Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Barbados ditched Her Majesty, Jamaica is up next. Won’t be much left of the Commonwealth over the next two decades.

Barbados could still remain a member of Commonwealth of Nations (members of the Commonwealth who no longer have QEII as head of state).

 

[Kirkhill]

We literally have the Russians on our Northern border. Our NATO buddies would be happier if we could take care of our own backyard first.

The Caribbean is a European creation. Let them take care of it.

So what you are saying is that there is enough work for us in our home hemisphere we don't have to go looking for trouble in Europe and Asia?

 

[JLB50]

Couldn't agree with you more.

We have a larger GDP than S Korea and Russia. That makes us number 9 in the world. We're roughly 15% ahead of Australia which is number 13.

It may be that our next door neighbour (who is #1 and has 11 times the GDP) gives us an inferiority complex. Or maybe we're led by a government that has tremendous risk aversion and lives in a Pearsonian 1957s fairyland that we are the world's peacekeepers. We played with that role a half century ago and it has become such a strong part of our mythology that it has completely blotted out our actual warfighting history of the War of 1812-4, the Fenian affair, the 1st and 2nd World Wars and Korea and the fact that that role no longer carries any water.

Whatever it is, its resulted in a government that won't do anything but pay lip service to defence and a defence bureaucracy that is more concerned about administrating itself than creating credible defence capabilities.

If we want to carry weight to the table we not only need an effective military but be seen on the world stage (and at the very least by our allies) to be dependable and capable. Sure we play a role in Latvia, but there are NATO countries much smaller than us and with a tiny fraction of our GDP who are doing just as much.

We are seen as cheapskates and dilletants by our allies. What really hurts though is that what we are being seen as is exactly what we are.

For quite a number of years now, Pearson’s peacekeeping role for Canada has been as out-of-date as the U.N. itself. With our GDP we should be able to afford a much larger, better equipped army, navy and air force. I love my wife dearly, but even she is still in the mindset of Canada taking on a peacekeeper role.

One problem is that the people in DND as well as leading generals and admirals never really complain too much. Yes, they say we need more people and equipment but in the end roll over and say we’ll accept whatever crumbs you throw our way. I just hope that the situation in Ukraine convinces a growing number of Canadians that a strong military is more important in our lives than it has been in decades.

Finally, I may be both older and somewhat naïve but I still believe that it can make a difference for Canadians to not only vote but also write letters to their politicians to express their views. I have regularly sent emails to the prime minister, deputy prime minister, local MP and others in recent months. Some of my thoughts were also quoted in Strong Secure Engaged.

 

[Czech_pivo]

So why not offer another pole for the Caribbean to coalesce around. This world is rapidly becoming a matter of who you can bring to the party with you. Why not a Canadian coalition?

It’s an interesting thought, but we’d be potentially kicking a bit of sand on Uncle Sam, do we really need to be doing that right now?
I mean, maybe if we upped the CAF to around 80-82k FT and say another 30-35k in actual deployable reserves, coupled with a 1.9-2.0% defence spending and a full ante on NORAD they’d tolerate us fishing in the Carib.
Until then, we need to get our kit squared away before we start talking about anything else.

 

[Kirkhill]

It’s an interesting thought, but we’d be potentially kicking a bit of sand on Uncle Sam, do we really need to be doing that right now?
I mean, maybe if we upped the CAF to around 80-82k FT and say another 30-35k in actual deployable reserves, coupled with a 1.9-2.0% defence spending and a full ante on NORAD they’d tolerate us fishing in the Carib.
Until then, we need to get our kit squared away before we start talking about anything else.

No, not kicking sand in Uncle Sam's face. Working with him the same way we are already working with Norad, Northcom and in Op Caribe. Perhaps there is a more local sale that can be made to the Canadian taxpayer.

 

[MilEME09]

No, not kicking sand in Uncle Sam's face. Working with him the same way we are already working with Norad, Northcom and in Op Caribe. Perhaps there is a more local sale that can be made to the Canadian taxpayer.

Convince the Turks and Caicos to become the 11th province? People might care then, air force and many would complain less come posting season too

 

[OldSolduer]

Convince the Turks and Caicos to become the 11th province? People might care then, air force and many would complain less come posting season too

Grenada or some other place put that forward about 30 some odd years ago

 

[Good2Golf]

Convince the Turks and Caicos to become the 11th province? People might care then, air force and many would complain less come posting season too

It was the other way around…T&C lobbied us to take them in as a protectorate and Canada said no formally in 2014 and nothing formal since then, as far as I can tell.

Pity.

 

[MilEME09]

It was the other way around…T&C lobbied us to take them in as a protectorate and Canada said no formally in 2014 and nothing formal since then, as far as I can tell.

Pity.

You'd think we would of gone for it to give the PM a new vacation home

 

[Prairie canuck]

I think Canada desperately needs to take care of our northern approaches first before we continue to boast and half commit as we have done in the last month. If you need to get to 2% GDP then 3 or 4 bases complete with naval and air capabilities will chew through billions pretty quick. However once established our southern neighbours shouldn't have to cover our asses. Developing northern warfare equipment and capabilities would place us in the niche where we should be. Right now we can't even be counted on to help fight or train in an arctic environment. I don't think Canada was invited to the land portion of NATO winter/arctic exercise in Norway. a winter exercise without Caanada!!!

 

[PPCLI Guy]

At this rate they're gonna kick us out like the US, the UK and Australia have.

Gonna?

 

[Good2Golf]

Gonna?

Yup.

To be ‘kicked out’ you have to be ‘in’ to begin with. Canada is a long way away from being invited to join 3EY…

 

[FJAG]

Yup.

To be ‘kicked out’ you have to be ‘in’ to begin with. Canada is a long way away from being invited to join 3EY…

And we probably won't be until we cut the psychological cord with China.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Financial, intellectual, political, familial, criminal, financial.....

 

[ballz]

Misfire...

 

[Good2Golf]

Misfire...

Whipping out huge….blanks…

 

[ballz]

RUMINT: DND (the MND's office) gave Freeland a fairly hefty proposal ~ several (something in excess of 60) Billion dollars ~ mostly for North American/Arctic defence ~ that was late coming in but that wasn't the problem. Very, very senior officials in Finance and TB and the PMO all agree that DND and Procurement and Supply cannot manage anything more than $6.1 Billion, and they are not sure they can even manage that.

The consensus amongst the bureaucratic grownups is that DND, especially, is totally ph_cked in so far as being able to actually put some muscle on to the bare bones of a "plan" is concerned. Procurement and Supply is said to be a) over-burdened, already; b) hide-bound; and c) technologically challenged.

Finance, it is suggested, will be happy to provide more money for defence when/IF both the procurement system and DND's management (civil and military) are reformed.

That's the smartest observation I've heard come out of the PMO in a long time.

Leslie doesn't pull any punches for his former party of choice..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512170692942475269

I'm not sure that criticism is solely aimed at the LPC... the DND has turned in billions of dollars they were given because of it's incompetence.

Maybe what's needed are slightly different rules for really big "nationally important" projects when validated operational requirements, politics, industrial strategies and big money all collide.

We certainly do... one would think GOFOs would have been lobbying for this and putting an easy political win in the ears of our overlords. They aren't up to that level of thinking. We promote transactional leaders, not transformational leaders. This is a problem with most big organizations but likely none more than the CAF.... because other organizations stop growing, shrink, or cease to exist when they fail to get creative thinkers to the top.

My sense is that the first validated operational requirements is a HUGE problem. I think that some senior officials in the centre (PMO, Finance and TB) think that our admirals and generals want to buy "toys for the boys" rather than what the country actually needs. My sense, again and it's just that, not a fact, is that Wayne Eyre and Frances Allen and all the rest are, simply, not trusted to act in a responsible, professional manner.

I have a generally positive view of Eyre (despite his stupid remarks about people "retreating into retirement" which make me question just how out of touch he is) and know nothing of Allen so I have a neutral opinion of her.

But whether he likes it or not, his predecessors, and his former peers, made this bed for him and now he's got to lie in.

If he feels like he isn't trusted, perhaps he could look inwardly at that and ask why fully trained and experienced MM Techs (formerly known as Sup Techs) in the Canadian Army aren't trusted to let out more than a $5000 competitive contract. Everyone talking about how we don't have enough people/capacity? Well guess what, we're doing it to ourselves when we've got a trade for this and we won't let them do what we trained them to do because we don't trust them.... because some idiots in Division and Army HQs think that a "contracting irregularity" is some huge institutional risk (it's not) and so we should just hamstring ourselves so we don't have to staff a fucking form to get signed.

And I know everyone thinks I've got a one-track mind about money, but a lot of all the problems everyone is complaining about comes back to the obscene state of the Finance trade and no one wants to get serious about it, so have fun with that.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

If he feels like he isn't trusted, perhaps he could look inwardly at that and ask why fully trained and experienced MM Techs (formerly known as Sup Techs) in the Canadian Army aren't trusted to let out more than a $5000 competitive contract. Everyone talking about how we don't have enough people/capacity? Well guess what, we're doing it to ourselves when we've got a trade for this and we won't let them do what we trained them to do because we don't trust them.... because some idiots in Division and Army HQs think that a "contracting irregularity" is some huge institutional risk (it's not) and so we should just hamstring ourselves so we don't have to staff a fucking form to get signed.

And I know everyone thinks I've got a one-track mind about money, but a lot of all the problems everyone is complaining about comes back to the obscene state of the Finance trade and no one wants to get serious about it, so have fun with that.

You know what's funny about this, my wife works for a Bank and her signing authority is now unlimited.

It was originally $1000.00 when she first started, then it gradually increased as she became more trusted.

It was $200,000 up until this past year and now it's unlimited. She doesn't even have a formal education in finance LOL other than through experience she has gained at work.

We make no sense

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Whipping out huge….blanks…

Bolt fully forward! Unseated Magazine!

 

[MilEME09]

That's the smartest observation I've heard come out of the PMO in a long time.



I'm not sure that criticism is solely aimed at the LPC... the DND has turned in billions of dollars they were given because of it's incompetence.



We certainly do... one would think GOFOs would have been lobbying for this and putting an easy political win in the ears of our overlords. They aren't up to that level of thinking. We promote transactional leaders, not transformational leaders. This is a problem with most big organizations but likely none more than the CAF.... because other organizations stop growing, shrink, or cease to exist when they fail to get creative thinkers to the top.



I have a generally positive view of Eyre (despite his stupid remarks about people "retreating into retirement" which make me question just how out of touch he is) and know nothing of Allen so I have a neutral opinion of her.

But whether he likes it or not, his predecessors, and his former peers, made this bed for him and now he's got to lie in.

If he feels like he isn't trusted, perhaps he could look inwardly at that and ask why fully trained and experienced MM Techs (formerly known as Sup Techs) in the Canadian Army aren't trusted to let out more than a $5000 competitive contract. Everyone talking about how we don't have enough people/capacity? Well guess what, we're doing it to ourselves when we've got a trade for this and we won't let them do what we trained them to do because we don't trust them.... because some idiots in Division and Army HQs think that a "contracting irregularity" is some huge institutional risk (it's not) and so we should just hamstring ourselves so we don't have to staff a fucking form to get signed.

And I know everyone thinks I've got a one-track mind about money, but a lot of all the problems everyone is complaining about comes back to the obscene state of the Finance trade and no one wants to get serious about it, so have fun with that.

Just to add to this, it may be $5000 but that us the account limit, any single transaction over $1000 has to go to brigade for authorization.

We very much do this to our selves, I would also argue our supply management system is outdated and control is too centralized. Perhaps we should ask the private sector to audit us and see where we can fund improvements?