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OK, you guys, just so you ARE aware:
1) I am NOT a cadet.
2) I am a fully commissioned officer in the Canadian Reserves. I may not be operational, but I still am in the army. The cadets are the civilians, not me. I have to answer to the same rules as you, and can get a nice little holiday in Club Ed if I screw up.
3) I did NOT beg, steal or borrow the CADPAT uniform.
4) It was ISSUED to me.
5) Out here, everyone that I have seen, except people on BMQ, have the CADPAT.
For goodness sake, it's not like I asked for it
It was given to me. How am I supposed to influence who gets it first? Geesh. "Uh no thanks, I won't take that regulation piece of kit that you are going to issue me, because there is some guy out in Ontario whose Supply technician or whatever has decided that he is going to use up all of those OD combats before he gives out the CADPAT"
As far as the 'how are they getting it before soldiers?' comment goes, last I checked, the term 'soldier' applied to everyone in the Army, not just those of you who are out in the far ends of the earth getting shot at. Don't get me wrong, I have total respect for all of you in the Reg Force and the Reserves who are getting shot at, etc, and I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, think that I have the same level of training to deal with that. I know what my limitations are, and I never try to pass myself off as anything but what I am.
I am a CIC Officer, and very proud of that! I am good at what I do (or at least I like to think so), but I am by no means an expert. Would YOU like to come and teach these hormonal 12-19 year-olds? Go check out / volunteer at your local Cadets, and when you see what kind of stuff we have to put up with, then come back to me, and tell me that I don't deserve to wear the Uniform of my Country, which I am proud to serve, in whatever capacity I may.
I realize that this has gotten a bit off topic, so if anyone wants to continue this discussion offlist, please send me a private message, I would appreciate it.
1) I am NOT a cadet.
2) I am a fully commissioned officer in the Canadian Reserves. I may not be operational, but I still am in the army. The cadets are the civilians, not me. I have to answer to the same rules as you, and can get a nice little holiday in Club Ed if I screw up.
3) I did NOT beg, steal or borrow the CADPAT uniform.
4) It was ISSUED to me.
5) Out here, everyone that I have seen, except people on BMQ, have the CADPAT.
For goodness sake, it's not like I asked for it
It was given to me. How am I supposed to influence who gets it first? Geesh. "Uh no thanks, I won't take that regulation piece of kit that you are going to issue me, because there is some guy out in Ontario whose Supply technician or whatever has decided that he is going to use up all of those OD combats before he gives out the CADPAT"As far as the 'how are they getting it before soldiers?' comment goes, last I checked, the term 'soldier' applied to everyone in the Army, not just those of you who are out in the far ends of the earth getting shot at. Don't get me wrong, I have total respect for all of you in the Reg Force and the Reserves who are getting shot at, etc, and I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, think that I have the same level of training to deal with that. I know what my limitations are, and I never try to pass myself off as anything but what I am.
I am a CIC Officer, and very proud of that! I am good at what I do (or at least I like to think so), but I am by no means an expert. Would YOU like to come and teach these hormonal 12-19 year-olds? Go check out / volunteer at your local Cadets, and when you see what kind of stuff we have to put up with, then come back to me, and tell me that I don't deserve to wear the Uniform of my Country, which I am proud to serve, in whatever capacity I may.
I realize that this has gotten a bit off topic, so if anyone wants to continue this discussion offlist, please send me a private message, I would appreciate it.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Mr Brown; Just out of curiosity how long is the course to become a fully commissioned officer in the Canadian Reserves/ CIC officer?
I don't think anyone us directly attacking you for getting issued cadpat. Im sure you have as much pull over the issue as a private or corporal does. Personally i'm calling into question the wisdom behind issuing a CIC officer who teaches cadets cadpat over regular force and reserve personal who are operational. I know everyone has to get it sooner or later, i'd just like to see it go to certain people first.
I don't think anyone us directly attacking you for getting issued cadpat. Im sure you have as much pull over the issue as a private or corporal does. Personally i'm calling into question the wisdom behind issuing a CIC officer who teaches cadets cadpat over regular force and reserve personal who are operational. I know everyone has to get it sooner or later, i'd just like to see it go to certain people first.
H
Hawaii Mike
Guest
As far as fire-retardant materials go for combat uniforms, I would hazard a guess that the same properties of the material that keep flame and heat away from flesh also prevent heat from leaving the body. When I've worn nomex flight suits, I've found them to be 100% comfortable so long as I stayed flat on my ass in my rack in an air-conditioned berthing space. I would imagine that aviators and tankers sweat loads while working. An infantryman in the desert would quickly drop from dehydration were he to wear a nomex uniform, I would imagine.
I also might hasten to add that materiel and equipment issue has improved a lot since the 1980's, when I was an active duty Marine. Senior leadership seems to be more on the ball. I would guess that the grunts will get first issue of the new army uniform. Nice pocket setup, by the way. MARPAT sleeve pockets are maybe good for a pack of smokes; that's about it.
This all came down because guys were copying SEALs and SF guys who tucked in their shirttails, having removed the lower pockets and upper pockets. The upper pockets went on the sleeves to hold important first-line gear, and the waist pockets went on a slant on the chest, for the same reason. They wanted to tuck in because when wearing second-line gear, pistols, and/or abseiling kit, etc., the tails did nothing but get in the way. Also, we felt a lot more comfortable with everything nice and tightly tucked in.
My memories may be dated, but I do recall seeing admin and HQ guys with clean shiny kit (ca. 1987-88, goretex was a distant dream for those of us in the rifle companies and artillery batteries; everybody on the MAU/MEU and PHIBRON staff had it, though) in greater proportions than their relative missions and operational need might suggest. I don't think anybody will argue that HQ types always seem to get more citations, better gear and better living conditions. It's all a matter of being closest to the supply train, as well as to the flagpole.
I also might hasten to add that materiel and equipment issue has improved a lot since the 1980's, when I was an active duty Marine. Senior leadership seems to be more on the ball. I would guess that the grunts will get first issue of the new army uniform. Nice pocket setup, by the way. MARPAT sleeve pockets are maybe good for a pack of smokes; that's about it.
This all came down because guys were copying SEALs and SF guys who tucked in their shirttails, having removed the lower pockets and upper pockets. The upper pockets went on the sleeves to hold important first-line gear, and the waist pockets went on a slant on the chest, for the same reason. They wanted to tuck in because when wearing second-line gear, pistols, and/or abseiling kit, etc., the tails did nothing but get in the way. Also, we felt a lot more comfortable with everything nice and tightly tucked in.
My memories may be dated, but I do recall seeing admin and HQ guys with clean shiny kit (ca. 1987-88, goretex was a distant dream for those of us in the rifle companies and artillery batteries; everybody on the MAU/MEU and PHIBRON staff had it, though) in greater proportions than their relative missions and operational need might suggest. I don't think anybody will argue that HQ types always seem to get more citations, better gear and better living conditions. It's all a matter of being closest to the supply train, as well as to the flagpole.
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Hawaii Mike, I agree that Nomex can be your worst enemy in certain situations ie. extreme air temps or oxygen enriched environments. But there are many other FR materials that can be used that do their best to get heat away from the body. The thing is, anytime you add a layer of clothing to your body not only have you insulated it more, causing body temperature to rise, but you give it that many more layers on top to absorb the heat and these layers take longer to let the heat dissipate.
About five or six years ago a Winnipeg Firefighter had to jump from the second story of a house as a fireball was chasing him (the condition he was in is known as flashover and a firefighters life expectancy in one is about three seconds) he had several injuries from the fall (Imagine jumping wearing 25 pounds of fire gear and the 15 pounds of breathing apparatus) When they got him to the hospital they realized that they had far graver issues. He had circumferential burns on his forearms. The degree of severity of these burns was cutting off circulation to the hands and he very nearly lost them. He was in recovery and physio for over 8 months.
The reason he received these circumferential burns was a phenomenon known as "heat sink". His burns were completely circumferential and very uniform, it was as if a line had been drawn on his skin where the burns start and stop. Other firemen quickly figured out that these burns were in the same relative area as his reflective striping would have been when he was wearing his jacket. Whoa. It was later found that this reflective striping has high heat tolerance, so it doesn't melt off of your clothing. Being that it is very resistant it also means that it traps heat, everything does, the higher heat resistance an article of clothing has the longer it will take for heat to dissipate from that article of clothing. In this poor man's case, the striping had a heat resistance of just a bit higher than the rest of the clothing and therefore he was burned only in those places.
We (firefighters) have long known that this can happen but never attributed it to the striping, just the heat in the atmosphere being almost too much for the gear. When you go into the flashover simulator (They create flashover but you and your buddies are at a level about 3 feet lower than the flashover, that equals a safe spot) they say very clearly that you are not to slap a buddy on the back or grab him by the arm as you will compress the clothing over that area and burn your mate.
Now, in the oilfield we have the potential to be exposed to heat sink alot and when it occurs it is very rapid. When fighting a rig fire or "blowout" we often wear coveralls, that's it. We wear the PBI Black Gold Flightsuits with ripstop stitching. The less layers of clothing you are wearing the less likely you are to experience heat sink is the theory. Also, wearing a full fire suit "bunker gear" would cause us to rapidly dehydrate and we would literally steam to death.
My original point was that there have been many leaps and bounds made since NOMEX, you just have to choose which material is right for you. I do forest firefighting in my PBI's (which are black) and I feel better than wearing older generations of the same material even though the new stuff is about twice as thick. The only time it has ever bothered me is when it is humid and I think clothing in general will bother you when it is humid.
Cheers
About five or six years ago a Winnipeg Firefighter had to jump from the second story of a house as a fireball was chasing him (the condition he was in is known as flashover and a firefighters life expectancy in one is about three seconds) he had several injuries from the fall (Imagine jumping wearing 25 pounds of fire gear and the 15 pounds of breathing apparatus) When they got him to the hospital they realized that they had far graver issues. He had circumferential burns on his forearms. The degree of severity of these burns was cutting off circulation to the hands and he very nearly lost them. He was in recovery and physio for over 8 months.
The reason he received these circumferential burns was a phenomenon known as "heat sink". His burns were completely circumferential and very uniform, it was as if a line had been drawn on his skin where the burns start and stop. Other firemen quickly figured out that these burns were in the same relative area as his reflective striping would have been when he was wearing his jacket. Whoa. It was later found that this reflective striping has high heat tolerance, so it doesn't melt off of your clothing. Being that it is very resistant it also means that it traps heat, everything does, the higher heat resistance an article of clothing has the longer it will take for heat to dissipate from that article of clothing. In this poor man's case, the striping had a heat resistance of just a bit higher than the rest of the clothing and therefore he was burned only in those places.
We (firefighters) have long known that this can happen but never attributed it to the striping, just the heat in the atmosphere being almost too much for the gear. When you go into the flashover simulator (They create flashover but you and your buddies are at a level about 3 feet lower than the flashover, that equals a safe spot) they say very clearly that you are not to slap a buddy on the back or grab him by the arm as you will compress the clothing over that area and burn your mate.
Now, in the oilfield we have the potential to be exposed to heat sink alot and when it occurs it is very rapid. When fighting a rig fire or "blowout" we often wear coveralls, that's it. We wear the PBI Black Gold Flightsuits with ripstop stitching. The less layers of clothing you are wearing the less likely you are to experience heat sink is the theory. Also, wearing a full fire suit "bunker gear" would cause us to rapidly dehydrate and we would literally steam to death.
My original point was that there have been many leaps and bounds made since NOMEX, you just have to choose which material is right for you. I do forest firefighting in my PBI's (which are black) and I feel better than wearing older generations of the same material even though the new stuff is about twice as thick. The only time it has ever bothered me is when it is humid and I think clothing in general will bother you when it is humid.
Cheers
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Jungle said:
Divisional shoulder sleeve insignia worn on the right hand side indicate former combat service, not current unit. Do Air Force personnel transferred from the Army continue to wear former unit patches in this manner?
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Jungle said:Good question, I searched the USAF site and didn't find anything on combat patches.
Chances are, if the USAF is like our Air Force, they have NO dress regs...
Might explain the lack of a hat too....
D
D-n-A
Guest
The USAF tiger stripe is blue.
And for USAF pers wearing US Army Divisional insignia, maybe they were attached to that unit during a tour.
Awhile ago I saw a photo of a USAF S/Sgt wearing 101st insignia on her right sleeve, picture was taken in Afghanistan.
And for USAF pers wearing US Army Divisional insignia, maybe they were attached to that unit during a tour.
Awhile ago I saw a photo of a USAF S/Sgt wearing 101st insignia on her right sleeve, picture was taken in Afghanistan.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Combat_Cook said:
That answers the question! Thanks CC.
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Jungle, the uniform ont the photo you post IS Tiger Stripe - Not the new ACU.
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Here are a couple pics I saw. Now I'm really confused as to what they're using. The bluish one, or this? They're both from the same site.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic01.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic03.jpg
Here's the site: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/acu.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic01.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic03.jpg
Here's the site: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/acu.htm
D
D-n-A
Guest
OShea, the pics you posted are of the new US Army ACU. The blue tiger stripe uniforms are for the US Air Force(garrison uniform). I'm not sure if the USAF has actually started to issue out the blue tigerstripe uniforms or not though.
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Some pers. at Wright-Patterson AFB were wearing the tiger stripe when I was there in May. I gather this is a tial run then?
J
JokerFMJ
Guest
I know this is kind of an old topic but I figured i'd just say this... Those blue tiger stripes were going to be the new Air Force Uniforms (they were in a test face when ya'll saw them, and to some extent still are in a test phase). However, they made modifications and are now testing a new uniform (or will be very shortly) that is extremely similar to the Army's ACU. Same color, pixelated, but still tiger striped. Haven't seen a picture yet, just going from what I read in the AF Times.
S
Storm
Guest
JokerFMJ said:
Pixelated tiger stripe? That should be interesting to see. I wonder if the tiger stripe in pixels would add to the effectiveness of camouflage over regular pixels (not that it really matters for the air force).
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