in the field, be it on exercise or for real, my good friends I made in the Army are doing what I really enjoyed. I prefer to return to my Army family and be as useful as possible to the service.

Would you gentlemen (and of course ladies) be kind enough to give direction or comments as to commissioning? While I was a combat engineer as an NCM, I don't believe I can enter this MOC as an officer in absence of a B.Eng. The alternative I am looking at is to join the infantry as I would prefer not to join other (potentially more appropriate?) MOC's such as public affairs as I prefer fieldwork now in my youth.

Looking for your guidance friends.

-Matt

I understand what you are getting at.  Yes, there are a multitude of officer occupations (e.g. infantry, armour, artillery, MARS, Pilot, Air Nav, etc) for which your academic background is suitable and in which you will have plenty of opportunity for "fieldwork."  Altough Political Science is not a "preferred" degree for Logistics, it is an "acceptable" degree.  If you really liked blowing stuff up with the Engineers, LogOs (specifically Ammunition Technical Officers - ATOs) get to dabble in that.  Just keep in mind that as an officer, there will be plenty of administration (i.e. "paperwork") to do in addition to (i.e. not instead of) the fieldwork.

 

[Windsorite]

I applied DEO to MARS back in May 2010, I have been delayed in getting merit listed due to long form security check for my time completing my Master's degree in Australia. I have just been informed today that I am ineligible for MARS because I do not hold a Canadian University degree (BA from Ohio and MA from Australia). There was no justification as to why this is.

It was very upsetting news as this was something I was very passionate about pursuing.

So if anyone is interested in holding out on a MARS position make sure you have a degree from a Canadian University - just something to think about.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . . . I have just been informed today that I am ineligible for MARS because I do not hold a Canadian University degree (BA from Ohio and MA from Australia). There was no justification as to why this is.

. . . . .

So if anyone is interested in holding out on a MARS position make sure you have a degree from a Canadian University - just something to think about.

That seems odd, as the DAOD on the DEO Plan states:
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-2-eng.asp

educational requirements

a degree in a suitable discipline from a Canadian university, or an equivalent recognized degree from a foreign university or education institution; and

other additional qualifications in accordance with the occupational specifications set out in A-PD-055-002/PP-001, Canadian Forces Manual of Military Occupational Structure - Occupational Specification

Having known and served with several (maybe dozens of) officers who received their university education outside Canada, my only conclusion is that there is more to the story.

 

[Allgunzblazing]

MARS is also one of my occupation choices. I am a new Canadian and all my education was done abroad. However, none of the recruiting staff have told me that I was not eligible for MARS. When I had first gone to the CFRC, the recruiter asked if I had got my degrees evaluated for Canadian equivalency. I told him that I had done that already, after which he took copies of the degrees, transcripts and the credential evaluation report given to me by the International Credential Evaluation Service. That was it, simple and straight.

 

[Windsorite]

MARS is also one of my occupation choices. I am a new Canadian and all my education was done abroad. However, none of the recruiting staff have told me that I was not eligible for MARS. When I had first gone to the CFRC, the recruiter asked if I had got my degrees evaluated for Canadian equivalency. I told him that I had done that already, after which he took copies of the degrees, transcripts and the credential evaluation report given to me by the International Credential Evaluation Service. That was it, simple and straight.

Allgunblazing,

I too had my degrees evaluated for Canadian equivalency, and it too was simple and straight.

Recently, my application was transferred to another office that now handles regular force applications in the region. Literally today, I received a call from my new contact at the recruitment office, he wanted to update me on current situations because he didn't know what my original recruiter has/has not informed me of. He told me that there was an announcement in May 2011 informing recruiters to stop processing any applicants with degrees outside of Canada for MARS positions. He said he had the sheet right in front of him and he wanted to let me know as I will have to change occupations. I asked him if there was any reason for this and he said none was given with the announcement.

If you have been given other information please let me know because I still don't understand the rationale for this.

 

[Allgunzblazing]

This is really strange... If more than one recruiting staff have told you that degree awarded from foreign universities are not accepted for MARS, then there must surely be some new directive. Maybe the recruiting folks did not mention it to me because right now this trade is closed.

 

[gatz]

I've been "in the system" for a while now, and I have completed my CFAT as well as the airnav test. Unfortunately some of my medical paperwork got tied up and as a result I missed the board date for RMC (I was applying for ACSO). As I will have completed over two years of university come next board date I will be disqualified for ROTP, and thus my only other option is to join a reserve unit while completing my degree in a civilian university.

I have decided on joining an infantry reserve unit, but I'm not sure whether to enter as an officer cadet or as an NCM. Does anybody have any insight to offer on the duties and expectations of these career paths while in the reserves? I tried to search this forum but I couldn't seem to find any relevant posts.

Thank you

 

[Trick]

Just to clarify- you intend on going into the reg force after you graduate with your undergrad? Also, are you sure you're not longer eligible for ROTP? I was under the impression that so long as you're working towards your degree, you are eligible.

The only personal input I have is that a friend of mine, a grad student (so not undergrad) was an officer in the reserves and said it wasn't a good choice- it's very hard to balance the demands. But we're in the medical sciences, where grad school is basically just a poorly paying job rather than "school" so that may not apply to you really.

I think it would be a good idea to go down to your local reserve unit and just talk to people around there. I'm sure they'll give you good advice based on your own situation.

 

[CountDC]

Trick is right - your future plans in regards to regular force is a factor.  I would imagine if planning to join there as an officer then it would be better to join the reserves as an officer vice ncm.

In the old days when I was reserve working at LFAAHQ the view point was that it was better to join the reserves as an NCM and the Regular as an Officer.  The  reasoning was that there were more jobs for NCMs than Officers which was important considering most were students.  The reason for Regular force officer was based purely on the pension aspect - most will reach the rank of Capt and receive a higher pension than most do as NCM's.

 

[jwtg]

I have decided on joining an infantry reserve unit, but I'm not sure whether to enter as an officer cadet or as an NCM.

I wasn't aware that you could even enter the reserves as an OCdt except via RETP, which is similar to the ROTP or if you already had a degree and could be commissioned upon completing BMOQ.
I'm curious, if you want to enter the reserves as an officer, do you need to have a degree already? 

 

[gatz]

Yes, if all goes well I hope to enter the ASCO program through DEO. I'm 99% sure I'm no longer eligible, and if I was I have to admit my application is not as competitive as I'd like it to be so I think that all things considered reserves is the best choice for me at the moment.

I'm pursuing an undergrad in physics, I wonder if that will make my workload unmanageable? Is there anybody out there that has worked on a B.Sc while in the reserves as an officer cadet?

I've spoken with a Chief Warrant Officer in charge of reserve recruiting, and he would like me to decide on officer or NCM before he sets up an appointment with the commanding officer of the infantry regiment in question (which he will only have to do if I decide on officer anyway).

If there are any reserve members posting that could try to illustrate some differences between an officer cadet and a NCM I would be extremely grateful. Mainly I'm wondering which route would be most beneficial to my career in the future. Perhaps it would be ideal to serve as an NCM to "learn to ropes", or maybe it would help to be immediately immersed in the responsibility of being an officer. Is there even much of an different between an officer cadet and private when it comes to the reserve force?

 

[gatz]

I wasn't aware that you could even enter the reserves as an OCdt except via RETP, which is similar to the ROTP or if you already had a degree and could be commissioned upon completing BMOQ.
I'm curious, if you want to enter the reserves as an officer, do you need to have a degree already?

The impression I got today from the recruiting center was that if you are currently enrolled in university perusing a relevant degree, you may enter the reserves as on officer cadet. In order to be commissioned to 2Lt you must graduate, although once that happens I plan on entering the regular forces.


Edit: I just realized that should I enter as an officer cadet I will be stuck at that pay grade until I graduate, at which point I will no longer be in the reserve force. What is the average career progression of a reserve NCM over the course of ~2 1/2 to 3 years?

Thank you

 

[Brasidas]

The impression I got today from the recruiting center was that if you are currently enrolled in university perusing a relevant degree, you may enter the reserves as on officer cadet. In order to be commissioned to 2Lt you must graduate, although once that happens I plan on entering the regular forces.


Edit: I just realized that should I enter as an officer cadet I will be stuck at that pay grade until I graduate, at which point I will no longer be in the reserve force. What is the average career progression of a reserve NCM over the course of ~2 1/2 to 3 years?

Thank you

I've known several university students who have received a commission while completing their studies. They received their commission after Common Army Phase training (CAP) and before their occupational training.