Election 2015

[Good2Golf]

One thing that has stood out in this election has been the focus on the niqab and Islamic "terror" all out of proportion to the actual threat. The proposed "barbaric cultural practices" hotline is particularly disgusting. These are shades of true fascism, though no one will say that just yet. Now might be a good time for some self-examination as Canadians. Do we really want to live in a country where our government is elected on a platform of xenophobia?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-neil-macdonald-muslims-1.3257892

You beg the question by stating that the Government's platform is xenophobic.

I will qualify my response, by "un-begging the question" and say that I want to live in a country where this:

Shafia Trial Verdict: Honour Killing Jury Finds All Accused Guilty Of First-Degree Murder

...is UNACCEPATABLE, both to the Courts AND to Canadian society as a whole.

G2G

 

[Altair]

The fact that people are talking about the niqab can only be considered a win for the conservative party.

Honestly. How many women in Canada wear the niqab? As far as people can tell, only 2 have even tried to do the citizenship ceremony wearing one, out of over 600 000.

Perfect use of wedge politics by the conservative party. They were getting hammered by the Duffy Trial,  the recession, their long time in office, the refugee crisis, and with 2 weeks to go till election day all people are talking about is the niqab and the TPP.

The  CPC has remained the initiative and is now leading the discussion. It would be best if the LPC and NDP simply stopped talking about these two issues. Like when the CPC didn't even respond to trudeau's child care plan lest people start paying attention to it, the best thing for the opposition parties would be to try to switch the discussion back to topics that favor them. The niqab and TPP are not those issues.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Like when the CPC didn't even respond to trudeau's child care plan lest people start paying attention to it,

The Conservatives prefer giving cash to mothers who can then decide whether working is economical.  Trudeau wants to take away that cash.  Mulcair wants to give $15 daycare to millionaires. 

 

[Kilo_302]

You beg the question by stating that the Government's platform is xenophobic.

I will qualify my response, by "un-begging the question" and say that I want to live in a country where this:

Shafia Trial Verdict: Honour Killing Jury Finds All Accused Guilty Of First-Degree Murder

...is UNACCEPATABLE, both to the Courts AND to Canadian society as a whole.

G2G

Right, and it IS unacceptable. It's murder. Last I checked we didn't need any new laws around that, nor did we need a hotline to prevent it.

 

[PuckChaser]

The media won't let the NDP and LPC not talk about niqabs, because they're on the wrong side of public opinion. Much like the media wouldn't give up questions about Duffy ad naseum, LPC and NDP won't be able to shake it. Everyone ignored the LPC child care plan because it had absolutely no details, and was left to rot as a uncosted promise, much like every other uncosted promises tossed out on an election campaign.

If the NDP and LPC start to ignore the TPP, they will be signing their own death warrants for the election. Its a major issue for businesses and people across the country and across multiple sectors, good or bad. Pretending its not shows how out of touch they would be on national issues.

Also, the CPC didn't get "hammered" for their long time in office, that's never been an issue. You were grasping at straws trying to colour the niqab as a red herring much like half of your things the CPC was "hammered" about daily.

 

[Kirkhill]

Right, and it IS unacceptable. It's murder. Last I checked we didn't need any new laws around that, nor did we need a hotline to prevent it.

Tangential reference to the debate.  Murdering a homosexual is murder.  Does it require qualification as a hate crime?  The poor guy is dead.  He was killed.  A jury has found that the evidence supports the finding that somebody charged with the crime committed the crime.  End. 

Motive doesn't enter into it.  Does it?  "Let the deed shaw".

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

, nor did we need a hotline to prevent it.

Tell Crimestoppers that...........it's a MAJOR tool in the fight against those who act outside our acceptable conduct.

EDIT:Maybe if this was set up back in 2009 these poor souls might still be alive......

 

[George Wallace]

Tangential reference to the debate.  Murdering a homosexual is murder.  Does it require qualification as a hate crime?  The poor guy is dead.  He was killed.  A jury has found that the evidence supports the finding that somebody charged with the crime committed the crime.  End. 

Motive doesn't enter into it.  Does it?  "Let the deed shaw".

I might add, the murder of a woman encompasses murdered aboriginal women.  Yet that is an election issue.

 

[Altair]

The media won't let the NDP and LPC not talk about niqabs, because they're on the wrong side of public opinion. Much like the media wouldn't give up questions about Duffy ad naseum, LPC and NDP won't be able to shake it. Everyone ignored the LPC child care plan because it had absolutely no details, and was left to rot as a uncosted promise, much like every other uncosted promises tossed out on an election campaign.

If the NDP and LPC start to ignore the TPP, they will be signing their own death warrants for the election. Its a major issue for businesses and people across the country and across multiple sectors, good or bad. Pretending its not shows how out of touch they would be on national issues.

Also, the CPC didn't get "hammered" for their long time in office, that's never been an issue. You were grasping at straws trying to colour the niqab as a red herring much like half of your things the CPC was "hammered" about daily.

I'm giving credit where credit is due. Can one not compliment the CPC on a good strategy?

They needed to turn their campaign around and they have managed to do so. I don't like it, but it's the reality of the situation.

And sure, the media can continue to ask them about it, but a simple "we'll look into it further as more details become available" would stop the TPP from becoming too big an election issue. Especially since it appears most Canadians don't know what's in it. As for the niqab a simple, "I'll leave it to the courts to decide" might make it go away as a wedge issue. Just my take on it.

As for what the CPC were getting grilled on in the media before the niqab and TPP became issues, well, as I say so often, agree to disagree.

The Conservatives prefer giving cash to mothers who can then decide whether working is economical.  Trudeau wants to take away that cash.  Mulcair wants to give $15 daycare to millionaires.

If that's what you want to believe.

 

[George Wallace]

The fact that people are talking about the niqab can only be considered a win for the conservative party.

Perhaps it is a good sign.  If Canadians are concerned about the erosion of their culture by foreign cultures and are discussing it as an elections issue, then perhaps there may be an increase in voter turn out to assert their wishes.

 

[Altair]

Perhaps it is a good sign.  If Canadians are concerned about the erosion of their culture by foreign cultures and are discussing it as an elections issue, then perhaps there may be an increase in voter turn out to assert their wishes.

Or its sad that in a election with so much global turmoil,  economic uncertainty, three different takes on how best to run the economy and goverment, it's the niqab that might decide the election.

If 2 women out of over 600000 people turns out to be the most important issue facing this country...meh, might go back to not voting.

 

[Kilo_302]

I might add, the murder of a woman encompasses murdered aboriginal women.  Yet that is an election issue.

And it should be one. Over 1000 disappearances and murders of Aboriginal women since 1980 (with a questionable response by law enforcement in many cases) versus 15 confirmed "honour killings" and some of those were Sikh, not Muslim.

Again, it's what the government is choosing to emphasize that makes it so clear this is about a political strategy versus addressing a real issue.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

"The Conservatives prefer giving cash to mothers who can then decide whether working is economical.  Trudeau wants to take away that cash.  Mulcair wants to give $15 daycare to millionaires. "

If that's what you want to believe.

What is the error?

Hasn't Harper given hundreds of dollars per month per kid?  Hasn't Trudeau said he is going to reverse much of that money?  Has Mulcair said that rich people aren't going to get $15 daycare?  I think that paying people to look after their own kids is much cheaper than providing government funded daycare and a few less dysfunctional kids might be created.

 

[Altair]

What is the error?

Hasn't Harper given hundreds of dollars per month per kid?  Hasn't Trudeau said he is going to reverse much of that money?  Has Mulcair said that rich people aren't going to get $15 daycare?  I think that paying people to look after their own kids is much cheaper than providing government funded daycare and a few less dysfunctional kids might be created.

As I understand it, trudeau was going to stop giving childcare checks to people making over a certain amount and redistribute that money to everyone else. Also the closer one would be to that cutoff the less they would get.

Means tested.

 

[Lumber]

Privateer might have that individual on ignore as I do, as such, I miss everything Kilo says.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Or its sad that in a election with so much global turmoil,  economic uncertainty, three different takes on how best to run the economy and goverment, it's the niqab that might decide the election.

If 2 women out of over 600000 people turns out to be the most important issue facing this country...meh, might go back to not voting.

Part of that "global turmoil" is a war that some Islamists/Islamist organizations have declared on Canada and other members of the liberal, democratic, secular West (and East, too, come to that). The niqab imbroglio is just one manifestation of the fear and uncertainty that many, many Canadians feel about the Islamist threat and our (Canada's) reactions to it: our military response, our political/strategic response and the varying responses of the political parties.

The Syrian refugee crisis is the reverse of the niqab coin: we want to be open and generous to people in need, it's been about the response I would expect from most Canadians, BUT when we open our our hearts and our homeland and our wallets to unfortunate people we want them (the "others," the newcomers) to adapt themselves to our customs and traditions.

On a personal level, I agree pretty much with what GR66 said earlier, but the general public, 80+% of them anyway, if I've read the polls correctly, doesn't. The niqab is not, for them, about a woman's right to privacy, it is, rather, a threat to "our way of life."

 

[jollyjacktar]

Sorry, that went right over my head a light speed. 

 

[YZT580]

Similarly, the stripping of citizenship seems to be solely focused on Muslim terrorists versus terrorists of other persuasions. The law would also apply to an Irish nationalist who attacked an "orange day" parade (does such a thing still exist here?) in Toronto.  Or perhaps a Sikh stirring up troubles in Vancouver.  It just so happens that at this juncture Islamists are the major problem.

That's a false binary. It's not a choice between our government playing up racist fears and our nation falling "under Sharia Law" at all. But that's the narrative the government would have you believe, because this is their political strategy. Your statement is proof that it's working.

Speaking from personal knowledge, a prominent member of the Islamist clergy in the middle east told me that if they can obtain a 5% population level in any country they can effect serious change and at 15 to 20% they expect to be enable to initiate legal changes to implement Sharia.  Look no further than the no-go zones in Malmo, London, Brussels and Paris to see that this is accurate so no, the government is not blowing smoke.  I wish that was true.




[Edit to insert [ /quote ] code.  I had to go back and forth between what Kilo posted and what is posted here to figure out what initially looked like a malicious edit.    -  George]

 

[Edward Campbell]

There is an interesting Twitter exchange ongoing between Andrew MacDougall, a former senior aide to Stephen Harper, and Gerald Butts, the éminences grise to M Trudeau, on the topic to arms sales to Saudi Arabia, hypocrisy in foreign policy and even more hypocrisy on the campaign trail.

 

[Altair]

Part of that "global turmoil" is a war that some Islamists/Islamist organizations have declared on Canada and other members of the liberal, democratic, secular West (and East, too, come to that). The niqab imbroglio is just one manifestation of the fear and uncertainty that many, many Canadians feel about the Islamist threat and our (Canada's) reactions to it: our military response, our political/strategic response and the varying responses of the political parties.

The Syrian refugee crisis is the reverse of the niqab coin: we want to be open and generous to people in need, it's been about the response I would expect from most Canadians, BUT when we open our our hearts and our homeland and our wallets to unfortunate people we want them (the "others," the newcomers) to adapt themselves to our customs and traditions.

On a personal level, I agree pretty much with what GR66 said earlier, but the general public, 80+% of them anyway, if I've read the polls correctly, doesn't. The niqab is not, for them, about a woman's right to privacy, it is, rather, a threat to "our way of life."

If the niqab is seriously the most important thing Canadians care about, whether liberal, conservative or new democratic party, I honestly cannot be bothered to care about the political process.

There are so many issues facing canada, so many different takes on how best to approach them. Yet all anyone is talking about is a court case that effected 0.0000033333 percent of people taking a citizenship ceremony.