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Occupational and Component Transfers (OT/CT/VOT) During and After BMQ (Merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter cameron_highlander
  • Start date Start date
I'm in a similar though not identical situation to your husband, and have been forced to learn a fair amount about this, so I may be of some help here.

First, until your husband is trade qualified, the process is called a Voluntary Occupational Reassignment. An Occupational Transfer only applies once you actually have an occupation, and the difference is anything but semantic :(

I myself am changing from Infantry to Comms Research...I tried kicking off the process during BMQ. My chain of command told me at the time that they would not under any circumstances action my memorandum until I reached my next unit - In my case wainwright PAT. I sent it up anyway and it was indeed fired back, I cannot however confirm that this was due to some regulation or whether my CoC just didn't want to deal with it. Don't take my experience as the only way it can go. However, it is quite possible your husband will have to finish BMQ before he can kick this off.

That said, once I got to PAT in Wainwright, I was able to submit a VOR. How it works is you put in a memo requesting a meeting with your Base Personnel Selection Officer, which can take 2 days or a month to get, depending on any number of factors. S/he will interview your husband - when I had mine, she asked me what trades I wanted (they'll ask you for 3 choices), told me the status of the trade (whether there are spots available or not), told me my CFAT scores were good enough, etc...in my case I went in fairly well informed, so it was a fairly short interview.

Next step is submitting a VOR memo, which is quite straight forward. It has to be approved by his chain of command, which in the case of Wainwright PAT started with the PAT 2 i/c (a Warrant Officer), then to the platoon commander (2LT), coy 2 i/c (capt), coy OC (Maj) and then the WATC CO (Lt Col)...in my case, they lost the damn thing before it got to the CO. I've been lead to believe that they sometimes go missing if you've pissed someone off, but in my case I suspect no foul play - they deal with a lot of the damn things. They also didn't have me fill out the forms that go with the memo, or in fact tell me such things existed - I didn't find out about them until I got tasked to CFB Edmonton and I asked my supervisor to help me find out the status of my VOR. Make sure your husband asks about them, lest they be forgotten and the process be delayed as it was for me.

In theory, once the memo reaches the CO level, there is a second BPSO interview, and then the paperwork is sent to NDHQ. I can't speak to how that works or how long it takes, only that it will probably be awhile. I put mine in three months ago and I haven't even been moved to PARR yet.

Don't let my experience discourage you or your husband, but be advised that it could take awhile.
 
Your husband should get his hands on something called:

CFAO 11-12

It deals with occupation changes for Non-commissioned members, Regular Force.  He should be able to get that thru his bosses, or on the DIN himself. Its not available on the Internet at this time.

As he is not QL3 qualified yet, he is looking for something called a MOC Reassignment.  I am not at work and can't PM you the details of the CFAO/MOC Reassignments but I can assure you this is the governing document on occupational transfers for Regular Force NCMs and he should read/understand it as he applies for his MOC Reassignment.

If he can't get his hands on a copy, PM me and I'll get something to you.
 
Thanks so much for the information.  I'll let my husband know and hopefully this will make sense to him!  :)
 
Sigswife said:
Thanks so much for the information.  I'll let my husband know and hopefully this will make sense to him!  :)

All information he would have received from his superiors if had asked them for it.
 
CDN Aviator said:
All information he would have received from his superiors if had asked them for it.

And I'm sure he's going to.  I was just trying to see what information I could find out for him.
 
DavieRocket77 said:

DavieRocket77,

A few days ago, a very wise man (Kratz, a mentor on this forum) wrote this to me:
A "ha ha ha" on course when a teammate gets in trouble will land you more trouble."

He was so right.

Just after reading his answer to my "ha ha ha" post I felt very ashamed and gave it some deep thoughts as:
1) As humans, we should not laugh at those who come for advice, help or make mistakes
2) As "Wannabes" the first value we should learn and respect is: the team effort and be team oriented

When reading your "LOL" answer today, I recalled that you're the one who came crying for help and advices 2 days ago on this very forum. A few of us answered you to the best of our knowledge. The day after that (that would be yesterday) you got an official starting date for your MBQ. The same day, you laugh onto someone else's thread who's just trying to get some advice for her husband (TEAM WORK).
So what is it? The overflowing joy of having an MBQ date that allows you to laugh at someone else? Or is it just that the word TEAM hasn't sunk into you yet?

And yes TEAM WORK is extremely important... keep this in mind as you'll need it more than you ever did in your entire life during MBQ as for the rest of your career in the CF.

If I could give you -100 on this one, I would.

Alea
 
Alea said:
DavieRocket77,

A few days ago, a very wise man (Kratz, a mentor on this forum) wrote this to me:
A "ha ha ha" on course when a teammate gets in trouble will land you more trouble."

He was so right.

Just after reading his answer to my "ha ha ha" post I felt very ashamed and gave it some deep thoughts as:
1) As humans, we should not laugh at those who come for advice, help or make mistakes
2) As "Wannabes" the first value we should learn and respect is: the team effort and be team oriented

When reading your "LOL" answer today, I recalled that you're the one who came crying for help and advices 2 days ago on this very forum. A few of us answered you to the best of our knowledge. The day after that (that would be yesterday) you got an official starting date for your MBQ. The same day, you laugh onto someone else's thread who's just trying to get some advice for her husband (TEAM WORK).
So what is it? The overflowing joy of having an MBQ date that allows you to laugh at someone else? Or is it just that the word TEAM hasn't sunk into you yet?

And yes TEAM WORK is extremely important... keep this in mind as you'll need it more than you ever did in your entire life during MBQ as for the rest of your career in the CF.

If I could give you -100 on this one, I would.

Alea
Dear Alea, I think you misunderstood my "lol"....I wasn't laughing at "Sigswife" for asking a question. I was laughing at Wallaces comment which I didn't think was very helpful at all, that's why I posted a "lol"- it was a sarcastic, I didn't realize I needed your permission to make a post. Now please tell me Alea how  the heck does my "BMQ" date have any rellevance with my post? It seems quite obvious that all you want to do is critisize and bash people first chance you get, that or you simply have it out for me......either way congratulations. Just for your information, I have lived my life as a "team player" and I wouldn't have it any other way, so this won't be a problem for me. Just one piece of advice , I think you should have a good look in the mirror before you jump to conclusions and judge someone else.......... take care      p.s. I don't think I need to tell you what you can do with your "100"
 
DavieRocket77 said:
Dear Alea, I think you misunderstood my "lol"....I wasn't laughing at "Sigswife" for asking a question. I was laughing at Wallaces comment which I didn't think was very helpful at all, that's why I posted a "lol"- it was a sarcastic, I didn't realize I needed your permission to make a post. Now please tell me Alea how  the heck does my "BMQ" date have any rellevance with my post? It seems quite obvious that all you want to do is critisize and bash people first chance you get, that or you simply have it out for me......either way congratulations. Just for your information, I have lived my life as a "team player" and I wouldn't have it any other way, so this won't be a problem for me. Just one piece of advice , I think you should have a good look in the mirror before you jump to conclusions and judge someone else.......... take care      p.s. I don't think I need to tell you what you can do with your "100"

DavieRocket77,

My apologies.
You are right, I did not realize that your answer was not towards Sigswife. I originally thought of it to be sarcastic against someone asking for help.
I don't know you what so ever, therefore, I don't "have it out for you" at all, nor do I "want to criticize and bash people first chance I get". No worries about this.

And you're right in your P.S. also. You don't need to tell me what I can do with the 100 as I've decided to give you a +100... my way of saying that: I made a mistake towards you.

Alea

 
One of our Australian exchange officers and I had a talk about this the other day, and he brought up a good point.

Why in the heck do we make people choose what trade they want to be before they've ever been exposed to any of it?  They haven't seen a single day of life in the Army, Navy, or Air Force, yet we make them pick at the recruiting centre.

Why don't they all go to basic as a purple uni-trade blob and then get some sort of presentation at the end and then branch their three ways?

Then, say you decide you want to go Army (why wouldn't you?), you go onto your next phase and then do that course as a green blob, and at the end you get to see a more specific round of trade-specific presentations.

No, everyone wouldn't get exactly what they want based on numbers, but they don't now either.  At least they'd get some exposure to their desired job before they picked it which is a heck of a lot more than watching a 2-minute clip online.

It would also cut down on all the BS "OT" wastage before being trade qualified.
 
Petamocto said:
One of our Australian exchange officers and I had a talk about this the other day, and he brought up a good point.

Why in the heck do we make people choose what trade they want to be before they've ever been exposed to any of it?  They haven't seen a single day of life in the Army, Navy, or Air Force, yet we make them pick at the recruiting centre.

Why don't they all go to basic as a purple uni-trade blob and then get some sort of presentation at the end and then branch their three ways?

Then, say you decide you want to go Army (why wouldn't you?), you go onto your next phase and then do that course as a green blob, and at the end you get to see a more specific round of trade-specific presentations.

No, everyone wouldn't get exactly what they want based on numbers, but they don't now either.  At least they'd get some exposure to their desired job before they picked it which is a heck of a lot more than watching a 2-minute clip online.

It would also cut down on all the BS "OT" wastage before being trade qualified.

I'd hate to say it, but I agree with Petamocto  ;D

As someone currently in the training system (the last 15 months), I would have vastly preferred actually being given a chance to experience some of my Element (Navy) before picking a trade. I see all two often, QL3 students of all trades that are very disappointed in their choices. I too even share some reservations about mine.

I personally felt that some of the best training I ever received, were hands on taskings during my PAT stints over the last year and a half. I know most of my fellow students feel the same. IMHO this is especially true of us that have long courses and usually even longer stints awaiting security clearances.

The one place Petamocto and myself differ is on "purple uni-trade blob". I would hazard a guess most folks have their mind made up on element before joining.
 
Crockett said:
I'd hate to say it, but I agree with Petamocto...

join_the_dark_side__DarthCookie.jpg


Sorry, when I wrote "purple" it was in a non-affiliation context, not a logistics context if that's what you think I meant.
 
Petamocto said:
Sorry, when I wrote "purple" it was in a non-affiliation context, not a logistics context if that's what you think I meant.

No, I was thinking more along the line of separate "basic training" per element or role.

But that's a whole different kettle of fish, a different thread, and well beyond my pay grade. But then again, the way I understand it, basic thought processes beyond breathing are still above my pay grade :P
 
Crockett said:
I see all two often, QL3 students of all trades that are very disappointed in their choices.

Judging by what i see on this site, i would venture that a fair number of those were part of the "i want whatever trade will get me in the quickest" applicant crowd rather than the "i didnt understand what i signed up for " crowd.

Its a trend almost anyone can see here on army.ca, in my opinion at least. If people spent more time asking the CFRC questions and using online resources to make an informed decision as oposed to worring about how fast they can get to BMQ...........
 
CDN Aviator said:
Judging by what i see on this site, i would venture that a fair number of those were part of the "i want whatever trade will get me in the quickest" applicant crowd rather than the "i didnt understand what i signed up for " crowd.

Its a trend almost anyone can see here on army.ca, in my opinion at least. If people spent more time asking the CFRC questions and using online resources to make an informed decision as oposed to worring about how fast they can get to BMQ...........

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but the majority of what I have seen here in Esquimalt (Navy realm only) is a combination a unfulfilled expectations, and disgruntled trainees stuck in the system awaiting course dates and security clearances.

As far as the unfulfilled expectations goes, yes much of that is due to recruits not researching / questioning properly throughout the process. Asking the CFRC questions isn't always realistic though. I know when I recruited in Halifax, it was with an all army staff who freely admitted that they knew next to nothing about the Navy let alone the Nav Comm trade.

The biggest problem I find here is that students wait far too long for coursing and clearances. Allthough these are obviously areas where there will be some "marking time" most of the bodies aren't truly gainfully employed. Typically the longer those bodies wait the more they start considering OTs to elements / trades where they can get their career back on track. I know the thought did more than just cross my mind in the past.
 
Crockett said:
No, I was thinking more along the line of separate "basic training" per element or role.

Sorry I'm still not sure about what you're saying in terms of what I wrote.

To clarify, the hypothetical situation above includes every single person who joins the CF going to one place for basic training.  All they would do at the recruiting centre is get through the door and pass the entrance tests.  They could still be told that they're only going to be allowed a limited range of choices if they didn't score well, but everyone does the same thing (short of the rarities like dentists, lawyers, etc).

For the big chunk of the bell curve though, I don't think anyone is entitled before finishing basic that they belong to anything other than the CF, and after passing basic they're still not qualified to say they're infantry, armour, etc.
 
Petamocto said:
Sorry I'm still not sure about what you're saying in terms of what I wrote.

To clarify, the hypothetical situation above includes every single person who joins the CF going to one place for basic training.  All they would do at the recruiting centre is get through the door and pass the entrance tests.  They could still be told that they're only going to be allowed a limited range of choices if they didn't score well, but everyone does the same thing (short of the rarities like dentists, lawyers, etc).

For the big chunk of the bell curve though, I don't think anyone is entitled before finishing basic that they belong to anything other than the CF, and after passing basic they're still not qualified to say they're infantry, armour, etc.

I understand what your saying. I was simply saying that I'm more of a believer in a Army Basic, a Navy Basic, and whatever it is the Airforce does  ;D


But again that's a whole other thread / discussion / argument / thing to get my bag hammered on  ;D
 
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