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Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254
 
I'll take the flak and say the uncomfortable.

We don't need any immigrants period.
The Native North Americans would have been a big fan of your concept 200 years ago...

Process the ones that have applied legally, but close off applications.
Canada (like the US) has the need of immigrants, just not ones making their new found home unstable.

Make a concerted effort to find and deport all so called students who have overstayed their visas. Find and deport every person who came here illegally, through places like Roxham Road. The US will have to swallow some pride and forget bullying about any we return there as the last safe country. They can grab and deport them as we hand them over. We need to make things almost intolerable for those here illegally. A ban on coming here without a visa. No welfare, no health care, no shelter. We have to get back to where things were by placing Canadians first.
Make Canada Great Again?
Once we are, then we can start allowing legal immigration, with stringent rules this time. If you wish to come here, you need to have something to offer Canada. We have enough cab drivers and Amazon delivery people. We have to stop taking in people just because they have problems in their own country. Why are we taking in people from Gaza when not a single country in the ME will accept them? Because they know the trouble that will eventually raise its head.
Stop kowtowing to the UN and its children, like the UNHCR, who only issue progressive statements and programs, while taking billions in government donations and offering nothing except a white tent and a bag of rice in return. We can't fix anything while running around trying to innefficiently block the the myriad of holes in the dike. We need to get back down to a reasonable, manageable status before we fix things. If you are not contributing to Canada, you don't need to be here.
Then you are left with needing to intervene internationally - there is no cake and eat it too, in global affairs.
Now, I'm sure there is flaws in my plan and some may even take umbrage. Feel free to offer your own solutions for those that come here, illegally, with two wives and eight kids and then just sit back and collect the largesse of our welfare system, supplied by our taxes, without even learning one of the two official languages, getting a job or contributing to the society that is supporting them in their now comfortable lives while Canadians need to buy blue tarps and become new residents of the local trudeauvilles. While our newcomers get 4 star hotels, food, medical and clothing for free.

This just a man on the street rant and as such, likely has all the regular flaws, mistakes and misunderstanding, that these rants have.
I understand the premise behind your argument, but people will flee to stable countries, and you are going to need to take some in, or you are going to have folks actively trying to screw you as they see a Have ignoring a Have not country/people.

The solution to reducing refugees trying to flee unstable countries - is to stabilize them.
But everyone needs to know going in, that isn't not a simply election cycle issue - and it will take decades.

1) Wipe out the Armed Gangs, establish relief centers to attempt to stabilize the humanitarian situation.
It will be ugly, and a lot of people will die, but in the long run it is the most humane approach.
Pacification phase 6 months
Stability phase 18 months

2) Reeducate the citizenry, and rebuild infrastructure. This includes the creation of a new education system, a legal system, training a police force. It also requires ruthless anti-corruption activities.
This is a 15-20 year process that one cannot really shortcut or jump start in a country like Haiti.
 
This is a war of empire and democracies do them poorly.
The Native North Americans would have been a big fan of your concept 200 years ago...


Canada (like the US) has the need of immigrants, just not ones making their new found home unstable.


Make Canada Great Again?

Then you are left with needing to intervene internationally - there is no cake and eat it too, in global affairs.

I understand the premise behind your argument, but people will flee to stable countries, and you are going to need to take some in, or you are going to have folks actively trying to screw you as they see a Have ignoring a Have not country/people.

The solution to reducing refugees trying to flee unstable countries - is to stabilize them.
But everyone needs to know going in, that isn't not a simply election cycle issue - and it will take decades.

1) Wipe out the Armed Gangs, establish relief centers to attempt to stabilize the humanitarian situation.
It will be ugly, and a lot of people will die, but in the long run it is the most humane approach.
Pacification phase 6 months
Stability phase 18 months

2) Reeducate the citizenry, and rebuild infrastructure. This includes the creation of a new education system, a legal system, training a police force. It also requires ruthless anti-corruption activities.
This is a 15-20 year process that one cannot really shortcut or jump start in a country like Haiti.
Pacification more 18 months to 3 years, stabilisation phase 5 years
Then roughly 25 to 50 years to rebuild.
Where's Robert Debs Heinel when you need him?
 
1) Wipe out the Armed Gangs, establish relief centers to attempt to stabilize the humanitarian situation.
It will be ugly, and a lot of people will die, but in the long run it is the most humane approach.
Pacification phase 6 months
Stability phase 18 months

2) Reeducate the citizenry, and rebuild infrastructure. This includes the creation of a new education system, a legal system, training a police force. It also requires ruthless anti-corruption activities.
This is a 15-20 year process that one cannot really shortcut or jump start in a country like Haiti.
So, kind of like Germany post - 1945. Get rid the bad guys, stabilize the country, help it re-build and a create a friendly armed forces.

But you would still have to put boots on the ground.

May be take some of those Haitian refugees in Canada (and US?), arm them and train them in Urban Warfare and send them in, while providing support (eg logistical, air and intelligence support, etc.).
 
The solution to reducing refugees trying to flee unstable countries - is to stabilize them.
But everyone needs to know going in, that isn't not a simply election cycle issue - and it will take decades.

1) Wipe out the Armed Gangs, establish relief centers to attempt to stabilize the humanitarian situation.
It will be ugly, and a lot of people will die, but in the long run it is the most humane approach.
Pacification phase 6 months
Stability phase 18 months

2) Reeducate the citizenry, and rebuild infrastructure. This includes the creation of a new education system, a legal system, training a police force. It also requires ruthless anti-corruption activities.
This is a 15-20 year process that one cannot really shortcut or jump start in a country like Haiti.
I agree with this apart from one thing, your timelines are all about 3-4x too short.

To build a lasting peace you need to create a stable environment that outlasts the people who lived in the before times, and for their children to be on death's door. When you have young people who know nothing but peace, raised by people who know nothing but peace, then you might get a functioning society to run without outside intervention.

So, kind of like Germany post - 1945. Get rid the bad guys, stabilize the country, help it re-build and a create a friendly armed forces.
Germany had a functioning society before the war, and the Allies kept a lot of the former Nazi civil service and police around to maintain order. Haiti doesn't have a functioning society, and hasn't for at least 1-2 generations.
 
I agree with this apart from one thing, your timelines are all about 3-4x too short.

To build a lasting peace you need to create a stable environment that outlasts the people who lived in the before times, and for their children to be on death's door. When you have young people who know nothing but peace, raised by people who know nothing but peace, then you might get a functioning society to run without outside intervention.


Germany had a functioning society before the war, and the Allies kept a lot of the former Nazi civil service and police around to maintain order. Haiti doesn't have a functioning society, and hasn't for at least 1-2 generations.

Good point...
 
The Native North Americans would have been a big fan of your concept 200 years ago...


Canada (like the US) has the need of immigrants, just not ones making their new found home unstable.
Of course. I'm not advocating for a complete halt to all immigration. Only a temporary one to where we can reach stability before instituting new rules in order to address the problems. We're way over the limit to where we can provide the essentials of a normal life to everyone and everyday Canadians are suffering for it, to the benefit of those that aren't supposed to be here.
1) Wipe out the Armed Gangs, establish relief centers to attempt to stabilize the humanitarian situation.
It will be ugly, and a lot of people will die, but in the long run it is the most humane approach.
Pacification phase 6 months
Stability phase 18 months
That was somewhat my initial thoughts. Go in with an absolute overwhelming force and roll up the whole country, brutally and unfairly. I didn't think it would get much support though.
2) Reeducate the citizenry, and rebuild infrastructure. This includes the creation of a new education system, a legal system, training a police force. It also requires ruthless anti-corruption activities.
This is a 15-20 year process that one cannot really shortcut or jump start in a country like Haiti.
You mean like we did with Afghanistan. 😉 It will also take more than twenty years. At least two generations of college educated people, able to go into all levels of government and industry and drive the change. Unfortunately, we bring them here to be educated and they end up staying here, instead of going home and driving that change.
 
May be take some of those Haitian refugees in Canada (and US?), arm them and train them in Urban Warfare and send them in, while providing support (eg logistical, air and intelligence support, etc.).
Sounds an awful lot like a Bay of Pigs scenario. That didn't go so well.
 
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