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Op IMPACT: CAF in the Iraq & Syria crisis

Dimsum said:
Isn't the Acoustic Sensor Operator motto "sleep 'til you're hungry, eat 'til you're tired"?    :D

If any AES Op ASO is sleeping over Iraq they are in need of a serious ass kicking.  Not to mention there is no reason whatsoever that an ASO should find themselves bored as they should be gainfully employed on the EO/IR. 
 
Quirky said:
Makes peferct sense now. I saw an Aurora crew in ASAB get off their aircraft. Pretty sure the oleos leveled off.  :whiteflag:

Jealousy will get your nowhere! 

Combat chips, war cookies and OFF-STA pizza will work.  HappyLand gitch-peeler.  :blotto:
 
Dolphin_Hunter said:
If any AES Op ASO is sleeping over Iraq they are in need of a serious ass kicking.  Not to mention there is no reason whatsoever that an ASO should find themselves bored as they should be gainfully employed on the EO/IR.

Yup;  there is lots of work for wet and dry guys for sure.  AFAIK right now the single sortie 'most bag of chips eaten' record is about 13.  That was...an ASO.  ;D

 
Eye In The Sky said:
Jealousy will get your nowhere! 

Combat chips, war cookies and OFF-STA pizza will work.  HappyLand gitch-peeler.  :blotto:

I was going to ask about that, but I have a feeling it's best I didn't know.
 
A few weeks of groundhog day at the HappyLand all-inclusive resort...you never know what you might do!

Rumour has it that morale thundered in for a short while;  the softie ice cream machine was U/S.  UNSAT.  ^-^
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Yup;  there is lots of work for wet and dry guys for sure.  AFAIK right now the single sortie 'most bag of chips eaten' record is about 13.  That was...an ASO.  ;D
It's all about setting new standards to meet in healthy competition, right?  [:D

On the media front, one analyst's take from the latest Indian-media "rock star" piece on the new DefMin:
.... Montreal-based George Petrolekas, fellow at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, said, “The part where he will primarily play a role is in discussion on the military-to-military basis with his colleagues, with other defence ministers, to ensure that the transition does not leave any gaps in operations.

“Certainly the government has articulated fairly clearly that it’ll do so in a responsible fashion.” (Petrolekas's) “gut feel” is that Canada will keep its military refuelling and two surveillance aircraft active in that theatre ....
 
Eye In The Sky said:
A few weeks of groundhog day at the HappyLand all-inclusive resort...you never know what you might do!

Rumour has it that morale thundered in for a short while;  the softie ice cream machine was U/S.  UNSAT.  ^-^

I can confirm this rumint.  I know of a certain individual who was waiting patiently in line at the machine when his fellow USAF buddies emptied the machine.  It was a sad day because they did not have any chemical ice cream refills around.

 
Here is an interesting statement by the MND that suggests the CF18s may be coming home later rather than earlier. It is reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

No timetable on pulling jets, says Defence Minister
By Evan Solomon and Yael Berger — Everything is Political – Sirius XM — Dec 11 2015

Canada will not pull its CF-18 fighter jets from the combat mission in Iraq and Syria if it degrades the overall capability of the coalition forces, Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan told SiriusXM in an interview on “Everything in Political with Evan Solomon.”

“The decision for that will be based on my conversations with my counterparts, making sure that the coalition’s capability is not reduced,” the defence minister said. He said he is working on various options and will announce a decision soon.

This stands in contrast to what the Foreign Affairs Minister Stéphane Dion said on Monday, when he announced that the combat mission would end imminently.

“It will be a matter of weeks not months,” Dion told reporters. Dion also said pulling out Canada’s jets would be done in conjunction with Canada’s allies and rolled out alongside a new plan, but he never hinted that the defining issue would be “capability.”

Sajjan also said he is considering leaving Canada’s air refueling and reconnaissance aircraft as part of the mission.

The Conservative defence critic James Bezan responded to Sajjan, demanding to see the details of the Liberal plan for the military mission. He believes there have been contradictory messages sent about the nature of the mission and whether the Liberal government will eventually put more boots on the ground.

“I’m looking forward to seeing exactly what the plan is because that wasn’t apparent,” says Bezan. “The defence minister is using language that’s quite different from what we’re hearing from the Prime Minister,” he said.

Bezan said the Prime Minister has said in the House that Canada needs to fight ISIS in its own territory. “Does that mean boots on the ground?” he asked.

The defence minister joined Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at Pearson airport on Thursday night to greet the incoming Syrian refugees, but Sajjan says the government is trying to avoid using military bases to house more refugees.

“We are trying to, hopefully, not even be able to use military bases, but if it’s needed, we are available for that purpose,” the minister said.

Today the threat level from ISIS was raised in Geneva after suspects related to the Paris attacks are being tracked by police, but the defence minister maintains his previous statement that Canada has nothing to fear from ISIS.

“Canada should not fear ISIS, and I am firm believer in that,” he said. “Canadians should feel safe but that does not mean that we are going to eliminate all threats, but we have security forces that 24/7 are looking out for these types of threats,” he said.

Sajjan also said his most important job is protecting the mental health of the men and women in the Canadian military.

The comments came in a wide ranging interview ton “Everything is Political” that covered new money in the budget for the military, sexual misconduct in the forces, and Canada’s support for the Afghan police force.

- mod edit to add link -
 
Eye In The Sky said:
2 words.  Mongolian BBQ.  :nod:
Uh, that's not a euphemism for anything, is it?  >:D

Old Sweat said:
.... “The decision for that will be based on my conversations with my counterparts, making sure that the coalition’s capability is not reduced,” the defence minister said. He said he is working on various options and will announce a decision soon.

This stands in contrast to what the Foreign Affairs Minister Stéphane Dion said on Monday, when he announced that the combat mission would end imminently.

“It will be a matter of weeks not months,” Dion told reporters. Dion also said pulling out Canada’s jets would be done in conjunction with Canada’s allies and rolled out alongside a new plan, but he never hinted that the defining issue would be “capability.”
....
And when speaking to the House of Commons on Thursday, Dion said this:
.... The military campaign against ISIL is critical and Canada’s contribution has been and will remain significant. The issue is how we can make it optimal .... Canada’s contributions moving forward will be part of a long-term comprehensive strategy to address this key global concern. I understand that the opposition would like to see the full plan right away. It is its job to ask us to do so. It [the plan] will come. It is important to do it. We cannot do it alone in a corner of the table. We need to do it in full cooperation and consultation with our allies, which is what we are doing ....
 
RCAF and CANSOF deliver a counter against an ISIS offensive.  Looks like this one should have more info coming soon from a media brief now.

Canadian Forces involved in 'supporting fire' against ISIS in Iraq
CTV News
17 Dec 2015

Canadian Special Operations Forces were involved in 'supporting fire' on the ground in Iraq, CTV News has learned.

Sources told CTV’s Mercedes Stephenson that there were no Canadian casualties after the Canadian Forces helped return fire on the ground and with CF-18s following a major attack by ISIS on Kurdish forces.

The military issued a statement saying two CF-18s struck ISIS northeast of Fallujah.

The Department of National Defence said it will provide a technical briefing in Ottawa at 7:30 p.m.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/canadian-forces-involved-in-supporting-fire-against-isis-in-iraq-1.2464486
 
BZ to our folks.  :cdn: 

I hope everyone remembers, before they start second guessing anything going on in the Badlands from their armchairs (or office chairs), that Canadian Forces always have the rules of engagement for self-defence.   

And, while we are on the discussion of anything JTF-I, I'll just leave this article here...


Why Trudeau is lost on the Middle East

The many ways the Prime Minister’s position on the fight against ISIS is still shot through with contradictions

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has had almost two months since his election win to craft a sensible response to the question of why he’s withdrawing Canada’s CF-18s (and possibly other aircraft) from the combat mission against the so-called Islamic State. He hasn’t come up with one yet, and didn’t again Wednesday when asked by a member of the public at the Maclean’s Town Hall in Ottawa.

You almost want to sympathize with the guy, because his position—by its own logic—is shot through with contradictions.

Islamic State, he says, must be confronted, including militarily, and Canada must play a role in the fight against it. “The question that we have to ask ourselves, as a government and as a country,” he said during the Maclean’s Town Hall, “is how best can we help.”

Trudeau suggested that training local forces to take the fight to Islamic State is the answer. This is a skill, he said, that Canadian troops honed during 10 years in Afghanistan.

Fair enough, although training is hardly the only thing Canadians did over there. But there’s a strange implication here that Canada can’t do both: bomb Islamic State and train local forces. This, of course, is what Canada has been doing for more than a year. Trudeau added: “We know that Western armies engaged in combat is not necessarily the way to solve the challenges in the Middle East.”

This is a popular trope, but in this case it’s irrelevant. No one is suggesting Canada send an infantry battalion to the frontlines in Syria. The question Trudeau was asked is why he’s pulling out the fighter jets.

Maybe Trudeau also thinks airstrikes are ineffective. Evidence on the ground suggests otherwise. Islamic State has been stopped and in places pushed back as a result of coalition warplanes, including Canadian ones, coordinating their airstrikes with local forces on the ground.

But if this is what Trudeau thinks, let him say so clearly. Let him make the case that the air campaign isn’t working. It certainly has not been sufficient, but to argue that it’s not doing much good would require Trudeau to marshal evidence and rhetorical skills he has not yet deployed.

For that matter, if engaging in combat is not a productive way for Western nations to “solve the challenges in the Middle East,” as Trudeau says, why is he continuing with a “training” mission that involves Canadian soldiers calling in airstrikes and, on more than one occasion, shooting at Islamic State fighters on the frontlines?

It also appears that Trudeau will keep Canada’s refuelling and surveillance aircraft in the coalition.

This is noteworthy. During the election campaign, I asked Trudeau’s spokesman, Dan Lauzon, whether, if elected, Trudeau would withdraw those planes as well as the CF-18s.

“A Liberal government would transition away from all aspects of the combat air mission to re-focus our military role on training,” he responded by email.

This seemed to me to be leaving some wiggle room, so I wrote back:

“Thanks, Dan. I’m sorry for being redundant, but I want to be crystal clear. Would the surveillance and refuelling planes be withdrawn? I just want to be sure that your statement isn’t intended to be leaving grey areas in which those planes would continue to operate.”

Lauzon’s complete response: “Hi Michael — All aspects of the combat mission.”

Now, it’s possible Lauzon was being deceptive—not telling a bald-faced lie, a particularly brazen lawyer might argue, but engaging in deception all the same. If that’s the case, Trudeau should probably not make further claims about running an open and transparent government.

But let’s give Trudeau the benefit of the doubt and assume he did in fact intend to pull out the surveillance and refuelling planes, but will now keep them flying because he recognizes they’re doing good work.

The good work they’re doing is combat. Those planes aren’t dropping bombs. But how is finding targets and relaying that information to allied planes who then drop bombs on them any less combat-related than if Canadian pilots were to continue dropping the bombs themselves?

This is where the contradictions in Trudeau’s policy on fighting Islamic State really get messy—because despite panning a combat role for Western militaries in the Middle East, and despite plans to withdraw Canadian warplanes from the fight against Islamic State, he’s also admitted the coalition’s bombing mission is effective. Asked by the BBC last month to clarify that he’s not against bombing Islamic State, Trudeau replied: “Indeed.”

So now we’re left with a hodgepodge of statements and positions from Trudeau that don’t add up to a coherent policy:

–      Canada’s armed forces do an extraordinary job of whatever they’re asked to do.

–      There are things we can do better than drop bombs.

–      Bombing isn’t an effective way for Western nations to solve problems in the Middle East.

–      I’m not against bombing Islamic State.

–      We will transition from combat to training (even though Canada is clearly capable of doing both).

One final thing: In the Maclean’s Town Hall, Trudeau pointed out that U.S. President Barack Obama hasn’t asked him to keep the CF-18s flying.

Obama hasn’t asked, because he doesn’t want to embarrass Trudeau. The reciprocal courtesy is for Trudeau not to imply the absence of that request means Obama doesn’t want Canada to keep its CF-18s in the air over Iraq and Syria. He does—as do the leaders of Britain, France and other allied countries. If Trudeau isn’t careful, one of them might say so publicly.
 
Latest from the Info-machine, attributed to Major-General Charles Lamarre, Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff:
“On the 16th of December at around 1600hrs (local), ISIL forces in Iraq initiated a coordinated attack against the Kurdish Security Forces’ (KSF) front line in Northern Iraq.

    “Before proceeding, allow me to orient you to the map behind me.  In the centre of the map is the city of Mosul.  The green line indicates the separation between ISIL and the KSF.  The red arrows roughly indicate the main avenues of approach used by ISIL.

    “The attackers employed indirect artillery fire, suicide vehicle borne improvised explosive devices and ground troops in an attempt to break through the KSF defensive line. There were no Canadian Armed Forces casualties as a result of this operation, but unfortunately our courageous KSF allies sustained a number of losses, and we would like to extend our condolences to the Kurdish people.

    “That said, both the KSF and our deployed Canadian Armed Forces personnel performed extremely well and the ISIL attack was defeated.

    “The attack resulted in multiple incursions into the KSF defensive positions.  Two of those incursions happened in areas where the KSF is currently being advised by Canadian Armed Forces personnel.

    “The KSF was initially pushed back, but before nightfall were able to consolidate and contain the attackers.  On 17 December, the KSF, with the assistance of the coalition forces, conducted a counter-attack.  At approximately 1100hrs, the attackers were defeated and the front line was re-established.

    “During the attack, the Canadian Armed Forces deployed in Iraq in the Train Advise and Assist role were integral to the efforts in coordinating and deconflicting Coalition support offered to the KSF.  The KSF counter attacks were successful in every sector.

    “During counter-attacks, the members of the Canadian Armed Forces involved in this operation provided key support to the KSF.  The presence of Canadian soldiers in support of the KSF has allowed to coordinate movements, fire support and to develop an accurate common operational picture for the forces involved in combat.

    “During the counter attacks, the Canadian Armed Forces personnel involved in support to the KSF had to employ supporting fire to defend friendly forces in the face of hostile enemy action.  CAF personnel were not principal combatants.  Our train, advise and assist role sometime involves engagements.

    “During the counter attacks, the Canadian soldiers established a casualty collection point where they treated and triaged the injured combatants.

    “During the operation, as part of a coalition strike package, our CF-18s conducted a strike in support of the KSF, and their contribution assisted in the re-establishment of the front line of defence.

    “Our Canadian Armed Forces personnel, working within their “Train, Advise and Assist” mission and alongside their Kurdish Security Forces allies, performed very well in demanding conditions, thereby highlighting the success of our efforts in helping the KSF counter the threats posed by the extremist militant group ISIL.”
 
It was telling the other day, to hear Obama mention and thank those countries that are making major contributions and not hear Canada in the list.
 
jollyjacktar said:
It was telling the other day, to hear Obama mention and thank those countries that are making major contributions and not hear Canada in the list.

Yeah, well...meh. ::)

Apparently keeping eyes on the bad guys and passing the info real-time to the coalition, and handing out gas to the strike force and getting right in there with SOF helping mentor the Khurds, closer than any American-declared SOF, isn't 'major'?  CF-18s or not, Canada is contributing meaningfully.  Obama's speech writers and policy back-room boys went overboard on the "punishment for not giving us everything we told you to give..." 

:2c:

Regards
G2G
 
jollyjacktar said:
It was telling the other day, to hear Obama mention and thank those countries that are making major contributions and not hear Canada in the list.
1)  We're still listed in the Pentagon info-machine's dispatches as being part of the team - latest one here:
... Coalition nations which have conducted strikes in Iraq include Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Jordan, Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Coalition nations which have conducted strikes in Syria include Australia, Bahrain, Canada, France, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
2)  I'm sure it was just an oversight, like when George W. Bush thanked countries immediately after 9-11 without mentioning Canada*.
3)  I kinda like this theory, too  ;D ...
Good2Golf said:
... Obama's speech writers and policy back-room boys went overboard on the "punishment for not giving us everything we told you to give..."

* - Although we did get our own "thank you" a few years later.  ;D
 
On Friday, the MND states that the plan to withdraw jets "remains the same" (though it may be unclear to many of us what the details of that plan are).
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/plan-to-withdraw-jets-remains-the-same-sajjan-1.2705622

But, following a visit Sunday to northern Iraq where he met local government officials, he states that Canada will have a "more active role on the ground."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sajjan-iraq-visit-1.3373892

I wonder if this will be OMLTs like Kandahar or schools and training centers like Kabul.
 
MCG said:
On Friday, the MND states that the plan to withdraw jets "remains the same" (though it may be unclear to many of us what the details of that plan are).
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/plan-to-withdraw-jets-remains-the-same-sajjan-1.2705622

But, following a visit Sunday to northern Iraq where he met local government officials, he states that Canada will have a "more active role on the ground."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sajjan-iraq-visit-1.3373892

I wonder if this will be OMLTs like Kandahar or schools and training centers like Kabul.
Something else to add to the "what's the new mission going to look like?" stew:
Canada’s minister of foreign affairs says he is “proud” of the work Canadian soldiers did last week during a firefight against the so-called Islamic State, but that the men and women on the ground in the region are not there to engage in combat.

In an interview with the West Block’s Tom Clark this weekend, Stéphane Dion acknowledged that his party opposed combat troops on the ground in Northern Iraq when the Conservatives were in power, and that has not changed.

( ... )

“I feel proud. I think our men and women in uniform are very courageous, very professional, doing a great job,” Dion said. “(The mission) is to, for now, have the airstrikes and to help the national troops to be prepared to fight.”

The Liberal government’s revamped plan for Canada’s role in the fight against IS is coming soon, the minister re-iterated. Dion clarified that the plan for the end to the bombing mission will likely be announced in the coming weeks, but that the bombing itself may continue beyond that, as the plan will take time to implement ...
If the statements of both Ministers are taken together, sounds like any training mission would be more like the Kabul School type.  Then again, it's not decided until "The Boss" says it's decided - out loud.
 
The only reason our Kabul school system was there was because of the massive rings of security all over the place provided by other countries. Unless it's a NATO effort, I wouldn't expect to see that sort of mission, we're too risk adverse and Iraq is too dangerous. Likely they're going to leave the training to the professionals already there, and just give them more bodies.
 
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