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Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)

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Jarnhamar said:
They spoke about destroying anyone who displaced Muslims, killing everyone and sparing no none and purifying the mosque from the filth of the jews.  I'm curious why the government didn't call them out for hate speech or intolerance.  If you have time you should check out hidden cameras inside Mosques in the UK and rest of Europe, pretty wild stuff.
I'm not really a fan either.
I find they aren't afraid to ask uncomfortable questions or combat SJWs, Virtue signalling and other PC stuff but at the same time lots of their stuff seems to very intentionally try and ramp up the right-wing. It's impossible to bring up counter points or arguments with their followers on SM without being attacked.


Big question I have is would Lauren Southern (of the rebel) be allowed to pray with fellow men in a Mosque in Canada? She had her gender legally changed so she's male now. Muslims in Canada have to respect our laws about gender right?

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You must be kidding, right?
 
Remius said:
Maybe, but I have yet to see anything that supports that.  In fact there is very little data that I could find that indicates who exactly is committing the hate crimes. 

A few interesting tidbits I can across.

Most hate crimes are race based.  In second place is religious targeted hate crime.  Except in Quebec.  It seems that religious hate based crimes are more prevalent there than race based ones.

The vast majority of hate crimes are committed by young males against targets that are generally older.  Something like 81%.  But against muslims the rate of women commiting these crimes goes up to 35% and that female muslims have higher victim rates (the theory is that they are more visible die to hijabs and what not)

Most hate based crime happens in large urban centers and overall is on the decline except for muslim victims that are increasing.

Most religious hate crimes are non violent and involve either slurs, threats and vandalism. 

The sub group that gets the most violence proportionately are homosexuals and then mostly men. '

Anyways it would be interesting if anyone could find stats relative to who (other than age and gender) is actually commiting these crimes and in particular against which groups and by what motivation.

There are a lot of cultures that have a lot of grudges with Muslims and often for good reasons, Islam has been pushing the fundamentalist Sunni and Shia view heavily in the last 30 years or so, so it would be more surprising that there was no backlash.
 
Jed,  not at all.  Lauren is legally male.

Bit of a weak attempt by me to inject some levity but also a serious question: would "he" be allowed to pray at a mosque and would the government enforce our rules about gender identity and all that.
 
Remius said:
And they are falling for it.  No law or bill will come from this.  We already have legislation that covers this and the liberals know this.  The CPC should have just supported it let it pass and it would have all gone away.  Instead they got distracted by something shiny.

How do you enforce condemnation? With our existing laws I presume. You are correct that the Libs are playing politics, as long as they don't try to continue to silence their opposition, it shouldn't completely blow up in their face. If they play these games much longer, I predict they will lose miserably next election.

Good article http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com%2Ffull-comment%2Fbarbara-kay-actually-one-neednt-be-a-hysterical-bigot-to-have-concerns-with-m-103&pubdate=2017-02-21
 
[quote author=GnyHwy]
Good article http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com%2Ffull-comment%2Fbarbara-kay-actually-one-neednt-be-a-hysterical-bigot-to-have-concerns-with-m-103&pubdate=2017-02-21
[/quote]

at least two sermons distributed on Youtube, imam Sayyid al-Ghitaoui of Montreal’s Al-Andalus Islamic Centre called for Allah to “destroy the accursed Jews,” to “kill them one by one” and to “make their children orphans and their women widows.

No hate crime - hate speech  investigation.
Why is it Muslim imans can seemingly get away with talking about killing Jews all the time?
 
Jarnhamar said:
No hate crime - hate speech  investigation.
Why is it Muslims imans can seemingly get away with talking about killing Jews all the time?

Hey, they are just quoting their Religious texts, I suppose a Christian could do the same by quoting some Old Testament passages.  :sarcasm:
 
Of course they shot it down.  It did not include the word "Islamophobia".  It was a tempered, generic motion and as such did not fall within the scope of their "anti-Islamophobia" campaign to give special attention to a small segment of our society.  I would equate it to a spoiled child not getting their way.
 
"at least two sermons distributed on Youtube, imam Sayyid al-Ghitaoui of Montreal’s Al-Andalus Islamic Centre called for Allah to “destroy the accursed Jews,” to “kill them one by one” and to “make their children orphans and their women widows."

Bit of fallacy there, orphans grow up and breed, especially if all the women are widows.  That prayer would not solve their Jewish problem, they want to re-think it.  Allah pretty busy these days with all the martyrs and all. 
 
George Wallace said:
Of course they shot it down.  It did not include the word "Islamophobia".  It was a tempered, generic motion and as such did not fall within the scope of their "anti-Islamophobia" campaign to give special attention to a small segment of our society.  I would equate it to a spoiled child not getting their way.

And that surprises you, George? Isn't this motion a private member one coming from the party who gave us "I am dying. Be good to me by changing the words of the National Anthem - just because I've always wanted to do so."
 
Lightguns said:
"  Allah pretty busy these days with all the martyrs and all.
  \Must be coming close to running out of virgins.  Seriously though this entire issue is occupying all too much precious time.  Regardless of which side one is on; and for the record I disagree with the motion entirely, it has only served to alienate.

Legislation creates friction which causes protests which lead to people being hurt.  As the old song said "legislation can't bring integration" and what was true of the south is definitely applicable to all forms of racism. All that the antics in OW have accomplished is to make it more difficult for people to get along because they have been forced to take sides.
 
Most governments wait until the later part of their mandate before ramping up the bread and circuses. This one certainly seems to have the circuses part sorted out.
 
Awkward

http://m.torontosun.com/2017/02/22/police-probe-imans-sermons

oronto Police have launched an investigation into whether alleged hate speech was preached by two speakers at the Masjid Toronto mosque in 2016.

“With a complaint filed, there is now an investigation,” Toronto Police spokesman Mark Pugash confirmed Wednesday.

In addition to the police investigation, the Muslim Association of Canada (MAC) has also opened its own internal investigation.

Police are also investigating hate crime complaints against people protesting in front of the downtown mosque Friday.

But media allegations suggesting people could be spewing hate speech while protesting such things as Sharia Law, ISIS and beheadings, prompted former Israeli intelligence colonel Jonathan Halevi to dig up shocking translated sermons from two imams during 2016’s Ramadan observance.

The sermons included things such as the need to “purify” the Dome of Rock mosque in Jerusalem of the “filth of the Jews” and slaying non-believers, infidels and polytheists.

“The double standard and hypocrisy was appalling,” said Halevi, who alleges the hate was happening inside the mosque — not outside. 
 
Looks like I spoke too soon.  Good on the police for investigating the 2016 incident.

Does Canada actually have a blasphemy law or anything of the sort? Caught this semi-related story


http://www.therebel.media/is_this_a_preview_of_m103_man_who_burned_quran_charged_with_blasphemy_in_denmark
A 42-year-old man in Denmark is being charged with blasphemy after filming himself burning the Quran. He will be the first person to be charged under Denmark's blasphemy law in 46 years.

 
In Canada, it has to be in written form, Jarnhamar. It is section 296 of the criminal Code:

Blasphemous Libel

s.296 (1) [offence] Every one who publishes a blasphemous libel is guilty an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

(2) [Question of fact] It is a question of fact wether or not any matter that is published is a blasphemous libel.

(3) [Saving] No person shall be convicted of an offence under this section for expressing in good faith and in decent language, or attempting to establish by argument used in good faith and conveyed in decent language, an opinion on a religious subject.


First of all, I'll thank god, or the gods, if any, that it is limited to published blasphemy, and not verbal ones. Otherwise, just about every French Canadian would be behind bars by now.  ;D

On a more serious note, stats I have seen, that go back about 30 years, show no prosecution under that section of the code. I very much doubt that there has been a prosecution at least as far back as the adoption of he Charter and so, the validity of this section under the Charter has not been tested yet. I much rather like to think it is just one of those section that has become irrelevant but has not yet been expunged from the code.
 
Jarnhamar said:
Looks like I spoke too soon.  Good on the police for investigating the 2016 incident.

/quote]

Agreed.  they should be prosecuted like anyone else caught spewing that kind of garbage. 
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
In Canada, it has to be in written form, Jarnhamar. It is section 296 of the criminal Code:

Blasphemous Libel

s.296 (1) [offence] Every one who publishes a blasphemous libel is guilty an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

(2) [Question of fact] It is a question of fact wether or not any matter that is published is a blasphemous libel.

(3) [Saving] No person shall be convicted of an offence under this section for expressing in good faith and in decent language, or attempting to establish by argument used in good faith and conveyed in decent language, an opinion on a religious subject.


First of all, I'll thank god, or the gods, if any, that it is limited to published blasphemy, and not verbal ones. Otherwise, just about every French Canadian would be behind bars by now.  ;D

On a more serious note, stats I have seen, that go back about 30 years, show no prosecution under that section of the code. I very much doubt that there has been a prosecution at least as far back as the adoption of he Charter and so, the validity of this section under the Charter has not been tested yet. I much rather like to think it is just one of those section that has become irrelevant but has not yet been expunged from the code.

Thank you for digging that up for me.  I kind of assumed we had something like that on the books (like the random weird laws still on the books- Taxi drivers can’t wear a T-Shirt in Halifax).

The story I posted makes me wonder if something like that could happen in our own future. Maybe it's time we take blasphemy laws out of the books.
 
YZT580 said:
  \Must be coming close to running out of virgins.

Nope.

There are still many thousands of mid-thirties male computer-game-playing Star Wars fans living in their parents' basements and ripe for the plucking.
 
also a timely piece to show how muddy the waters are

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/22/heres-why-i-fear-islam-prime-minister#.WK7Juy_UVR4.facebook


 
Meanwhile, yesterday, in the Ontario Legislature ...
... Mme Nathalie Des Rosiers*: I move that, in the opinion of this House, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario’s culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario’s cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance; rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments; denounce hate attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith; condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government’s efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness, including Islamophobia, in all parts of the province.

(...)

Mr. Patrick Brown**: I’m proud to rise in support of this motion today condemning Islamophobia. Simply put, all forms of hate and discrimination against people of any faith, including Muslims, is wrong. Hate is hate.

This is a serious problem that must be addressed head-on. We have seen too many acts of hatred and violence against our friends in the Muslim community. Recently, the world watched in horror and Canadians across the country grieved as we saw that horrible mass shooting in the Quebec Islamic cultural centre, where six Canadians of Muslim faith were killed and 19 were injured. In May, a university student from Iran suffered a concussion after being punched repeatedly and told to go back to his country—how sickening. In 2015, there was a fire-bombing of a mosque in Peterborough that was declared a hate crime. For all these troubling incidents, there are, unfortunately, others that go unreported.

All this is completely unacceptable. That’s not Ontario. That’s not Canada. As public servants, we must condemn these acts. The Constitution Act of 1982 guarantees that everyone has the freedom of conscience and religion. It is not simply a Canadian value; it is a fundamental human right. People should be free to worship without fear of violence or persecution.

We will not be divided by those who preach hate. Our values will always be stronger than the spirit that seeks to divide our home and pit community against community, neighbour against neighbour, family against family, citizens against citizens. Here in Canada, we don’t tolerate this division. We celebrate our unity. We celebrate our multiculturalism. That’s the beautiful story of Canada.

We recognize that one of our greatest sources of strength is our pluralism; that no matter the colour of your skin, which part of the world you come from, what language you speak, whether you attend a mosque on Friday, a synagogue on Saturday or a church on Sunday, every distinct element of who we are as a people comes together to form this beautiful mosaic that is Canada.

Our country is made up—one description was—of people who have been on the wrong side of history. That includes United Empire Loyalists, refugees from the American Revolution; the Irish, who fled famine; slaves who followed the North Star to freedom; Chinese workers willing to work for a dollar a day; Jews who survived the Holocaust; eastern Europeans who escaped the yoke of communism; the Vietnamese boat people who escaped the horrors of war; and many, many others. That’s part of our national fabric. We are a nation of many backgrounds brought together to take a chance of finding that dream of Canada together, that dream of freedom and opportunities for everyone regardless of your faith.

On a more personal note: When I read about the motion from the member from Ottawa–Vanier, it was without reservation that I wanted to support it, because this Islamophobia is real, and we have to condemn it unreservedly.

When that horrible terrorist attack happened, the hate crime in Quebec city, my immediate reaction was to want to go visit some of my friends of the Muslim faith. In the south end of Barrie, there’s a gathering where the Muslim community meets in Barrie. I went to go hug friends. I have a friend, Tahir Nawaz, who’s a taxi driver in Barrie, who came from Pakistan to Canada. I went to give him a hug, and I said, “You’re surrounded by friends. Don’t let anyone who preaches hate leave you with the impression that anyone in Canada condones that. We will always denounce hate.” I think of Tahir when we see these hate crimes, but I think, there is a wonderful man who has his boys in Barrie—I’ve played ball hockey with them on the street. Why should his boys, growing up in Barrie, ever have to fear that hate? We must denounce that hate.

I think of a physician, Dr. Abdu Sharkawy, who’s a physician in Mississauga, a friend who faced a hate crime this past week in his home. I called him to say the same thing: that you are surrounded by friends, that our country and our province unreservedly look at those cowards who preach hate and we denounce it, and will never, ever tolerate that.

I think of my good friend Adam Ibrahim in Windsor, who sent me a note. He told me his wife had trouble sleeping when this happened because she was scared, as someone being of Muslim faith. Adam sent me a nice note. In his email he said that she wasn’t as scared when she saw the responses of everyone, the fact that across the board everyone was condemning this hate, that in our Legislature there was no issue or contention, that everyone in this Legislature condemns it without reservation. That gave hope, that gave a sense of optimism to his wife, and it made me think that I am proud of our Legislature today. I am proud of Queen’s Park.

I support this motion as a moment to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Muslim community, to say we stand with you against this hate. I say to the member from Ottawa–Vanier that I stand with you, together, in declaring that this Legislature unequivocally opposes Islamophobia.

Mr. Speaker, the great thing about Ontario is that it doesn’t matter whom you love, what you look like, where you worship—you are welcome here. You are welcome in our incredible province of Ontario.

It was an honour to speak in favour of this motion, and I look forward to voting for it later today.

(...)

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Todd Decker): The ayes are 81; the nays are 0.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I declare the motion carried ...
* - Liberal MPP, Ottawa-Vanier
** - Ontario Conservative Leader
 
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