Native protesters

[UberCree]

Seeing some of you try to "solve" the Native problem (via economic theory, forced assimilation, threats, etc.) is about as educational as watching the Polaris Group "solve" the military problem. 

The disconnect is astounding. 

 

[Kirkhill]

Seeing some of you try to "solve" the Native problem (via economic theory, forced assimilation, threats, etc.) is about as educational as watching the Polaris Group "solve" the military problem.   

Ouch!!! Now that hurts.  ;D

 

[ambex]

Seeing some of you try to "solve" the Native problem (via economic theory, forced assimilation, threats, etc.) is about as educational as watching the Polaris Group "solve" the military problem. 

The disconnect is astounding. 

So because I am white that means nothing I say is relevant? Prejudice is a two way street friend.

 

[Trinity]

So because I am white that means nothing I say is relevant? Prejudice is a two way street friend.

I'm actually quite disappointed in you ambex.

You've posted once in this thread.. I checked all of your posts.

His comment is not directly pointed at you.
Also, you have no right to drop the race card, especially being white.

Your comment is cheap, insulting, and trolling.

Your comment wasn't meant to encourage dialogue... it was meant to
start a fight.  And I'm stopping it.  Everyone back on topic... and let
a mod come and erase the last few posts including mine.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm actually quite disappointed in you ambex.

You've posted once in this thread.. I checked all of your posts.

His comment is not directly pointed at you.
Also, you have no right to drop the race card, especially being white.

Your comment is cheap, insulting, and trolling.

Your comment wasn't meant to encourage dialogue... it was meant to
start a fight.  And I'm stopping it.   Everyone back on topic... and let
a mod come and erase the last few posts including mine.

C'mon. We've been skirting, using fancy words and being just PC enough in this whole thread to stay just outside those bounds of being "racist", It's all crap and a crutch. People need a 'Hand up" not a "Hand out" to steal a phrase. Once that has been given, they thrive.... or die. Like every section of the cities that retain their culture. The 'Little Italys", Little Saigons", the "Polish Quarter", have all done well and retained culture, heritage and identity. They've done so by depending on each other, trusting each other, helping each other and working hard. It's worked for every segment in society today............save one. Why can't the Aboriginals accomplish the same standard? This is no longer my problem, and really never has been. As has been stated earlier, what happened a thousand, a hundred, or even fifty years ago, is not my fault. I have no guilt and see no reason to have to pay for it. I'll give anyone a chance, but if you don't grab the rope, don't expect me to keep making circles with the boat until you decide you've made your point. I'm truly sorry, in a humanitarian way, for what's happened previously. The Aboriginals are not the only ones that were abused by priests and nuns. They don't have a corner or precedent when it comes to being subjugated, humiliated and decimated by another sector of the world societies. That's happened to thousands of cultures and civilisations world wide since time began. If you want to live totally in the old ways, fine. Give up everything we've brought. Gas, hydro, firearms, the gambit. If you wish to retain even the tiniest part of this civilisation and period of time, get on with it and join it. Personally, I've had enough of all your PC sparing, on both sides, There's nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage and customs, no matter what they are or their origins, but I'm not financially or morally responsible for maintaining or succoring them, .....at all....ever.....and never will be.

 

[ArmyRick]

OK Ubercree, we military folk know nothing about aboriginal affairs. Please tell us what a workable and realistic solution would be, short and long term.

 

[cplcaldwell]

UberCree: for the FIFTH TIME I am not talking about forced relocation.

I am talking about creating a reserve in a city that would allow natives to retain the benefits of reserve life (i.e having the cultural and social support network that is important to the aboriginal culture) whilst having the benefits of being close to the centers of economic activity in this country.

Again, I would point out the beneficial aspects of the new reserve of the Muskeg Lake Cree Nation at Saskatoon.

 

[rmacqueen]

I am talking about creating a reserve in a city that would allow natives to retain the benefits of reserve life (i.e having the cultural and social support network that is important to the aboriginal culture) whilst having the benefits of being close to the centers of economic activity in this country.

That is kind of what 6 Nations is just outside of Brantford, Ont and the Chippewa of the Thames on the outskirts of Sarnia, Ont.  What this has created is the Caledonia standoff, based on native claims to the land, and a land claim in Sarnia based on the gradual shrinking of the reserve to build chemical plants.  Now, it would be nice to say we could build this sort of thing but why would any of the First Nations trust us to live up to the agreement since, as seen on this thread, a large portion of the people think we should be ripping up our agreements with the natives.

It also still wouldn't help the economic situation either as the problems are systemic.  The fact that anyone on a reserve cannot get a bank loan limits their ability to generate income.  Non-natives usually start creating a credit history by getting a credit card or car loan using a co-signor.  This is not an option for natives on the reserve, the system makes them dependent on government cheques.  Oh, and since, even if it was an urban reserve, they would have no way to get to work, how can they improve their situation?  This isn't only a native issue either, I see it in the small village I live in.  People move here because without a car they cannot work so can get welfare without a hassle.

 

[UberCree]

Ouch!!! Now that hurts.  ;D

;D

I knew the words "Polaris Institute" would lighten the tone.  ;D

If I had answers, I'd be the first to tell you.  My answer would involves increasing bold eagle so every FN youth was a conscript, but I dont think that would fly.

 

[cplcaldwell]

Now, it would be nice to say we could build this sort of thing but why would any of the First Nations trust us to live up to the agreement...

Quite right, a real problem.

It's clear that some framework exists to allow us to move forward. The reserves you mentioned are,at first glance and given my limited knowledge, candidates to move forward on.

There are problems that are systemic, and I quite agree that if we are going to say to aboriginals, 'come participate in the economy', we must give them the tools to build equity and credit in order to do so.

So I ask you, and I have no preconceived notions and am not lying in ambush with a smart *** answer : what are the obstacles to giving these tools, the ability to generate equity by owning property, to have and earn credit, and so forth?

Now, I know the current structure of the Indian Act is the obvious answer, but what, on all sides, is holding the changes that would be necessary?

 

[rmacqueen]

Now, I know the current structure of the Indian Act is the obvious answer, but what, on all sides, is holding the changes that would be necessary?

Politics and public perception.  Again I point to the reaction whenever anyone brings up self-government when really all the FN want is the powers of a municipality.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  Oh, and since, even if it was an urban reserve, they would have no way to get to work, how can they improve their situation?  This isn't only a native issue either, I see it in the small village I live in.  People move here because without a car they cannot work so can get welfare without a hassle.

Why is it a lot of those who use the "white mans guilt" as a weapon to defend the good people of the First Nations write the most stupid condensending things that I have ever had the misfortune to read in my life??

"ONLY"?? ......Not to mention the underlying [among others] "they won't be able to drive??   

Your defence underwhelms me.......

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Politics and public perception.  Again I point to the reaction whenever anyone brings up self-government when really all the FN want is the powers of a municipality.

What reaction??...............as long as, like a municipality, the political process is open to anyone, its a great idea.

 

[rmacqueen]

Your defence underwhelms me.......

Mr Monkhouse, I have read many of your posts in this thread and in everyone you are rude and confrontational.  Until this point I have refrained from responding to your taunts and insults toward others, as well as myself,  because you are a member of the directing staff but, I have had enough.  Your manner and tone is not even worthy of a petulant child.  I have seen others post on here in a more civil tone and been warned about the tone of their posts and, I believe, were you not in the position you are in on this site you too would be.  You attack anyone who disagees with you, you taunt and insult and, in the end, you add very little to the actual discussion.

For further info I would direct you to http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

I will not respond to anything further you post as it is not worth my time.

End of Rant

 

[ArmyRick]

Macqueen, I disagree with you on Bruce's comments.

 

[Trinity]

Macqueen, I disagree with you on Bruce's comments.

I like Bruce..

But I can see how rmacqueen may feel that way.

Queen has been typing out long posts/ideas and Bruce
has been doing one or two liners cutting them down. I looked
through the entire thread and for the most part Bruce hasn't posted
all that much.. but did have a nasty spat with domestic niner which
seemed to end quickly and seem to be in retaliation. 

And.. well.. Bruce doesn't mix words. 

So I understand why rmacqueen feels way.... but I'm afraid he'll
have to learn how to deal with alledged bullies in debating.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

rmacqueen,

Just so you know,....I separate my duties as Staff from my posts as a member here.

NO one has ever been banned/warned just for disagreeing with me......nor will anyone.

 

[rmacqueen]

So I understand why rmacqueen feels way.... but I'm afraid he'll
have to learn how to deal with alledged bullies in debating.

I have no problem dealing with bullies but I do expect a certain comportment by members of the directing staff, especially when I have seen others placed on warning for lesser infractions because of the tone of their posts

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Sorry, but there was no "tone" to my post.......its pretty black and white, IMO, your post was condensening to a whole lot of good people and therefore I gave it what it deserved,...distain.

Read what you wrote again.........

 

[Scott]

I have no problem dealing with bullies but I do expect a certain comportment by members of the directing staff, especially when I have seen others placed on warning for lesser infractions because of the tone of their posts

Ease up there. I see no "bullying" here, you are complaining about cheap shots and then you deliver one.

rmacqueen,

Just so you know,....I separate my duties as Staff from my posts as a member here.

NO one has ever been banned/warned just for disagreeing with me......nor will anyone.

Did you miss this?

Once again, I'd hate to lock this because of a pissing match.