Motion M-103 coming up (split fm Politics in 2017)

[Fishbone Jones]

Milnews,

I appreciate your response. I just don't agree.

Yes, I'm going to be a little OCD here. Words in themselves are not capable of causing physical injury. The interpretation of those words is unique to the individual. However, if enough people have enough similarities with those thoughts, they will gravitate to like and blend their collective thoughts into a common mission statement. If it results in the discovery of a cancer cure, great! If it results in total annihilation it doesn't change the thought that it is the fault of the interpreter. The interpreter, can decide to act or ignore, based on their emotional and mental condition or training. Anyone in earshot of someone talking makes a conscious decision to listen or not. They then decide whether it's something that interests them. Once they decide they are interested, it's up to them what they do with the situation, and what they heard. Individuals not a collection of spoken letters is what hurt people. I guess the test would be to take a profoundly deaf person, stand behind them and rhyme off hundreds of trigger words and phrases and see if the subject goes bonkers and tries to kill someone.

Semantics? Perhaps. I'm a believer that everyone has a free consciousness. It is you that determines your beliefs, actions and interaction with others. Not the words.

Hope that explains my viewpoint better.

 

[The Bread Guy]

On the contrary if you're pushing an Islamophobes everywhere! agenda then going on and making those kinds of comments will support your own argument and be very helpful. (not what you meant I know   )

What proportion of those comments do you think were made by Muslims who just want to stoke the flames from their side?  I'll go with "more than zero", but I think going lots more than that can lead to this kind of approach.

... you better make sure the field is level ...

Agreed.

... I appreciate your response. I just don't agree ...

I sensed that  ;D  Seriously, it would be a pretty boring thread if we all agreed with one side or another.  I'm just hoping we can continue to share a bit of reasonably-debated content from all sides while keeping the idiocy - from all sides - to a minimum 

 

[Jarnhamar]

What proportion of those comments do you think were made by Muslims who just want to stoke the flames from their side?

Probably not very many, with a chance of none. However there's still a chance some were.

The story about all the comments reads to me like "see I'm right, look at all the Islamophobia".  My argument is that with the anonymity of the internet and the knowledge that minorities ARE getting caught doing fake hate crimes/fake hate speech against themselves [ check out hate crime hoax's int he US ], the story about all the negative comments shes getting isn't proof about anything. Other than people online are assholes.

Sure she's getting hateful comments. But she's not special and neither is Islam in that regard . If you, Milnews,  post a picture of a deer you shot (even stating you donated the meat to chairity)  and it's open source I bet you get comments from anti-hunters about going to your house and murdering your family. People on the internet are psychotic.

The MP suggests that Muslims are especially at risk and pushing a subtle "Islamophobia is special" agenda. I disagree. Many of the definitions of Islamophobia still include "dislike", that's a little too inclusive for me.  I think the next step is treating Islamophobia as a hate crime meaning I might get thrown in front of one of those kangaroo court tribunals for saying I think Islam is barbaric.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Probably not very many, with a chance of none. However there's still a chance some were.

The story about all the comments reads to me like "see I'm right, look at all the Islamophobia".  My argument is that with the anonymity of the internet and the knowledge that minorities ARE getting caught doing fake hate crimes/fake hate speech against themselves [ check out hate crime hoax's int he US ], the story about all the negative comments shes getting isn't proof about anything. Other than people online are assholes.

Sure she's getting hateful comments. But she's not special and neither is Islam in that regard . If you, Milnews,  post a picture of a deer you shot (even stating you donated the meat to chairity)  and it's open source I bet you get comments from anti-hunters about going to your house and murdering your family. People on the internet online personnalities are psychotic.

The MP suggests that Muslims are especially at risk and pushing a subtle "Islamophobia is special" agenda. I disagree. Many of the definitions of Islamophobia still include "dislike", that's a little too inclusive for me.  I think the next step is treating Islamophobia as a hate crime meaning I might get thrown in front of one of those kangaroo court tribunals for saying I think Islam is barbaric.

Fixed that for you ... or as K once said: "A person is smart, but people are stupid."

 

[Journeyman]

I thought the Trump things constituted hat crime.  ;D

Only because of the typo;  obviously spell check wouldn't pick up that it should read, "Make America Grate"

/tangent

 

[Colin Parkinson]

More paving for the road to hell. This is a license for the fundamentalists Muslim to push their crap and suppress their critics. You can bet if you criticize Islam or draw the Prophet, you will be attacked, you can also bet safe money that there is no interest in going after Atheists who belittle Christianity and abuse their symbols. My wife and I will be firing off letters tonight. 

 

[George Wallace]

I neither fear, nor 'dislike' Muslims.  I do have "CONCERNS" about the recent arrivals in the last decade or two of so many from Muslim countries which have less than stellar Human Rights and Social believes and practices.  I wonder if we can have Iqra Khalid give us her views on some of the concerns many Canadians have about:

1.  Female Genital Mutilation;

2.  Child Brides;

3.  Stoning of women who are "accused" of having sex outside of marriage, having "sex" (?) due to being raped, and various other offences under Sharia Law;

4.  Throwing homosexuals to their death or stoning them to death;

5.  The use of Chia Boys and/or the rape of young boys; and

6.  What is her opinion on Sharia Law?

Seriously.  These are not fears, nor dislikes, but serious concerns that run counter to what our societal beliefs are.  To silence those concerns is a slap in the face of our Charter of Human Rights.  Women, the LBGTQ, and children are the real victims here, and we should have serious concerns.

As an aside, the practice in point # 4 makes one wonder why all in point # 5 have not been thrown off of the top of building.

 

[mariomike]

Feb 18, 2017

Police investigate anti-Muslim rally outside Toronto mosque as possible hate crime
Too soon to tell if protest crosses 'fine line' between freedom of expression and criminal act, police say
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-investigate-anti-muslim-rally-hate-crime-1.3990044
Rally held amid debate on anti-Islamophobia motion

 

[Jarnhamar]

Feb 18, 2017

Police investigate anti-Muslim rally outside Toronto mosque as possible hate crime

Destroy anyone who displaced Canadians.
Kill them one by one,  spare no one.
Purify the country from the filth of the  Muslims. 

Think that would be considered islamophobia or hate speech?

I think so, at least hate speech...

Funny thing is there's a certain building in Toronto where this stuff was said last year,  albeit it was targeting a group which represents the highest number of hate crime victims in Canada.

Any guess which building it was?  Here's a hint,  there was just a rally outside of it.

 

[Jed]

Feb 18, 2017

Police investigate anti-Muslim rally outside Toronto mosque as possible hate crime
Too soon to tell if protest crosses 'fine line' between freedom of expression and criminal act, police say
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-investigate-anti-muslim-rally-hate-crime-1.3990044
Rally held amid debate on anti-Islamophobia motion

And simple human nature begins to kick in and all this 'shit' starts. If the followers of the faith keep up the 'poor me I'm a victim' approach and have it intensified by the Media and self serving politicians, this is bound to occur. It appears to me that 'Islam' abhors anything other than 'total submission'. It seems pretty hard for a large number of followers of the faith to get along with their neighbors. Maybe the faith needs a major reformation so most individuals can get along with others that don't submit to 'Allah'?

No one needs or wants this nonsense in our Country.

To be clear I would never support a protest on either side of this issue.  My preferable personal response would be 'look the other way, nothing to see here...'

Peace, out. eace:

 

[George Wallace]

I agree.  Pushing this point is just pushing those with strong opposing views to become more actively present in the public.  It is having the affect of inciting, not quelling, a problem; a problem that is already covered by the Law and by the Charter of Human Rights--So it is actually NOT NECESSARY.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I agree.  Pushing this point is just pushing those with strong opposing views to become more actively present in the public.  It is having the affect of inciting, not quelling, a problem; a problem that is already covered by the Law and by the Charter of Human Rights--So it is actually NOT NECESSARY.

Do you think, maybe, that's what they want?

 

[George Wallace]

Do you think, maybe, that's what they want?

In fact, I would be inclined to believe it could just be that; a chess move to force the hand of others to make a move, for which they can turn around and in the MSM point and say "I told you so."  It still boils down to the Motion inciting, not quelling, the problem.

 

[ModlrMike]

In fact, I would be inclined to believe it could just be that; a chess move to force the hand of others to make a move, for which they can turn around and in the MSM point and say "I told you so."  It still boils down to the Motion inciting, not quelling, the problem.

I would submit that the recent Mosque protest in Toronto might be a by product of the motion.

 

[The Bread Guy]

OK, I'll bite ...

Do you think, maybe, that's what they want?

Any speculation on who "they" might be?

... a chess move to force the hand of others to make a move, for which they can turn around and in the MSM point and say "I told you so."  It still boils down to the Motion inciting, not quelling, the problem.

Any speculation on who the chess players may be?  And what "make a move" might entail?  And if such a move was, to speculate a bit myself, listed as verboten in the Criminal Code, "the Motion made this person do it" will be a defence or justification?  Or would it be "they's" fault?

I would submit that the recent Mosque protest in Toronto might be a by product of the motion.

I can't wait for defence counsel to use that.

I think the motion is redundant and political, but I don't know if I'd go as far as saying that if an idiot becomes more idiotic than usual, the motion is to blame.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

OK, I'll bite ...Any speculation on who "they" might be?

Nope. Just wondered is all. Nothing nefarious, racist, anti-anything and no phobias. I was actually hoping to hear different views.  You can answer it, delete it or question my meanings further, but I'm done with it. Don't care anymore. It's already gone down the tubes.

Sometimes a question is just a question, so you can untwist your panties.

 

[George Wallace]

Any speculation on who the chess players may be?  And what "make a move" might entail? 

My bets would be the people making the Motion and to win points in the MSM and say that they were "right all along".  Simple as that.  Politics in the 21st Century hasn't changed that much; only the mediums.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Sometimes a question is just a question, so you can untwist your panties.

Like cigars, I guess.

 

[The Bread Guy]

My bets would be the people making the Motion and to win points in the MSM and say that they were "right all along".  Simple as that.  Politics in the 21st Century hasn't changed that much; only the mediums.

Just making sure who to blame if someone goes full idiot over this - it's the politicians' fault, not anyone being an idiot.

 

[George Wallace]

Just making sure who to blame if someone goes full idiot over this - it's the politicians' fault, not anyone being an idiot.

[

Just had a friend point out that this was the same tactic used to incite people over the Gun Registry and get the protesters out.  Unfortunately, there is always someone willing to protest and justify the Governments stance as a result.