Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]

[mike_a]

I originally applied to Canadian Forces about 18 months ago, for the MARS Officer trade within the Navy.
Unfortunately going through the application process delayed my process and the trade closed.
I was told to wait for April and hopefully the trade will open up again.
Now I'm being told that MARS Officer may not be on demand for another year and with my current university degree, MARS and Logistics officer are the only options that I have. However if I decide to enter as a NCM I would have much more options.

My question for you guys, is waiting for an officer trade to open up worth it? Beside pay scales, is there a huge difference between an Officer and NCM?
(Forgive me if my question might sound a bit less than intelligent, but I don’t know anyone in the Navy)
Thanks

 

[Hal Jordan]

My response is that it depends on what you're looking for in a career? A friend of mine has a university degree from a prestigious school, and he choose to be a NCM. He says it's a pretty rewarding experience, and wouldn't trade it for anything else. But that will differ from person to person. As for your pay scale question, it doesn't seem to be a big difference judging from the information in the CF website.

Some of the advice on this site that I got is that you shouldn't apply for a trade that you don't want, and then later switch into a more desirable trade. According to some people on this site, it's best to just go for the more desirable trade and wait. I think the advice is sound, but that's ultimately up to you.

cheers.

Hal

 

[jeffb]

As for your pay scale question, it doesn't seem to be a big difference judging from the information in the CF website.

You may want to re-read the CBI table as this statement is simply not correct.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Beside pay scales, is there a huge difference between an Officer and NCM?

Yes there is a big difference.  You walk into a management level position as opposed to spending years working your way there.  You also get to drink beer with the admirals and a lot of interesting people.

 

[srhodes]

From viewing the NCM trades on the CF website, are there any that catch your eye or appeal to you?  I think every applicant to the CF (whether they are going Officer route or NCM route) have maybe one or two trades in the other stream that catch their eye. 

I would agree that it makes good sense to go for one that really interests you, but then again it is kind of disappointing to apply for a NCM trade that you could have perhaps gotten fresh out of high-school as a 19 year-old.  Post secondary isn’t cheap, and neither was the time (years)  you spent on getting the degree.  To have that count for nothing  is a tough pill to swallow.

Ps. 18 months?  Geez, that’a long time.  Was the delay because of something you did or the CF did?

Pss. To Hal.  What NCM trade did your friend from the prestigious school get that you were mentioning?  Curious!

 

[airdelta2]

I'd personally wait it out if nothing interests you now. As an officer (I mean you have the qualifications for training...assuming you passed any officer testing after you apply with your degree) you are going to be leading many of those who are in the NCM positions. It would be hard to take an NCM job (especially if you wanted this job full time) and know "I could have been that officer in command of my team".

Plus as that other poster said: You're essentially spending years as an NCM to work up to a management/NCM officer position....when you have the degree already. But you said your degree only gives you two options, that can't be. MAYBE only those two are currently open...but there's people with all sorts of degree(s) in pilot, acso, aec, armour, infantry, military police, mars, intel...they just 'prefer' a trade specific degree...however if you have any social science/arts degree then you qualify for most officer trades.

I am applying next year for DEO to a few different officer positions with a social science BA...RC told me that 'almost any degree will do for these officer positions' and there were at least 6-7 options.

 

[mike_a]

Originally I walked into my recruitment centre to apply for the Imagery Technician position, shortly after I found out that, Image Tech openings are extremly rare and they mostly go to people that are already in the CF.
My recruiter mentioned to me maybe I should apply for the DEO, having seen my degree, which by the way is Bachelor of Design.
At the time I was applying, MARS officer was on demand, so I put my name down for that. It toke CF around 18 months to process my file, it toke them only 12 months to submit my security clearance.
Right now there are openings for Naval Electronics Technician in Communications and Sonar, which sounds amazing to me, because I always loved electronics, but on the other hand, being an Officer on a ship doesn't sound bad either from all the recruitment videos on the CF's website.
Has anyone had to make the same decision? Am I stressing too much about this?

 

[taerakwon]

You got to find a trade that you believe it can be your life time career.  I am only listed for AEC, though I first applied to AEC and LOG.  My degree is HBsc (Biochemistry & Neuroscience), and with my degree, I believe that I was able to apply to all following trades: 1. Aerospace Control Officer, 2. Air Combat systems Officer , 3. Armour Officer, 4. Artillery Officer, 5. Bioscience Officer, 6. Infantry Officer, 7. Logistics Officer, 8. Maritime Surface and Sub-surface Officer, and 9. Signals Officer.  I decided to stick only to AEC, although my recruiter told me that AEC is a very competitive to enter, because I am just so passionate, maybe having some sort of affections, with AEC position.  I just wish to become an AEC officer, then have it as my life lasting career.  For me, waiting is not a big deal because it is the only trade that I really want to pursue.  Do not try to change your trade after going through all training, etc, because if you become an officer, you are working as a leader whom is responsible for leading your own platoon; therefore, you got to build up your reliability and trust.  I believe, if you do not find anything interesting with CF, and if your intention to join is just for the taste of money, then I strongly suggest you to find a civilian occupation.  FIND A TRADE THAT SERIOUSLY INTERESTS YOU AND WAIT FOR IT.

 

[George Wallace]

I would agree that it makes good sense to go for one that really interests you, but then again it is kind of disappointing to apply for a NCM trade that you could have perhaps gotten fresh out of high-school as a 19 year-old.  Post secondary isn’t cheap, and neither was the time (years)  you spent on getting the degree.  To have that count for nothing  is a tough pill to swallow.

An education is never a waste of time.  It is recognized at all levels in the CF. 

Remember: a Degree does not make you a Leader.  As a non-ROTP Entry Plan, which DEO is, one will be/can be Released from the CF if they fail their initial Leadership training.  The CF has nothing invested in keeping you. 

As an NCM, your education is still of value.  You have more maturity than kids out of High School, a higher education, and may show the potential to advance at a much quicker pace through your choosen Trade and the ranks. 

We have other threads where people have asked these very same questions.  In the end, it is you who make your career choices and hopefully it will be choices that you truly desire and will be happy doing for a long period of time. 

 

[mike_a]

Just a follow up.

Last week I got a phone call to book my interview, the recruiter told me that makes much more sense to go for MARS Officer and leave the Naval Electronics Technician as a second option. He proceeded to saying that there are few spots available for MARS and he wants to push my application through for MARS.
On the interview day, the first thing that I was told by the career consultant was that “she has punched in few numbers in a program and that had concluded that I’m not a good fit for MARS Officer.” After that, she said that if I want we could continue the interview for the Naval Electronics Technician. I accepted that and now I’m waiting for my medical.
But I have to ask you guys something, is there really such a program? Was she testing me to see how bad I want to get into MARS, since that is competitive occupation?

 

[PuckChaser]

The recruiter wouldn't lie to you like that. Based on their experience, and seeing your info/scores, she concluded you would be a better fit for NET. You could have still said you wanted to carry on with MARS, but you took her advice. After all, it wasn't like they told you that none of your trade choices looked good, you very well may get your second choice, which happens to a lot of people.

 

[Sigil]

Sounds like a much different experience than the one I had. I was informed that you couldn't apply for both officer and NCM at the same time. You would have to submit a completely different application rather than mix and match on your trades choices.

I was also not told of any special program that rated your suitability for MARS (other than the CFAT and meriting process). I think they get more into that sort of thing at the NOAB.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

As for your pay scale question, it doesn't seem to be a big difference judging from the information in the CF website.

I can see why you would think this - an OCdt and Pte are paid almost exactly the same.  However the OP would be entering as a DEO A/SLt (aka 2Lt) and thus make nearly $1000/month more than a Pte.

Private Standard $2663
OCdt OCTP $2687
2Lt DEO $3644

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

You also get to drink beer with the admirals and a lot of interesting people.

  I wouldn't count on this part!

 

[mike_a]

Thanks for the clarification Lex.

On CF's website, assuming the Naval Electronics Technician would be considered a Corporal Specialist 1, it says that at the basic level, the monthly rate would come down to $5012. That's more than what 2Lt DEO makes.
Am I reading this correct?

 

[agc]

First you would have to earn the rank and become fully qualified in the occupation.  You still start out at the basic Pte rate of pay.

 

[nickanick]

First you would have to earn the rank and become fully qualified in the occupation.  You still start out at the basic Pte rate of pay.

It indicates that Pte pay scale only have 3 incline rates. I know if you don't get promote you will still stay at the same level.
However, 3 years is more than enough for completion of all education and training, is that right?

 

[chevalnoir]

However, 3 years is more than enough for completion of all education and training, is that right?

You'd think so.

In some trades you would be wrong.

 

[mike_a]

For Naval Electronics Technician after BMQ, there’s a 18 months apprentice training, and then 12 months of journeyman training, so yes roughly 2.5 to 3 years of training.
Can someone be promoted during those 3 years, or will you pretty much be a Private through out.

 

[jeffb]

And only a few trades get spec pay. For combat arms trades for example the only people that get promoted with 3 years are those who get advance promoted to Cpl and that can only happen at the 3 year mark.

The bottom line though is that you should pick a trade and make the decision to become and officer vs going NCM by figuring out what you want to do. Once you work in the pension and other benefits you will be living comfortably no matter what path you choose. The important thing is that you enjoy your trade and are happy.