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SFontaine
Guest
I apologize, Infanteer. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the USMC, it's just that from what I've observed seeing interviews with Marine combat veterans and seeing various videos out of Iraq, the Corps seems to respond with absolutely everything they have when returning fire, no matter how little fire they receive. A video that immediately comes to mind is one outside a university in Baghdad where a group of Marines come under fire from a knocked out AA position and they open up with their 249s, 203s and LAWs on the suspected enemy position. Most of what I see from the Army involves quick short bursts of accurate controlled fire.
I spoke to a friend of mine who went off for Army Basic yesterday (Yes I know, no expert) and asked him why he isn't joining the Marine Corps, as he originally planned, and he told me it's because during, and ever since, Vietnam the Marines devolved into firing off thousands of rounds of ammo into the suspected enemy position when they come under fire and leaving it at that, whereas the Army reviews the threat and repleis with an appropriate amount of fire.
Again, I have nothing but respect for the USMC but I believe that a times they're heavy handed when responding to threats and I also accept that I could be wrong, as I'm not a combat veteran and don't know the specifics of the situations cited. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I spoke to a friend of mine who went off for Army Basic yesterday (Yes I know, no expert) and asked him why he isn't joining the Marine Corps, as he originally planned, and he told me it's because during, and ever since, Vietnam the Marines devolved into firing off thousands of rounds of ammo into the suspected enemy position when they come under fire and leaving it at that, whereas the Army reviews the threat and repleis with an appropriate amount of fire.
Again, I have nothing but respect for the USMC but I believe that a times they're heavy handed when responding to threats and I also accept that I could be wrong, as I'm not a combat veteran and don't know the specifics of the situations cited. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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IMO I think their new uniforms look rediculous and cant see it being very effective in the fields either, it doesnt look tan,geen and greay as they suggested, it looks just light grey.
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NavyGrunt
Guest
We havent seen operational photos. How can you say they "stupid"??? You think they are going to send their troops looking like grey blobs in the woods? Wait to see it in action before we poopoo. I dont think they'd make that kind of mistake. They do dumb things in R and D but come on.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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"Again, I have nothing but respect for the USMC but I believe that a times they're heavy handed when responding to threats and I also accept that I could be wrong, as I'm not a combat veteran and don't know the specifics of the situations cited. Correct me if I'm wrong."
It's probably pretty easy to say a marine is using too much firepower when your sitting at home watching videos on the internet compared to watching your best friends getting shot up and killed by someone hiding inside a building. Or not knowing if it's one guy shooting at you or 50 of them waiting with RPGs.
It's probably pretty easy to say a marine is using too much firepower when your sitting at home watching videos on the internet compared to watching your best friends getting shot up and killed by someone hiding inside a building. Or not knowing if it's one guy shooting at you or 50 of them waiting with RPGs.
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NavyGrunt
Guest
Ghost778 said:
And this really is the bottom line.
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SFontaine
Guest
RopeTech said:
Just like I said. Anyway let's end this little "debate". My comment was stupid, and as such apologize for it.
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SFontaine
Guest
http://www.militarymorons.com/misc/misc.html#acu
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Well, that link from military morons sure shows that, on the surfaces that he picked, at least, that the ACU sure does stand out, doesn't it?
To me, it looks like they designed it for the desert over in the middle east, and on the 'desert photo', it seems to work OK, but in the woodland photos, it sticks out like a sore thumb. ???
The picture that has all three samples draped in the tree, they all have the same amount of shade, and the ACU stands out like a white surrender flag. PROBABLY NOT what they were trying to achieve. Heck, in that picture the MARPAT (Desert) even blends better than the Woodland, and totally better than the ACU.
Now, the cut of the uniform, THAT I like. It looks very crisp and professional, and the extra pockets for elbow and knee padding are a great idea, as are the calf pockets. It always seems like I am running out of pockets to put $hit. ;D
Oh well, like many others have said, I hope that it works out better than we here think it will, or it is going to be one expensive experiment. I guess those guys from Stryker, etc, know what they are doing.
To me, it looks like they designed it for the desert over in the middle east, and on the 'desert photo', it seems to work OK, but in the woodland photos, it sticks out like a sore thumb. ???
The picture that has all three samples draped in the tree, they all have the same amount of shade, and the ACU stands out like a white surrender flag. PROBABLY NOT what they were trying to achieve. Heck, in that picture the MARPAT (Desert) even blends better than the Woodland, and totally better than the ACU.
Now, the cut of the uniform, THAT I like. It looks very crisp and professional, and the extra pockets for elbow and knee padding are a great idea, as are the calf pockets. It always seems like I am running out of pockets to put $hit. ;D
Oh well, like many others have said, I hope that it works out better than we here think it will, or it is going to be one expensive experiment. I guess those guys from Stryker, etc, know what they are doing.
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Here's some photo's of it.
The coller also can been worn in the normal position along with a closed neck as seen.(I like this)
On the ankle's is a pocket for ammo when kneeling (I like that also)
The shoulder's and all insignia are attached by velcro aslo the armpit's are baggy to allow more movement.
Plus the shirt has a two way zipper.
The coller also can been worn in the normal position along with a closed neck as seen.(I like this)
On the ankle's is a pocket for ammo when kneeling (I like that also)
The shoulder's and all insignia are attached by velcro aslo the armpit's are baggy to allow more movement.
Plus the shirt has a two way zipper.
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Hawaii Mike
Guest
I know one thing about this new uniform: every fat-assed REMF supply clerk, 1st Sgt, Pentagon wienie and armchair commando will have a full complement before do the grunts in the field. Seems in this case the Army is unwilling (again) to admit the Marines have the better idea; and unable to eat crow and ask the Marines for the rights to the pattern.
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Gee, what does that remind everybody in CADPAT of?
I wondered about that as well; I always figured the two MARPAT patterns where good enough (Although I thought one was a little two orangy). If that funny tiger-stripe Air Force Pattern I seen was true, then I see interservice rivalry is still alive and strong for you guys.
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What are these uniform materials made of? CADPAT and the new US uniforms? I'm curious to know if anyone is wearing NOMEX or PBI in their uniforms.
In the Oilfield (Canadian side at least) fire resistant material is law. The company I work for spent $600/each on PBI Ripstop coveralls for us. Best workwear I have ever worn. Comfortable, flash, heat and char resistant and you can only tear a quarter inch of material before the integrated stitching stops the rip. I know that 600 bucks is a very big stretch for one article of clothing for a soldier, just curious if anyone has any info on soldiers already wearing FR materials....Possibly SARTECHS, Assaulters, Aircrews?
Cheers
In the Oilfield (Canadian side at least) fire resistant material is law. The company I work for spent $600/each on PBI Ripstop coveralls for us. Best workwear I have ever worn. Comfortable, flash, heat and char resistant and you can only tear a quarter inch of material before the integrated stitching stops the rip. I know that 600 bucks is a very big stretch for one article of clothing for a soldier, just curious if anyone has any info on soldiers already wearing FR materials....Possibly SARTECHS, Assaulters, Aircrews?
Cheers
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Major Baker
I remember reading or hearing that the USARMY Uniforms (BDU's) cost around 60.00 dollars US and the new ACU are going to be about 20-30 dollars more then the BDU's. any truth to this that you know of?
Thanks
I remember reading or hearing that the USARMY Uniforms (BDU's) cost around 60.00 dollars US and the new ACU are going to be about 20-30 dollars more then the BDU's. any truth to this that you know of?
Thanks
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Just so you know, S_Baker, I was in no way trying to disparage the new USArmy Camo Pattern, just, more than anything, sort of writing out my observations, based on Military Morons' page, more to get them straight in my own head, more than anything else.
I hope that I get a chance to see them, sooner, rather than later. I guess that knockoffs may start appearing in the Surplus shops and stuff, so may get a chance to see what they 'sort-of' look like
And, I totally love the cut, with all the extra pockets, etc. I am a pocket junkie, and love to utilize them all. Drives my wife nuts, the majority of my civvi pants are covered in cargo pockets.
I have only been on this board since 2 July, but already am totally impressed with how knowledgable (or at least the impression of it ) a large majority of the people here are.
And, ever since I got my Relish Combats (CADPAT), I have become MUCH more aware of how many different patterns are out there. Before, I just had heard of USArmy Woodland, British DPM, and Olive Green / Monotone patterns, and just assumed that most countries used these, or versions thereof. Wow, have my eyes been opened. Sometimes, I wish that they weren't opened (Belgian Camo looks like a Hawaiian shirt, in my not so professional opinion)
Have a good one.
I hope that I get a chance to see them, sooner, rather than later. I guess that knockoffs may start appearing in the Surplus shops and stuff, so may get a chance to see what they 'sort-of' look like
And, I totally love the cut, with all the extra pockets, etc. I am a pocket junkie, and love to utilize them all. Drives my wife nuts, the majority of my civvi pants are covered in cargo pockets.I have only been on this board since 2 July, but already am totally impressed with how knowledgable (or at least the impression of it
) a large majority of the people here are.And, ever since I got my Relish Combats (CADPAT), I have become MUCH more aware of how many different patterns are out there. Before, I just had heard of USArmy Woodland, British DPM, and Olive Green / Monotone patterns, and just assumed that most countries used these, or versions thereof. Wow, have my eyes been opened. Sometimes, I wish that they weren't opened (Belgian Camo looks like a Hawaiian shirt, in my not so professional opinion)
Have a good one.
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