Do Canadians even care anymore?
- Thread starter Guardian
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As an interesting contrast to the original question about Canadians caring about the military, I was in Scotland last week when the announcement was made that the Black Watch were heading to Fallujah. I took a cab that night in Edinburgh, and the cabbie happened to be the father of a Black Watch soldier, so I thought it was natural we talked about the deployment. When I walked into the pub, I was rather surprised that everyone around the bar was talking about it. (OK, it was halftime of the football match, but they were still discussing military matters in a place where you wouldn't normally see that happen in Canada.) And it was not an isolated incident- for a few days, every pub I walked into (and there were a few, in Edinburgh and elsewhere) people were talking about the Black Watch. It was really impressive.
From what I've seen, the Canadian public cares more about the military than they did a decade ago, but there's still a long way to go.
(And for the record, the prevailing attitude was essentially: "The bloody Yanks have over 100,000 troops in Iraq, and they still can't clean up their own mess- they need the Scots to do it for them...")
From what I've seen, the Canadian public cares more about the military than they did a decade ago, but there's still a long way to go.
(And for the record, the prevailing attitude was essentially: "The bloody Yanks have over 100,000 troops in Iraq, and they still can't clean up their own mess- they need the Scots to do it for them...")
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During one ex I was on I was attached to an American field unit and had occasion to get into a discussion with an American Master-Seargent. We wound up talking about what he thought of the Canadian Forces attached to his unit at the time, after spending several weeks with us working in close proximity.
He said: (and I quote) "You guys are real crack troops. I don't remember ever working with troops from another country that were so switched on and ready to get the job done. You all are a pleasure to work with."
More often than not that is the reaction that we get when working with all other countries, not just the US. That American civvie was just trying to stir up trouble and, chances are, if there had been any US servicemen or women present that had worked with us, she would've been told to shut up...very probably by her own countrymen.
Slim
He said: (and I quote) "You guys are real crack troops. I don't remember ever working with troops from another country that were so switched on and ready to get the job done. You all are a pleasure to work with."
More often than not that is the reaction that we get when working with all other countries, not just the US. That American civvie was just trying to stir up trouble and, chances are, if there had been any US servicemen or women present that had worked with us, she would've been told to shut up...very probably by her own countrymen.
Slim
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NavyGrunt
Guest
Last EX I was on the americans were always coming out on our small boats because they loved how we operated. More with less and at a higher speed....we recieved a tonne of praise. Of course I have lots of good stuff to say about Uncle Sams boys as well....even if some Canucks dont like to give them credit.
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RHFC_CPL
Guest
Heh a good rant is always good...problem is with the way the general population seems to view us....we will be ranting alot more until they can see the troops and not the guys doing our paperwork. Anyone who wears the uniform sets an example for the CF. Last i checked there were dress and deportment regulations...maybe it is time to crack down on it. That and people shouldn't bitch about the army....if they think we have it good or what we do is easy...then jump on board and prove us wrong. I can guarantee you though....most of them wouldn't make it...even with this 'new army' and our lighter expectations. But until the time that every civy jumps on our band wagon and joins the army they have no right to say anything. Uninformed opinions are like assholes....everyone has one.
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RHFC_CPL said:
This was a cheap shot.
These "uninformed civilians" have as much right to say anything as we do - whether their opinion is informed or not is totally irrelevant. Protecting that "right," among others, is in fact our reason to wear the uniform in the first place. Furthermore, the "uninformed civilians" pay the taxes that pay our salaries and kit us out, and elect the political leaders who make the decisions about us. They have every right to comment.
The attitude you are displaying, ironically, will only contribute to the "ignorance" you find so abhorrent. Disparaging civilians only contributes to an us-vs-them mindset that will harm our efforts to have the public understand the challenges we face. We are the servants of the Canadian people and the state - a lack of respect on our part will be reciprocated. Why expect them to show an interest in us when we bite the hand that feeds us?
Don't make the erroneous assumption, either, that civilians cannot be informed about military matters because they haven't been in uniform. There are plenty of civilians who have fought hard for us in the public sphere without having any "time in," and who have done their homework and know what they are talking about. I'd like to keep them on our side, thank you very much. And just because someone's in uniform does not necessarily make them experts, either... We've all seen retired / former soldiers say some pretty silly things.
Bottom line, your post will serve to deter civilians from posting on this board. We're trying to encourage an open atmosphere here, in order to foster better relations with the public we serve. You aren't helping.
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dutchie
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Here, here Guardian. Here, here.
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RHFC_CPL
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True enough...true enough...I will admit I was quite ticked when I wrote that. I am just sick of people saying they would rather see us fight and die then Canadians lose our 'friendly ties' with the US. I think that is a load of bull...I hate the human mindset of 'lets just kill them all...make a huge parking lot and there we go.' That is the mind set I keep hearing....kill them all and be done with it?! Morals...in general people don't sit back and think about what they say...I can admit that to my last post...but the thing i notice is that the civs only really see us all grunged up, or those who are dressed slack. Maybe just by chance...i dunno. It seems they don't see the good side of the army or they wouldn't think this way...and telling us to go fight and die? Sure that is why we signed on the dotted line but you should be sad to see us go...not jump at the chance for us to go get shot and for what? Know the cause...fight for a cause and fight to save lives. I am a big believer in morals...I have no problem going and fighting and even dieing as long as I know that my death prevented someone elses. Thats why I signed on the dotted line. That is what I said to myself when I decided to enlist.
Ya but I will admit I was a little hot headed...and quick with my tongue...just had to get it out...but it is becaue I am sick of bad publicity all the time...I wish that more than just seniors would say. 'heh good job...keep it up.' Even kids say "look cool, an army guy!' But most others just complain about us. But then again thats not why we are in it. I guess for now our sense of pride an honour in what we do will only be shared between those in green...and those who lived when those before us were needed. Ours is not to question why, but to do and die.
Ya but I will admit I was a little hot headed...and quick with my tongue...just had to get it out...but it is becaue I am sick of bad publicity all the time...I wish that more than just seniors would say. 'heh good job...keep it up.' Even kids say "look cool, an army guy!' But most others just complain about us. But then again thats not why we are in it. I guess for now our sense of pride an honour in what we do will only be shared between those in green...and those who lived when those before us were needed. Ours is not to question why, but to do and die.
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RHFC: don't judge all Canadians by the rather inexperienced, narrow-minded crowd who often tend to exist in universities. Once they get some life under their belts, you'll be surprised how their opinions change. My experience (and those of some other posters here.....) has been that the average Canadian is proud of us, and does appreciate us, and does care about us-to a point. Our job, IMHO is not to look inwards and mutter in our beer about "F**** civvies" and tell each other how great we are, but instead get out there and do like the CLS says: Connect with Canadians.
If we don't tell our story, who will?
Cheers.
If we don't tell our story, who will?
Cheers.
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Ironically, I got a chance to tell our story last night!
Sure, it's only cable TV but ... at least it'll reach some insomniacs somewhere ... ha!
On the show "Fine Print", they were reviewing the book "The Bookseller of Kabul" by Asne Seierstad
(unfortunately, she was a no-show - recalled by her press agency to cover a developing story ...)
Thus, there was an audible sigh of relief when I showed up for the taping session (... chuckle).
If we can believe the show's hostess, her audience will be more than thrilled to hear our version of "live in Kabul" - to paraphrase her, it was an opportunity to tell Canadians about things they'd never otherwise see ... hmmm ... kinda like we've been discussing here, eh?
I'm also booked to speak to a local high school on Remembrance Day, and two Remembrance dinners.
Like we said, if you get the chance to tell Canadians our story, carpe diem!
Sure, it's only cable TV but ... at least it'll reach some insomniacs somewhere ... ha!
On the show "Fine Print", they were reviewing the book "The Bookseller of Kabul" by Asne Seierstad
(unfortunately, she was a no-show - recalled by her press agency to cover a developing story ...)
Thus, there was an audible sigh of relief when I showed up for the taping session (... chuckle).
If we can believe the show's hostess, her audience will be more than thrilled to hear our version of "live in Kabul" - to paraphrase her, it was an opportunity to tell Canadians about things they'd never otherwise see ... hmmm ... kinda like we've been discussing here, eh?
I'm also booked to speak to a local high school on Remembrance Day, and two Remembrance dinners.
Like we said, if you get the chance to tell Canadians our story, carpe diem!
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RHFC_CPL
Guest
Good stuff Bossi. An Pbi...it's too true. Cheers boyz and thanx for the words of encouragement...hopefully i'll run into these patriotic Canadian's one day.
Cheers boyz...wouldn't trade the friendships you make in the army for anything though...one thing is true...most civs don't get the comradeship shared between troops and units. It is kinda sad really.
L8r guyz and thanx all.
Cheers boyz...wouldn't trade the friendships you make in the army for anything though...one thing is true...most civs don't get the comradeship shared between troops and units. It is kinda sad really.
L8r guyz and thanx all.
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This is my rant post. What really irritates me is those people who refer to people serving their country in a derrogatory way. In high school, there was one Reservist who was always referred to as 'That Army Weirdo' or other, more obscene things that both degraded the individual and the Forces. In addition, on Rememberance Day when the school's reservists would be in dress uniform, they'd often be the source of the most harsh derrogatory comments, especially those wearing a Scottish-style uniforms (i.e. kilt). It's sickening to think that because someone's answered the call to serve their country, and puts their ass on the line to protect what this country stands for, they are degraded. I don't understand why this is. You would think those who have opted to take the challenge and honour of serving would receive the respect that they deserve.
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Rorer - it's one heckuva lot better now than it was in the 70s just after Viet Nam. We didn't wear our uniforms anywhere near civies if we didn't have to. One noteworthy prospective employer assumed we were all psychotic baby killers right off the bat. At least nowadays I have no problem going anywhere in uniform.
Especially after 9/11 we have good support from the public - now to turn that into dollars, manpower & equipment, that's the trick.
Especially after 9/11 we have good support from the public - now to turn that into dollars, manpower & equipment, that's the trick.
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