Paid parking DND property

[TruckerJeff]

Hmmm, interesting. Are you inferring that there will be cuts to the Public Servants and military trades who currently utilize Crown Eqpt to plow out those parking lots?

If the work will be going to private contractors (Care, maint, etc) ... that "loss of work" would indicate 'cuts' to personnel as well. Who needs the PYs when "this part of your job" has disappeared.

Do you have some kind of insider information that PSAC is not yet aware of?? Or are you just speaking outside ...

FACT: for CFB Halifax next winter there will be NO overtime or shift diff paid to civilian employees for snow removal. That means that us, the military will be doing 12 hrs shift, straight nights, week-ends all winter.
They're not cutting positions but they're cutting paychecks. 
The PMQs in Shearwater will be contrcted to HRM.
So here's the big picture....the civies are going to be doing 40 hours a week straight days when they've been paid overtime during winter time for years and a lot of them need that extra money...while the military personnel will be working 60-70hrs a week straight nights, wich means no social life and family life to a minimum from Nov to Apr for us....

 

[armyvern]

No.
It is a TB policy that the government does not under-cut local businesses, and to this end anywhere that is a pay-to-park location (NCR, Toronto, etc) is supposed to (by policy) charge a market rate to park on DND property.

I'm going to agree with the earlier poster. The parking lots of which we are speaking are Crown Land. Crown employees park there. If DND/CF were allowing civilian populaces to utilize these Crown Parking Areas, either for 'free' or at abated prices, from the civilian owned private lot next to it --- then the "fair competetion" would be breached. problem with the argument - is that we're not and ergo we are not "competeing unfairly" for any single "one" of their potential parkers.

Much like the Golf Courses at certain bases accept "Memberships" from civilians who are in no way related to/work for DND/CF ... they must charge those "civilian" members "costs for membership that compete fairly with civilian/privately owned golf courses in the area". We can't just say "Hey join our base Golf Club - we'll only charge you 50% of what you'd pay at civvy course 1 km up the road". THAT is unfair competetion for SAME customer.

That's not the case with parking ... unless of course this also means that the parking lots we own are also now going to be free game for "anyone" to park in (ie: there'll be competetion for them).

 

[TimBit]

Hmmm, interesting. Are you inferring that there will be cuts to the Public Servants and military trades who currently utilize Crown Eqpt to plow out those parking lots?

If the work will be going to private contractors (Care, maint, etc) ... that "loss of work" would indicate 'cuts' to personnel as well. Who needs the PYs when "this part of your job" has disappeared.

Do you have some kind of insider information that PSAC is not yet aware of?? Or are you just speaking outside ...

Vern, as it stands, it does appear that my organization will be privatizing the lots ar we had a stand-alone campus that was tended by PWGSC, but will no longer. I`m not aware of the PY effect, but we are getting privatized.

As for other points, how is it fair to members, like those in the NCR who just do not have any "free" parking spaces if someone making the same salary in another city gets free parking.

 

[armyvern]

Lots of DND property is maintained by contractors now. Meaford has its services provided by CBO.  A number of armouries that are distant from bases are plowed out by local contractors. Contracting out has big attractions for the Govt: no pensions or benefits involved.

Cheers

Some is, but most is not - and we are speaking of a "cross Canada" initiative here no? I could be wrong, but I thought it was to be implemented "across Canada." Any loss of such a huge amount of "PYs" would therefore involve huge reductions in the staff required to work those "PYs" ... and I'm sure we'd here a whole lot from the Public service about it.

 

[TimBit]

FACT: for CFB Halifax next winter there will be NO overtime or shift diff paid to civilian employees for snow removal. That means that us, the military will be doing 12 hrs shift, straight nights, week-ends all winter.
They're not cutting positions but they're cutting paychecks. 
The PMQs in Shearwater will be contrcted to HRM.
So here's the big picture....the civies are going to be doing 40 hours a week straight days when they've been paid overtime during winter time for years and a lot of them need that extra money...while the military personnel will be working 60-70hrs a week straight nights, wich means no social life and family life to a minimum from Nov to Apr for us....

Others will correct me here if I'm wrong, but I do not believe it is possible for CO's to organize 60-70 hours work rotation on a long period unless there are valid operational circumstances or recognized pers shortage, I,m too lazy to find the appropriate DAOD but I know that working hours are supposed to approximate 40 hours a week on average plus unforeseen personnel or ops-related circumstances. In any case, people who used to do 24-7 watches at NDCC at 101 had to deal with the no-bus-no-parking situation too... but then of course it no longer is at 101

 

[armyvern]

Vern, as it stands, it does appear that my organization will be privatizing the lots ar we had a stand-alone campus that was tended by PWGSC, but will no longer. I`m not aware of the PY effect, but we are getting privatized.

As for other points, how is it fair to members, like those in the NCR who just do not have any "free" parking spaces if someone making the same salary in another city gets free parking.

If the lot is privatized, that's completely another thing. How they plan on doing that with, let's say, the J7 Parade square in Gagetown is a whole 'nother matter. Or here. Or Petawawa. Will the private contractor then charge us to use our Parade Square (big parking lot most of the time) for Parades!!??

As for your last paragraph, you'll find that many of us here wonder how the NCR lost it's "PLD" while other places did not. Now, I'd rather pay the $85.00 bucks per month it's costing Moe to park there in the NCR, for example, and only have to pay the same tax rate as someone my rank/trade too ... rather than the extra 350 bucks a month I'm losing while posted to another city (say, anywhere in NB or Nova Scotia) from the guy in the NCR. See how that works?

 

[TimBit]

That's true. In fact am I wrong or tax rates are accounted for in PLD calculation? Note though, that most parking around NDHQ go for 250$ a month at least (!!!). So compare that to free parking in Pet or North Bay or Kingston...not exactly fair.

 

[TruckerJeff]

Others will correct me here if I'm wrong, but I do not believe it is possible for CO's to organize 60-70 hours work rotation on a long period unless there are valid operational circumstances or recognized pers shortage, I,m too lazy to find the appropriate DAOD but I know that working hours are supposed to approximate 40 hours a week on average plus unforeseen personnel or ops-related circumstances. In any case, people who used to do 24-7 watches at NDCC at 101 had to deal with the no-bus-no-parking situation too... but then of course it no longer is at 101

Here's how they're doing it....active airfield=operationnal.  Also I should have said "Up to 70 hrs..." that's 8hrs 5 days a week, stand-by for an xtra 4 hrs and stand-by on week-ends. If it's not a big winter for snow it only sucks cuz your stand-by all the time.  That means no booze, no visiting the family 6 hrs away etc....If it snows a lot it's a whole different story!!!
I can live with it....my wife? Let's just say that she's not too too happy about it!!

 

[aesop081]

Here's how they're doing it....active airfield=operationnal.  Also I should have said "Up to 70 hrs..." that's 8hrs 5 days a week, stand-by for an xtra 4 hrs and stand-by on week-ends.

So ?

Some aircrews run standby postures for 24 hours and weekends too. I work a full day and i go home...hold standby til the next morning. I hope you dont feeel too special !

If it's not a big winter for snow it only sucks cuz your stand-by all the time.  That means no booze, no visiting the family 6 hrs away etc....

When i'm on 2 hour standby...i cant even leave my house.........

 

[Tank Troll]

So ?

Some aircrews run standby postures for 24 hours and weekends too. I work a full day and i go home...hold standby til the next morning. I hope you dont feeel too special !


When i'm on 2 hour standby...i cant even leave my house.........

That is why YOU as a fly guy get the big bucks and signing bonuses

 

[aesop081]

and signing bonuses

No NCM aircrew has ever received such a thing.

 

[TruckerJeff]

You do that 7 days a week 6 months straight?
Anyway I'm not complaining about my situation, I knew what I was getting into when I took this trade.  I was only explaining how I could work that much while it still beeing "cosher"...The point I was trying to make while answering Verna's quetion about laying off personnel was that the civilian workers that work with us are loosing a part of their income.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here.......

And like Troll said, at least your getting spec pay...

 

[aesop081]

You do that 7 days a week 6 months straight?

Obviously my schedule will differ from yours due to the different nature of what we do. The point was that your hardships are hardly unique and that we all have problems that make our home/social lives a real pain in the ass. I hold alot of standbys but less than you. I am however away from home quite frequently and quite a bit more than you. Like i said, we all have our hardships.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here.......

neither am i, see above.

And like Troll said, at least your getting spec pay...

And your PLD makes up for alot of things you have to pay more than me for.

 

[noneck]

At RCMP HQ in Ottawa members pay for parking. It will be the same for the new HQ in BC once it is finished.

I wouldn't be surprised if TB had mandated it across the Fed Govm't.

 

[dapaterson]

It is a government mandate that has been quietly ignored for years.

In remote areas or locations where the parking in the surrounding area is free there will be no change and no charge.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am still not, and won't be, sold on the idea of taxpayers paying to park in parking lots their tax dollars paid for.

Question:

So..what is the plan for say, the civies who have gym memberships in Shearwater lets say?  Prorated fees of some kind??

They will be using the parking lot which is on the base.  Use of parking lots on base=fees.

 

[armyvern]

So..what is the plan for say, the civies who have gym memberships in Shearwater lets say?  Prorated fees of some kind??

They will be using the parking lot which is on the base.  Use of parking lots on base=fees.

I was thinking along that lines too; someone said something earlier about it being noted as "a taxable allowance & benefit" on our pay ... wondering then, what is their plan with that? Automatic for everyone? What about those pers who don't own POMVs (they DO exist!!), those who utilize public transport instead of POMV to get to/from work - or carpool -, those who are married service couples who travel back/forth in ONE vehicle etc?? They still going to treat "both" their pays to this "taxable allowance and benefit" at the full rate for each member despite the fact that only one vehicle between them is utilizing a space??

 

[mariomike]

What about those pers who don't own POMVs (they DO exist!!), those who utilize public transport instead of POMV to get to/from work - or carpool -, those who are married service couples who travel back/forth in ONE vehicle etc??

Sort of like charging you for a dog licence, even though you don't own one.

P.S.
There is an interactive questionnaire which can help both employers and employees better understand when parking as a taxable benefit must be reported:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/pyrll/bnfts/tmbl/prkng/menu-eng.html

Canada Revenue Agency CRA "Definitions for Parking":
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/pyrll/bnfts/tmbl/prkng/dfntns-eng.html#fmv

This is the April 2010 Tax Court of Canada decision which clarifies when free parking is a taxable employee benefit:
http://decision.tcc-cci.gc.ca/en/2010/2010tcc193/2010tcc193.html

 

[aesop081]

Sort of like charging you for a dog licence, even though you don't own one.

.......or EI and knowing you will never be able to use it......

.....school taxes when you have no kids.....

 

[cn]

.......or EI and knowing you will never be able to use it......

.....school taxes when you have no kids.....

Agreed, but isn't the purpose of both EI and school taxes supposedly for the benefit all members of society?  School taxes especially.  Charging for parking and those such taxes seem like apples and oranges.